Needles Outpost Campground near entrance of Needles District

[gardentek]

Has anybody stayed there and had problems with the owners?

[JP]

Howdy & Welcome :2thumbs:

[denaliguide]

i have never stayed there but have stopped by for breakfast many times. gary and tracie have always been very friendly and helpful with any questions. whether they remember me specifically or not i would consider them friends.

[moab mark]

Stayed there years ago and had a great time. But last year came pulling in with my enclosed jeep trailer and truck, I needed gas and the lady came out and would not sell me any. She felt that I was going to fast down her road. I felt I was going extremely slow due to the fact I was pulling a trailer. Needless to say it almost literally came to a fight. I needed gas to get back to moab and eventually she gave in. So maybe she was just having a bad day but I have heard of other people having trouble with her?? But the showers sure feel good after a long day jeeping. So drive slow on her road!!!!!!
For what it's worth.
Mark

[R]

We tried to have lunch there one day in November 2002. They refused to serve us, saying we weren't spending enough money to make it worth it to them. Hey, it's their business, and they are free to run it however they want, but I've never been back and won't ever go back.

[DiscGo]

We went the other day and it was packed. So if you want to camp there, go early.

[Sombeech]

Welcome, gardentek! I'll go ahead and move this to the backpacking and camping section for you. :cool2:

[gardentek]

We also had heard about her erratic behavior but didn't think anyone could be that bad and still be in business. We had also heard that they were lovely people and very congenial. She was very nice to us when we arrived. We just stayed there this past weekend. It turned into a nightmare! It was the worst camping experience we have ever had! She had actually given us permission to have an extra person and car in our campsite for just one night and then the next morning came flying down to our site and accused us of sneaking in people and cars. She screamed at us and called us all kind of names - said we weren't following the rules. We stayed 3 nights and she charged us $280 for "impact and service fees".
Not even the worst offender in a campsite deserves that kind of insulting and humiliating treatment.
I got a complaint form from the Needles Visitor Center and when I drove back to the campground she flagged me down. She told us to get out of her campground. I showed her the form I had obtained and she lunged through my car window and grabbed for the paper, ripping it out of my hand. We are filing a formal complaint to the company that owns the land - they indicated they were already investigating other complaints.

If you choose to stay there, be on your best behavior. As for us, we will never return! It's a nice campground and having the showers was wonderful but we would rather see someone a little more grounded and rational running the campground. If anyone would like to file a grievance let me know and I will get you the information.

[Mooseman70]

Maybe she's not playing with a full deck of cards? :ne_nau: To go from treating you nicely one minute to a raving lunatic the next reeks of "ain't just right" in the head.

Sorry to hear about your nightmarish experience.

[shlingdawg]

I think a media hidden camera team needs to do a story on these people. Friggin Nazi's. :frustrated:

[ExpUt]

Wow, