View Full Version : Screw Bikers
Sombeech
06-02-2008, 10:16 PM
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/6342/25458367453b461413d3ojr1.jpg
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,23803464-5012760,00.html
WTF?
Is that real or creative editing?
It's real, unfortunately. :frustrated:
Just noticed the link under the pic. Wow. One person killed too, that sucks. Drunk drivers are asses.
I'm sure that cop to their left was just as shocked :eek2: WTF, drunk or not. What a pic, in this case it is worth a thousand words.
Teleken
06-03-2008, 08:45 AM
Pinche boracho needs to get the beat down of the century.
I couldn't even look at that pic in the paper this morning then I remembered almost getting taken out by a guy running the left turn arrow Saturday and counted my lucky stars.
brookiekiller
06-03-2008, 08:51 AM
That is one of the most horrific things I have seen in a while.
That guy should be charged with murder.
Rev. Coyote
06-03-2008, 09:36 AM
Here's a letter to the editor of the Moab Times-Independent:
--------------------------
Firm action needed...
I have commuted to work on a bicycle more than a hundred times over the years without an accident
Axpence
06-03-2008, 10:08 AM
i think drunk driving should be a mandatory year community service/every year after that you are taxed 25% more than usual.
oh and they should all be thrown in jail.
and if you are a drunk driver reading this i hope you die, when you drive drunk your just spinning a loaded gun around firing at will, on the freeway.
Axpence
06-03-2008, 10:09 AM
check this out:
http://www2.oprah.com/tows/slide/200706 ... _101.jhtml
Randi
06-03-2008, 10:32 AM
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/6342/25458367453b461413d3ojr1.jpg
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,23803464-5012760,00.html
OMG this is horrible!
What an awful tragedy!
My son is thinking bout riding his bike to work to conserve gas (it's about 20 miles RT) and I'm worried about some moron running him off the road. We don't have a good bike lane system for a long portion of where he'll be riding, and I'm not sure if he'd agree to wear bright colors! Like a dayglo vest or something! He did convince his g/f (against her wishes) to wear a helmet when they did the test ride this weekend!
I've heard that some people deliberately run both bicyclists and motorcyclists off the road for kicks.
What kinda jerk would do something like that?
SAD!
sparker1
06-03-2008, 10:44 AM
My wife and I were biking alongside a highway once, when the trail became narrow and was closer to the road. Before we had an opportunity to turn around, a semi-truck approaching us veered in our direction. Rather than risk it, we bailed into the ditch and never knew if he would have hit us. I can't be certain it was intentional, but I always felt that it was. Maybe his idea was to scare us, not hit us. Well, it worked.
Ih8grvty
06-03-2008, 11:00 AM
people on bikes in some areas make me want to run them off the road.I have however never done so. Especially in the uintas! the ones that ride in the middle of the lane, not sliding over so I can pass them... those are the ones that i think about giving a friendly 'bump' on the rear tire.
IF bikes are going to be in places cars go, both parties need to give each other some respect.
I always see people bitching about cars when they ride bikes, If bikers (most are good about it but some :frustrated: ) used some common sense and stopped the attitude that they have the same rights as a car, and a few more inhabitants of the autos pulled their heads out, it would be hella better for both parties.
As to veering towards the bikes, you should keep some old fashioned jacks in your pocket, ditch the bike and toss them out in front of the car :naughty: If ya got time and some james bond fantasy, you could even rig the bike up to drop the jacks. Maybe sharpen the tops up a bit to ensure they pierce the tire. Kids have left em out and I promise they will pierce the foot on your skin, sharpen em up and they should do a tire reasonably well. Maybe make the car pull over so you can have a face to face about the 'scare'
people on bikes in some areas make me want to run them off the road
:lol8: :lol8: Keep your toys in a toy box, ehh :lol8: :lol8: :lol8:
TreeHugger
06-03-2008, 04:14 PM
... the ones that ride in the middle of the lane, not sliding over so I can pass them... those are the ones that i think about giving a friendly 'bump' on the rear tire.
If bikers (most are good about it but some :frustrated: ) used some common sense and stopped the attitude that they have the same rights as a car, ...
First of all, bikes do have the same rights as cars, by law. As such, they are expected to follow the same rules and laws of the road. And as such, drivers must treat them as a VEHICLE, meaning, if the road is too narrow, without a bike lane, for a car to fully fit, with three feet or more of a buffer to pass, the bike HAS THE RIGHT OF WAY in that lane and can, by law, take the full lane, the driver must wait behind and pass when it is clear.
DiscGo
06-03-2008, 04:32 PM
i think drunk driving should be a mandatory year community service/every year after that you are taxed 25% more than usual.
Some jail time on top of that, and I am totally with you.
if you are a drunk driver reading this i hope you die...
Yikes Alex. Where did I go wrong with you? I think we should hope that they stop, or they only inflict damage to themselves, etc. You always gotta take it to the next level :D
DiscGo
06-03-2008, 04:34 PM
That picture is crazy. I hope people were able to get away as scathed free as possible.
First of all, bikes do have the same rights as cars, by law. As such, they are expected to follow the same rules and laws of the road. And as such, drivers must treat them as a VEHICLE, meaning, if the road is too narrow, without a bike lane, for a car to fully fit, with three feet or more of a buffer to pass, the bike HAS THE RIGHT OF WAY in that lane and can, by law, take the full lane, the driver must wait behind and pass when it is clear.
TREEHUGGER- We agree 100%! This is awesome! I wonder if this means I am liberal now :D (J/K).
I believe that bikers should be protected to the fullest extent of the law, more people should try and ride when they can and if the only way people can be safe is to drive a giant SUV our gas prices will go through the rough and our environment will be go down quickly.
First of all, bikes do have the same rights as cars, by law. As such, they are expected to follow the same rules and laws of the road.
Instead of making this anti-vehicle, let's not leave out the bikes. The ones that do not stop at stop signs and the ones that feel just because they're wearing a fancy little helmet, rules of the road do not apply to them. I've seen tons of accidents where the cyclists were at fault of the accidents they were involved in. From kids that didn't know any better to arrogant adults that should have known better.
Obviously what I just said doesn't apply to the pic above.
TREEHUGGER- We agree 100%! This is awesome! I wonder if this means I am liberal now :D (J/K).
I think not :lol8:
TreeHugger
06-03-2008, 06:11 PM
First of all, bikes do have the same rights as cars, by law. As such, they are expected to follow the same rules and laws of the road.
Instead of making this anti-vehicle, let's not leave out the bikes. The ones that do not stop at stop signs and the ones that feel just because they're wearing a fancy little helmet, rules of the road do not apply to them. I've seen tons of accidents where the cyclists were at fault of the accidents they were involved in. From kids that didn't know any better to arrogant adults that should have known better.
:
Oh, I totally agree. As I said, the cyclists, as well, are expected to follow the same rules and laws of the road. I'm an avid cyclist and I have always maintained that we all need to be advocates for ourselves by being respectful to drivers and and the laws.
TreeHugger
06-03-2008, 06:13 PM
TREEHUGGER- We agree 100%! This is awesome! I wonder if this means I am liberal now :D (J/K).
:haha: I seriously doubt it, my friend, but it's a start! :wink:
Oh, I totally agree. As I said, the cyclists, as well, are expected to follow the same rules and laws of the road. I'm an avid cyclist and...
...I have always maintained that we all need to be advocates for ourselves by being respectful to drivers and and the laws.
Just throwing in that both sides need to pay attention :2thumbs: There's good and bad on two and four wheels :mrgreen:
I couldn't agree more with your last statement and I'm not even liberal :lol8:
BruteForce
06-03-2008, 07:07 PM
Oh, I totally agree. As I said, the cyclists, as well, are expected to follow the same rules and laws of the road. I'm an avid cyclist and I have always maintained that we all need to be advocates for ourselves by being respectful to drivers and and the laws.
Now if only the motorcyclists would do the same.
I chuckle (then growl) a bit everytime I see a bumper sticker that says "Watch out for Motorcycles".
Between my house and 6200 South & Redwood, almost every motorcyclists drives like there are no lanes, blinkers have never been invented and there's some bikini show down the street! :nono:
RugerShooter
06-03-2008, 08:19 PM
... the ones that ride in the middle of the lane, not sliding over so I can pass them... those are the ones that i think about giving a friendly 'bump' on the rear tire.
If bikers (most are good about it but some :frustrated: ) used some common sense and stopped the attitude that they have the same rights as a car, ...
First of all, bikes do have the same rights as cars, by law. As such, they are expected to follow the same rules and laws of the road. And as such, drivers must treat them as a VEHICLE, meaning, if the road is too narrow, without a bike lane, for a car to fully fit, with three feet or more of a buffer to pass, the bike HAS THE RIGHT OF WAY in that lane and can, by law, take the full lane, the driver must wait behind and pass when it is clear.
Bikes should NOT be legal on the road unless they are licensed and insured just like EVERY other vehicle on the road. Once you have to pay the same as I do for using the road then I will be more than happy to share it with you as long as you get the hell over when I am coming.
Bikes should NOT be legal on the road unless they are licensed and insured just like EVERY other vehicle on the road. Once you have to pay the same as I do for using the road then I will be more than happy to share it with you as long as you get the hell over when I am coming.
Huh, wow.... Good point :mrgreen: Interesting point :mrgreen:
DiscGo
06-03-2008, 09:02 PM
Bikes should NOT be legal on the road unless they are licensed and insured just like EVERY other vehicle on the road. Once you have to pay the same as I do for using the road then I will be more than happy to share it with you as long as you get the hell over when I am coming.
I doubt this is really an issue over which any of us can really disagree very strongly, but who knows :D.
I bike to work (usually anyway), I own two cars which are registered and I am fully insured in which ever car I am driving. I just think that riding my bike is good for me (both physically and financially) and is good for the environment, plus it is good for the other drivers because there is one less car on the road blocking you from the next stop light before it turns.
Wouldn't I then be entitled to have road shared with me while on my bike?
Wouldn't I then be entitled to have road shared with me while on my bike?
But, when you're at fault at an accident, what "B" brought up fits. You're still entitled, but having a little more responsibility if there are consequences to your actions. Why not be an insured bicyclist? Having a registered bicycle? After all, you are using the same roadways we are, for the same purposes :lol8:
ericchile
06-03-2008, 09:16 PM
... the ones that ride in the middle of the lane, not sliding over so I can pass them... those are the ones that i think about giving a friendly 'bump' on the rear tire.
If bikers (most are good about it but some :frustrated: ) used some common sense and stopped the attitude that they have the same rights as a car, ...
First of all, bikes do have the same rights as cars, by law. As such, they are expected to follow the same rules and laws of the road. And as such, drivers must treat them as a VEHICLE, meaning, if the road is too narrow, without a bike lane, for a car to fully fit, with three feet or more of a buffer to pass, the bike HAS THE RIGHT OF WAY in that lane and can, by law, take the full lane, the driver must wait behind and pass when it is clear.
Yes and all bikes need to obey all traffic laws. ...When was the last time you saw a bike stop at a stop sign?
Sombeech
06-03-2008, 09:18 PM
:lol8: Yeah, cyclists usually have cars that they've paid taxes and insurance on too.
RugerShooter
06-03-2008, 09:22 PM
Wouldn't I then be entitled to have road shared with me while on my bike?
I am just saying that if you are using your bicycle on the road for transportation that you should be Licensed & Insured.
:lol8: Yeah, cyclists usually have cars that they've paid taxes and insurance on too.
In that case I pay taxes & insurance on my Explorer, so why do I have to pay taxes & insurance on my Corolla?
and my Motor Home?
Just to let you know, I move over and share the road with bikes.
DiscGo
06-03-2008, 10:16 PM
Davis-
I think you actually make a good point about adding the bike like another car, but I don't think we as tax payers should have to pay to have our cars re-registred every year, so I can't be in favor of adding more taxes but I get the point you making.
Sombeech
06-03-2008, 10:34 PM
Well, I pay taxes on both my cars too. :cool2:
Most people you see road biking will only do it once or twice a week, and have as many automobiles as the average person.
The real difference is the gasoline tax. That's what's paying for the maintenance on the roads, where cyclists will have less impact.
On the other hand, cyclists can still get speeding tickets and traffic violations, since they are operating a vehicle.
stefan
06-03-2008, 10:56 PM
people on bikes in some areas make me want to run them off the road.I have however never done so. Especially in the uintas! the ones that ride in the middle of the lane, not sliding over so I can pass them... those are the ones that i think about giving a friendly 'bump' on the rear tire.
IF bikes are going to be in places cars go, both parties need to give each other some respect.
I always see people bitching about cars when they ride bikes, If bikers (most are good about it but some :frustrated: ) used some common sense and stopped the attitude that they have the same rights as a car
dude ... it's the uintas ... you should be enjoying the scenery :ne_nau:
friendly bump? imp of the perverse ...
abirken
06-03-2008, 11:18 PM
Man that's it! I'm buying a unicycle. :lol8:
since they are operating a vehicle.
A motor vehicle is what brings the registration on. Motorized down to a certain C.C. depending on your State. But, even though a bike is self-powered and a walker is foot powered, once they hit a roadway they are subjected to laws of safe travel. We're all supposed to work in harmony together :mrgreen:
oldno7
06-04-2008, 06:57 AM
The biggest problem with bikes on hiways is the speed difference. Until bikes can maintain a 45 mph minimum they will be hit and killed.
Lets see-- If I'm traveling down a mountain road and come around a blind curve and theres a biker in the middle of the lane and traffic coming in the other direction, I know what "my" best option is.(hint) a head-on is out of the question. :twisted:
Yep--pay more taxes and build your own roads. :fishing:
another question comes to mind: Is it better on you and your car to accelerate over a biker or slow your speed a little over a biker? What makes an easier clean up? I also think the faster your going the less likely you are to spill your beer. :popcorn:
bikers are insured by the liability limit on their homeowners/renters policy *usually
*Some restrictions apply. See your local insurance agent for more details. Only applies to people with said coverages. Jaxx accepts no responsibility for telling you whatever he wants with nothing to back it up, aka pulling it out of his a#@. But if you need this coverage give him a call!
moabfool
06-04-2008, 11:59 AM
people on bikes in some areas make me want to run them off the road.I have however never done so. Especially in the uintas! the ones that ride in the middle of the lane, not sliding over so I can pass them... those are the ones that i think about giving a friendly 'bump' on the rear tire.
IF bikes are going to be in places cars go, both parties need to give each other some respect.
I always see people bitching about cars when they ride bikes, If bikers (most are good about it but some :frustrated: ) used some common sense and stopped the attitude that they have the same rights as a car, and a few more inhabitants of the autos pulled their heads out, it would be hella better for both parties.
As to veering towards the bikes, you should keep some old fashioned jacks in your pocket, ditch the bike and toss them out in front of the car :naughty: If ya got time and some james bond fantasy, you could even rig the bike up to drop the jacks. Maybe sharpen the tops up a bit to ensure they pierce the tire. Kids have left em out and I promise they will pierce the foot on your skin, sharpen em up and they should do a tire reasonably well. Maybe make the car pull over so you can have a face to face about the 'scare'
Okay, first and foremost a person on a bicycle is called a "cyclist." "Bikers" wear leather and ride Harleys. Second, if you have problems with a cyclist there's a 99.9% chance it's because you're a crappy driver. I can count on one hand the number of frustrating encounters I've had with cyclists and I've been driving for over half my life. Contrast that with the fact that I have an unpleasant encounter with a motorist about once a week when I'm cycling. The finger of blame is pointed squarely at the motorists.
From what I hear the problem is worst in Utah where we have the most ignorant drivers on earth. Dave Zabreiske (?sp), who has won a stage or two of the Tour de France, had ridden all over the country. He's been hit by cars twice; both times in Utah.
I will agree, cyclists can be pretty demanding, but motorists can be too. I feel both parties could give a little and gain a lot.
moabfool
06-04-2008, 12:05 PM
Bikes should NOT be legal on the road unless they are licensed and insured just like EVERY other vehicle on the road. Once you have to pay the same as I do for using the road then I will be more than happy to share it with you as long as you get the hell over when I am coming.
That is one of the weakest arguments the anti-cyclists fling. The average recreational cyclist earns over $70k/year and owns more than one motor vehicle. The taxes are being paid as well as the insurance. Cyclists cause essencially no wear to the road, not nearly as much as even the smallest motor car.
moabfool
06-04-2008, 12:12 PM
Instead of making this anti-vehicle, let's not leave out the bikes. The ones that do not stop at stop signs and the ones that feel just because they're wearing a fancy little helmet, rules of the road do not apply to them. I've seen tons of accidents where the cyclists were at fault of the accidents they were involved in. From kids that didn't know any better to arrogant adults that should have known better.
I agree, cyclists should obey all traffic control signals. But what if they don't? Why do motorists get so angry about this, especially if it does nothing to slow them down? I think it's a jealousy issue more than anything. They wish they could weave through stopped traffic or bust through four-way stops. Get over it. If the cyclist gets hit they're the one who will pay the price. Whether the stone hits the glass or the glass hits the stone the result is the same.
BTW, do you see cyclists getting angry because there's a car out there somewhere doing 90 on the freeway (something illegal that they can't do & and has zero effect on their life)? I think not.
cachehiker
06-04-2008, 01:30 PM
Bikes should NOT be legal on the road unless they are licensed and insured just like EVERY other vehicle on the road. Once you have to pay the same as I do for using the road then I will be more than happy to share it with you as long as you get the hell over when I am coming.
Single electrical engineer with no dependents and two motor vehicles that get driven 3000 miles per year each. My bikes account for the remaining 5000 miles per year of vehicular travel. I don't know about everybody else here but I get RAPED on my taxes.
I'm therefore paying for more than my share of the roadways and my bike does less damage to it in a year than my car or truck does in a single day. My car or truck furthermore does less damage in a year than an overloaded 18-wheeler does in a single day.
cachehiker
06-04-2008, 01:33 PM
you should keep some old fashioned jacks in your pocket, ditch the bike and toss them out in front of the car
Like these?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001785YZ0?smid=A2Y624Y5TXKSKI&tag=yahoo-sg-20&linkCode=asn :naughty:
Ih8grvty
06-04-2008, 01:39 PM
First off...
From moabfool
"From what I hear the problem is worst in Utah where we have the most ignorant drivers on earth."
...
"I will agree, cyclists can be pretty demanding, but motorists can be too. I feel both parties could give a little and gain a lot."
Agreed and agreed, 100% on both.
However, I do enjoy the scenery in the uintas, and Im normally driving slower than most traffic anyways, especially at night or early morning.
That being said, if I get cars built up behind me I pull over and let them pass when I hit a safe place to do so, why am I being unreasonable to expect a cyclist to do the same? especially if iM towing something, as long as i keep the RPMs up Im fine, when we hit a particularly steep place whats the problem with pulling aside on your bike and letting me pass ? Alot of the road up there and other places you cant just ride to the side, I understand that, but when we hit a turn into a camp ground or a wide shoulder whats the problem with pulling off a bit so I can get past?
What bikers and cyclist alike (and BTW, I am one of both of them, I love riding my bike off road, dirt roads and mountain trails, and i love the motorcycle too) is that if you collide with a car, no matter what your rights are, you lose, period end of story. metal beats flesh and bones, you may be in the right, you may win in court, but you STILL lost.
The one thing I really hate about riding bikes (of either type) is the assholes in cars that i have to watch out for because they dont give a rats ass about me. I ride the motorcycle in traffic, but its no real fun, a pedal bike? I dont even consider it in any real traffic.
I think there is room for all of them on the road, IF people on all sides pull their heads from their asses.
an extra bit of a question, I have the leather,the tattoos all fo that, but dont ride a harley, in fact I hate harleys, Id never own one, Iv watched too many friends have to stop and adjust carbs and always fixing something when we could of been further down the road. Great looking bike, great sound and feel...WHEN its running.
since I dont own or ride a harley, am I still a biker?
Ih8grvty
06-04-2008, 01:42 PM
you should keep some old fashioned jacks in your pocket, ditch the bike and toss them out in front of the car
Like these?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001785YZ0?smid=A2Y624Y5TXKSKI&tag=yahoo-sg-20&linkCode=asn :naughty:
NO! I meant the old jacks the ones that kids play with with the rubber ball!
However, I only meant those because I did not know the ones you linked to where available, so hell yes! just exactly like those!
erial
06-04-2008, 02:03 PM
Below data is from 2006:
The above fatalities per 1,000,000 population by state in ascending order
State Resident Population (000) Pedalcyclist Fatalities Pedalcyclist Fatalities per Million Population
District of Columbia 582 0 0
North Dakota 636 0 0
Vermont 624 0 0
Wyoming 515 0 0
West Virginia 1,818 1 0.55
Massachusetts 6,437 6 0.93
Rhode Island 1,068 1 0.94
Mississippi 2,911 3 1.03
Pennsylvania 12,441 13 1.04
Arkansas 2,811 3 1.07
Washington 6,396 7 1.09
Nebraska 1,768 2 1.13
Tennessee 6,039 7 1.16
Kentucky 4,206 5 1.19
Missouri 5,843 7 1.2
Maryland 5,616 7 1.25
South Dakota 782 1 1.28
Idaho 1,466 2 1.36
New Jersey 8,725 12 1.38
Connecticut 3,505 5 1.43
Wisconsin 5,557 8 1.44
Ohio 11,478 17 1.48
Alaska 670 1 1.49
New Hampshire 1,315 2 1.52
Minnesota 5,167 8 1.55
Virginia 7,643 12 1.57
Iowa 2,982 5 1.68
Oklahoma 3,579 6 1.68
Illinois 12,832 25 1.95
Georgia 9,364 19 2.03
Colorado 4,753 10 2.1
Montana 945 2 2.12
Alabama 4599 10 2.17
Kansas 2,764 6 2.17
Texas 23,508 51 2.17
New York 19,306 45 2.33
North Carolina 8,857 21 2.37
Michigan 10,096 28 2.77
Maine 1,322 4 3.03
New Mexico 1,955 6 3.07
Hawaii 1,285 4 3.11
Indiana 6,314 21 3.33
South Carolina 4,321 16 3.7
Oregon 3,701 14 3.78
California 36,458 141 3.87
Utah 2,550 10 3.92
Nevada 2,496 10 4.01
Delaware 853 4 4.69
Arizona 6,166 29 4.7
Louisiana 4,288 24 5.6
Florida 18,090 132 7.3
stefan
06-04-2008, 02:17 PM
for easier reading ... here's an image of the table the data was copied from
PunchKing
06-04-2008, 02:30 PM
What is all this complaining for, if I ride my bike to work and get hit. I can sue right? This is America right? Isn't that what we do when there is an issue? If I get hit hard enough I either can't/won't have to work anymore. That is a good thing! Though I suppose the driver will probably sue me in return for emotional damage and the fact his new Lexus has a scratch on it. What a quandary?
moabfool
06-04-2008, 02:38 PM
What is all this complaining for, if I ride my bike to work and get hit. I can sue right? This is America right? Isn't that what we do when there is an issue? If I get hit hard enough I either can't/won't have to work anymore. That is a good thing! Though I suppose the driver will probably sue me in return for emotional damage and the fact his new Lexus has a scratch on it. What a quandary?
All true, but I'd rather be riding a bicycle than a wheel chair. YMMV.
moabfool
06-04-2008, 02:51 PM
...However, I do enjoy the scenery in the uintas, and Im normally driving slower than most traffic anyways, especially at night or early morning.
That being said, if I get cars built up behind me I pull over and let them pass when I hit a safe place to do so, why am I being unreasonable to expect a cyclist to do the same?
I agree, the cyclist should pull to the right and allow slower traffic to pass. In fact there is a new state law to that effect which cyclists, who have the same laws as motor vehicles with a few minor exceptions, are expected to abide by. But (there's always a big butt) cyclists have to be cautious about pulling over. My experience has taught me to assert my space well before an obstacle and well before a pullout ends. Motorists will judge the amount of space they'll give you based on where you're positioned when they first see you. They won't account for parked cars, gravel on the shoulder, a short pullout, etc.... Motorists' inattention/ lack of understanding is a big reason why cyclists seem so cocky. We (cyclists) have to assert our space to keep cars from running over us. I'd rather have a motorist be angry at me than ambivilent to my presence. If (s)he's angry at least (s)he saw me.
since I dont own or ride a harley, am I still a biker?
I painted with a broad stroke. I'd say that anyone that rides v-twin is a 'biker' (unless they're a RUB) but I might extend it to the BMW's and the 'Wings. :cool2: Whether it extends to the rice buring crotch rockets and the street legal trail bikes is up to the individual "biker." :ne_nau: Vespas and such are right out.
Ih8grvty
06-04-2008, 02:56 PM
The one bike I hate is any crotch rocket! Maybe Im just old? I like to sit back and enjoy the ride, I like roadsters, not hunched over and my knees in my chin, do 80 miles on one of them and I would tip over from being cramped and not being able to put my foot down! aches and pains!
I dont even count scooters as bikes.
Did you ever see anyone that looked cool driving a scooter?
Iv seen nerds on bikes before, but anyone on a scooter... they just look... so NOT cool. and half of the point of riding a bike is the cool factor.
cachehiker
06-04-2008, 03:28 PM
What is all this complaining for, if I ride my bike to work and get hit. I can sue right?
That's a reactive solution and not a proactive one. Everybody involved loses once there's an accident. A lawsuit is supposed to ensure one party doesn't lose everything when the other is more at fault.
Problems arise when potential punitive damages turn the courts into a veritable lottery and that's what is so very American about our court system. If they know you've got money, people will trip over a pine cone on your sidewalk and sue over it.
Actual damages: A bump on the head and $100 to get it looked at.
Convince a jury you're negligent and need to be punished: $20,000.
agree, cyclists should obey all traffic control signals. But what if they don't?
That's when they end up dead (or a vegetable) and for the motorist that struck them; lifetime of pain. Especially knowing it wasn't their fault and only if they left the house a minute earlier. Then, for some reason, everybody cries that it was the vehicles fault...The mentality of most people seeing a motorcycle, bicycle or pedestrian involved in an accident, it cannot be their fault. It's always the vehicles in their eyes. Sympathy over education.
If I get hit hard enough I either can't/won't have to work anymore.
All true, but I'd rather be riding a bicycle than a wheel chair. YMMV.
Spoken from somebody that still has use of all his God given senses. Take one away and ask yourself if the accident was worth it. Take two, take away feel.
X2 on that MoabFool :cool2:
Sombeech
06-04-2008, 07:59 PM
I bike on the road occasionally. I see road cyclists breaking the law all the time. They'll run every damned stop sign, even roll through some of the red lights.
It's just too dangerous for me to do it often.
abirken
06-04-2008, 08:31 PM
I bike on the road occasionally. I see road cyclists breaking the law all the time. They'll run every damned stop sign, even roll through some of the red lights.
It's just too dangerous for me to do it often.
Agree. I'll hit a road every now and then in order to stay on route-get back to the trail. But road biking isn't for me. Way too scarey. Afraid of the motorists to be honest.
In past experience with SOME road bikers I know (not all), most are out for a personal challenge. Like how quick they get from point A to point B and in how much time. Makes me wonder how focused they are on following road rules and their surroundings when they are in that state of euphoria from the ride? :ne_nau:
TreeHugger
06-04-2008, 08:54 PM
Instead of making this anti-vehicle, let's not leave out the bikes. The ones that do not stop at stop signs and the ones that feel just because they're wearing a fancy little helmet, rules of the road do not apply to them. I've seen tons of accidents where the cyclists were at fault of the accidents they were involved in. From kids that didn't know any better to arrogant adults that should have known better.
I agree, cyclists should obey all traffic control signals. But what if they don't? Why do motorists get so angry about this, especially if it does nothing to slow them down? I think it's a jealousy issue more than anything. They wish they could weave through stopped traffic or bust through four-way stops. Get over it. If the cyclist gets hit they're the one who will pay the price. Whether the stone hits the glass or the glass hits the stone the result is the same.
BTW, do you see cyclists getting angry because there's a car out there somewhere doing 90 on the freeway (something illegal that they can't do & and has zero effect on their life)? I think not.
MoabFool, I think these are very thought provoking questions and comments that no one is really addressing. I think they're great and spot on. People should be more angry and irritated at the drivers who are running lights and breaking laws and endangering their lives.
It's funny how different people's perceptions can be .... I road bike probably 75 miles a week, and I rarely see people breaking laws such as running red lights. I don't (usually), and most people I ride with and know who ride, don't (usually). Yeah, I run the occasional stop sign, after slowing to check for traffic so I dont get killed, but I'll bet most of you do that in your own cars and dont gripe about it.
but I'll bet most of you do that in your own cars and dont gripe about it.
I'm sure you own a car as well.
But, when two cars come together due to a stop sign violator, it's two cars and depending on the intersection, it could be a low impact crash. Mass and momentum win. Bike and vehicle coming together in an intersection, bike loses each and every time. Low impact or high impact; injury, serious physical injury or death will result.
Paying the price is the cyclist? Paying the price is that kid on the bike, even though he was at fault or the arrogant adult? Those are thought provoking? I'll give ya thought provoking. Have you seen a cyclist struck by a car? Have you seen a kid struck by a car? People think it's a little tap and everything is OK. BS! Head trauma, loss of limbs, paralysis, coma and then the mental trauma the operator of the vehicle and family of the loved one hit...Come on. You make it sound like getting hit is noble and you're some kind of super hero. Here's a little clip of reality, watch closely.
Remember, MASS WINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (GRAPHIC)
MASS WINS ***GRAPHIC***CLICK W/ CAUTION (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v654/Zukimog/?action=view¤t=nomoped.flv)
...
abirken
06-04-2008, 10:27 PM
MASS WINS ***GRAPHIC***CLICK W/ CAUTION[/b][/u][/url]
...
OUCH. I WAS WARNED BUT CURIOUS. Can I take it back now? :ne_nau:
[OUCH. I WAS WARNED BUT CURIOUS. Can I take it back now? :ne_nau:
Can't take reality back :mrgreen:
greyhair biker
06-04-2008, 11:54 PM
This is a hard subject to address because my feelings run both ways. I realize that despite the fact that I as a cyclist by law have certain rights that give me the right to travel on the road, I must as responsibly and yield to the LARGER MASS of the motorized vehicle. I can expect the law to protect me, the lawyers to fight for me and all people to 'start seeing bicycles' BUT I am the one who has to watch out for me. When I ride the road I have to assume a certain level of danger - anything can and will hurt me...it's what I teach to kids and older riders every chance I get. When I ride the road to and from work I take my life in my hands by riding I- 80....yes, I said interstate 80. WYDOT says it is legal, WYHP says it is legal and I can ride the shoulder anywhere I want in the state...if I am crazy enough to try it. On the same note, there are places in the Salt Lake valley that I wouldnt be caught riding on.
On the other argument, I as a motorist am not going to see every cyclist that 'assumes' that I can see him simply because I am looking in his general direction. I am intimately aware of people on bicycles and I don't see them all the time...and I hate it when a cyclist is arrogant enough to think he isnt going to get hurt if he swerves out in front of me.
Even though this article is mountain bike related, the legal issues it brings to bear DO NOT DIFFERENTIATE between road and mountain bike. Everyone suffers/pays the price in the end. If you get the chance the IMBA website is the best I have found in bicycle advocacy.
http://www.imba.com/resources/trail_issues/you_play_you_pay.html
moabfool
06-05-2008, 06:03 AM
Paying the price is the cyclist? Paying the price is that kid on the bike, even though he was at fault or the arrogant adult? Those are thought provoking? I'll give ya thought provoking. Have you seen a cyclist struck by a car? Have you seen a kid struck by a car? People think it's a little tap and everything is OK. BS! Head trauma, loss of limbs, paralysis, coma and then the mental trauma the operator of the vehicle and family of the loved one hit...Come on. You make it sound like getting hit is noble and you're some kind of super hero. Here's a little clip of reality, watch closely.
Okay, let's keep the discussion apples to apples. Comparing a kid on a $120 Huffy to an adult on a $2500+ carbon fiber roadie is like comparing sticks to diamonds. There's huge difference between the kid and the adult, the most major being the ability to reason through and accept consequences. If I hit a kid, even if it was the kid's fault, I would feel horrible (if that even begins to describe it). Adults are supposed to watch out for all children and keep them safe. If I hit an adult I know I'd feel bad, but not on nearly the scale of hitting the kid especially if the cyclist/pedestrian were at fault, mostly because adults are supposed to take care of themselves (that includes not hitting cyclists while blabing on a cell phone).
Of course there are some adults that need looking after too. I don't know how many people I've pulled back out of an intersection just after they've stepped in front of a speeding bus or taxi. Yah, I've put in some time in the NYC. It's where I learned how to ride a bicycle on the road. BTW, I felt way safer riding in NYC than I do in Utah.
I raised this question on KSL and got "troll"ed like crazy. I'm making no judgement here, but ask yourself this: Which is worse, a parent without their child or a child without their parent? Food for thought.
A confession: I roll through stop signs. I've come close to being hit once and I totally deserved it. I thought it was a 4-way stop and I would've had the right-of-way anyway, but it wasn't and I didn't. Luckily, both the motorist and I were quick and never would've hit had the other not stopped, but we both did stop. Still, it was too close for comfort. To the motorist's credit he was very polite about it and let me think about what I'd done without saying anything to me; a far worse punishment than a toungue lashing to be sure. I'd bet he's a cyclist too.
I always stop when another vehicle has the right-of-way and I always wait for stop lights. It's frustrating, but I don't see all cyclists doing that.
moabfool
06-05-2008, 06:15 AM
One more thing, I hit a car when I was just learning how to ride a bike. The neighbor brought me home after I side-swiped him while he was pulling out of his driveway. Of course nobody wore helmets back then and I got my bell rung pretty good (might explain a few things about me :haha: ). It must've been a pretty good shot because my dad said I looked kinda dazed. I don't remember ever hitting his car or being escorted home, and I remember most of my good wrecks from that age. A split-second earlier and I would've been under the tires. My fault, but I can't imagine how that poor man would've felt. My point: as a child I had no concept of the danger. Heck, as a teen driver I had no concept of the danger 'till I got rear-ended and got whiplash. Now, as an adult, I can assume risk.
Ih8grvty
06-05-2008, 07:26 AM
MASS WINS ***GRAPHIC***CLICK W/ CAUTION[/b][/u][/url]
...
OUCH. I WAS WARNED BUT CURIOUS. Can I take it back now? :ne_nau:
I only clicked that because of you!
I had no idea that is what 6 quarts of blood looked like all at once.
fourtycal
06-05-2008, 08:24 AM
Great read :popcorn:
Pedal bikes are here to stay, deal with it.
I just wish cyclers that are being stupid (ride against traffic on their stolen huffy's :frustrated:,) would get ticketed or spontaneously combust, it just makes us all look bad.
Maybe we should have to display our Cycling merit badge to ride with traffic :haha:
Gixxer
06-05-2008, 09:13 AM
First of all, bikes do have the same rights as cars, by law. As such, they are expected to follow the same rules and laws of the road. And as such, drivers must treat them as a VEHICLE, meaning, if the road is too narrow, without a bike lane, for a car to fully fit, with three feet or more of a buffer to pass, the bike HAS THE RIGHT OF WAY in that lane and can, by law, take the full lane, the driver must wait behind and pass when it is clear.
so how would you handle a car driving 6mph in a 40mph zone up a narrow canyon road (exercising their rights, by law)
for me, it comes down to consideration.......and there are a**holes in cars, and a**holes on bikes
there are a**holes in cars, and a**holes on bikes
/thread
moabfool
06-05-2008, 11:37 AM
so how would you handle a car driving 6mph in a 40mph zone up a narrow canyon road (exercising their rights, by law)
It's happened to me plenty of times. I pedal right past them.
Seriously though, I get stuck behind slowpokes all the time. I usually wait patiently for a while, but I get chapped when they don't pull over when they come to a pullout. At that point they are breaking the law and are no longer within their rights. It happens about every time I drive up the switchbacks below the Mt. Carmel Tunnel. Some yahoo is on vacation taking his sweet time rubber necking at the scenery while totally oblivious that there's a string of cars piled up behind them. I'm usually trying to get to a trailhead up on the East Mesa before it's nasty hot outside. My tyrade usually goes like this: "HEY MORON! PULL OVER! I know you're on vacation, but I'm still trying to get to mine." It never works because they have their windows rolled up, but I feel better.
Here are the major differences between being stuck behind a slow car and being stuck behind a slow cyclist:
1. The motorist is capable of going faster but chooses to be annoyingly slow.
2. Bicycles aren't 5 to 8 feet wide.
3. a.The cyclist knows you're there and is keeping you from passing on purpose. He'll get back over when it's safe.
b. The motorist is conducting a visual inspection of his colon and doesn't have a clue that you're even there.
If you're riding your JXR just wait 15 seconds for an opening and turn your wrist. You'll be past me in 0.6 seconds. Just remember to abide by the 3-foot rule. When I ride up Big Cottonwood I'm always amazed how a Super Duty Ford towing a trailer can give me three feet of space but some kid on a motorcycle can't. I watch for motorcycles because I bicycle. It would be nice to get the same in return.
TreeHugger
06-05-2008, 02:39 PM
but I'll bet most of you do that in your own cars and dont gripe about it.
I'm sure you own a car as well.
But, when two cars come together due to a stop sign violator, it's two cars and depending on the intersection, it could be a low impact crash. Mass and momentum win. Bike and vehicle coming together in an intersection, bike loses each and every time. Low impact or high impact; injury, serious physical injury or death will result.
Paying the price is the cyclist? Paying the price is that kid on the bike, even though he was at fault or the arrogant adult? Those are thought provoking? I'll give ya thought provoking. Have you seen a cyclist struck by a car? Have you seen a kid struck by a car? People think it's a little tap and everything is OK. BS! Head trauma, loss of limbs, paralysis, coma and then the mental trauma the operator of the vehicle and family of the loved one hit...Come on. You make it sound like getting hit is noble and you're some kind of super hero. Here's a little clip of reality, watch closely.
Remember, MASS WINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (GRAPHIC)
MASS WINS ***GRAPHIC***CLICK W/ CAUTION (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v654/Zukimog/?action=view¤t=nomoped.flv)
...
Well, I'm not really sure what I said that caused you to go off on this rant. , it really has nothing to do with what I said. My point, as was Moabfools (I think) is that drivers get so angry with cyclists but why? when they do the same freakin' thing all the time. I did NOT say it's OK to globally run stop signs whenever one feels like it as if they dont apply to them, I did NOT advocate for creamin' little kids on their bicycles and I did NOT say a little tap is OK. The thought provoking part of MoabFool's post centers on the question of why do drivers get so upset about cyclists? I'm sure every cyclist that goes out on the road is hoping and assuming they will come home that night. I for one, take every precaution to ensure my safe return as I'm sure most others do as well.
erial
06-06-2008, 11:58 AM
get off the bike and go for a hike. Unless you have a cold:
Somerset ravine deaths are ruled accidental
Friday, June 06, 2008
By Jim McKinnon, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
SOMERSET, Pa. -- With two dead bodies lying in ravines below Beam Rocks two months ago, state police believed they had a crime scene in Laurel Summit State Park.
"Personally," state police Lt. Brad Shields said in an interview March 31, "I find it hard to believe that two people fell off that cliff there by accident."
However, on a rocky path almost 40 feet above the spot where Christopher Cardy's remains were found, investigators discovered evidence to the contrary. That physical evidence, combined with toxicology reports from Mr. Cardy and companion Sara Baum that showed they both had substantial amounts of antihistamine in their systems, led police to conclude yesterday that their deaths were accidental.
Among the rocks above, police found a small pool of blood and a pair of broken eyeglasses that belonged to Ms. Baum. Blood droplets led to a spot at the edge of the path where it appeared someone had lost his or her footing.
Police also found a red sweatshirt, apparently used to wipe away blood from the injured Ms. Baum. Ms. Baum's body was found in a crevice 16 feet, 9 inches below the path.
Evidence also suggested someone, believed to have been Mr. Cardy, had made his way from the path to Ms. Baum.
Then, more signs of problem footing were found near her body. Police believe Mr. Cardy fell from there to his death in a ravine at the bottom of Beam Rocks.
Mr. Cardy, 25, of Ligonier Borough, and Ms. Baum, 24, of Greensburg, had gone to the park March 29 on a day trip. The two were close friends, having known each other since their teen years. They once dated and split up, but they remained close.
Ms. Baum, who previously had been married, had a son who is in the toddler age range, police said.
In the early evening of March 29, video surveillance at a nearby store showed the pair buying soft drinks, Trooper Scott Mackanick, the lead investigator on the case, said at a news conference yesterday at the state police barracks in Somerset.
In the video, Mr. Cardy was seen wearing the red sweatshirt that later was found at the top of the scene.
State police interviewed dozens of the couple's friends and witnesses who saw them park her car in the Beam Rocks lot and head toward the trails at about 5:30 p.m.
By 6 p.m., police learned days later, the eyeglasses, sweatshirt and blood evidence were discovered by a hiker. No report was made that day of the finding, but Trooper Mackanick and Cpl. Ed Thomas said the articles and timing pointed to the time of the accidental falls.
Mr. Cardy's mother, Coleen Cardy, had been told by her son that he and Ms. Baum were headed to the state park.
When he did not return home overnight, Mrs. Cardy became concerned. She drove to Beam Rocks the following morning. She found Ms. Baum's car in the parking lot, and he was reported missing shortly afterward, at 10:25 a.m. March 30.
An autopsy, done on both victims at Conemaugh Memorial Hospital, showed that both had ingested relatively large quantities of chlorpheniramine. It is a potent antihistamine, commonly found in cough syrup, and it causes drowsiness. The drug can be prescribed, and it is found in over-the-counter medications, police said.
Ms. Baum had four times the normal dosage in her system. Mr. Cardy had 30 times the normal dosage, police said.
In that state, police said, their bearings could have been affected by their use of the drug.
No alcohol was found in either of their remains, Trooper Mackanick said.
Some pills, containing the drug Coracidin, were found, but there was no evidence either of them had used them, the trooper said.
The autopsy showed Ms. Baum died of a fractured skull, likely caused by the fall into the crevice.
Mr. Cardy died of a broken neck.
greyhair biker
06-06-2008, 12:54 PM
I like a good read the same as the next guy and I dont want to ruffle any feathers here but arent we getting a little off the beam here? If I want to ride on the road I have to assume that odds are not in my favor. I CANNOT compete with a vehicle NO MATTER what I do. I really do sympathize with anyone who gets hurt on their bike and drivers could do a much better job at being courteous/seeing bikers/etc. We can't be protected from everything that comes at us when we leave the 'safety' of our home. If I am riding off road and I run across a herd of ANTELOPE chances are I am gonna get run over by them if I try to pace them/ride up to them/move my body....yes you can laugh but you know it's true. I can get all upset and sue the BLM for not using better land management and keeping a tighter reign on the herds...I can ride with a gun and take potshots at them when I see them getting too close for comfort but what have I gained really? Satisfaction? I am still hurt...I still have to go through the healing process, if the antelope didn't run me through with its prongs and kill me on the spot.
I use the animal scenario for a very small bit of humor for those who missed that, but my point being I am going to ride anywhere and everywhere I can because it's what I love to do and no amount of "awareness" raised is going to stop me...except for MY OWN COMMON SENSE...so odds are I'm gonna get hurt by some damn neglegent motorist and I have to be on my toes at all times...and that isn't gonna save me either if odds are not stacked in my favor...
...I'm ranting people and I apologize if I have caused bad feelings. I am a bicycle advocate through and through - please dont get me wrong but odds are not in our favor simply by just stepping out of our homes and I refuse to live my life in fear and never leave home :mrgreen:
PunchKing
06-06-2008, 01:18 PM
Sex, Drugs, and Rock n' Roll!
Well, I'm not really sure what I said that caused you to go off on this rant.
Not really you, the mentality of some that getting hit would be OK, like cyclists are "Superman". If you never seen a vehicle vs. cyclists, you have no idea how bad things get. 4-5000lb vehicle vs. 200lbs or so...math is right there for ya. Throw in some speed, done deal. Superman was even paralyzed :haha:
So, the rant was stemmed by ignorance I guess. Apples to apples, getting hit is getting hit. Kid or adult, the person who was not at fault who hit the cyclist and killed them, it doesn't make it easy. You still took someone's life and if not prepared for something like that, it haunts you for the rest of your life.
Everybody's goal is to get home safely, no matter what our mode of transportation is. There are ignorant @$$holes in every form of transportation. This is something shared by everybody, not just people belted in.
COUNTRYBOY
06-11-2008, 08:54 AM
What a thread. I deal with cyclists all the time down here. Most of you have traveled SR- 9 from Hurricane to Zion? It is a 2 lane 65 MPH highway with 2 feet of pavement between the white line and the edge. When it is busy at the Park, it can be almost bumper to bumper. There are always cyclists on this road. One or two is no big deal. But there are orginized tours that have groups of 20-30 riders out on this road. When these guys come through it gets dangerous for all of us. The lanes are so narrow that you have to go into oncoming traffic to give them enough room. There are corners on that road that makes it dangerous. A couple months ago there was a large endurance race that went up 9 to Zion and back, there were several hundred riders on the road going both directions. No one in town knew about it, and we saw no police there for safety. That being said, I am not agianst cyclists on the road ways. I myself would like to ride to work if it wasn't so far. I would like to see paths next to the road for the cyclists and runners (lots of them in the early mornings too), like they have north of St. George all the way Winchester Hills.
I think everyone needs to be more considerate. Cyclists and motorists need to share the road.
sparker1
06-11-2008, 11:14 AM
Try driving the highways around Gunnison and Crested Butte (Colorado) during their annual bike fest. Hundreds of cyclists on roads with too little room for them. Everyone seems to try hard to accommodate them, so I guess it works out OK.
Sombeech
08-15-2012, 07:03 PM
related:
http://i.imgur.com/T9dyc.gif
tallsteve
08-16-2012, 01:41 PM
That's insane! Where'd that come from?
Sombeech
08-16-2012, 03:32 PM
Not sure, just saw it floating out on the interwebs.
That's insane! Where'd that come from?
Brazil.... http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/news-video/man-drives-car-into-bicycle-protesters/article602988/
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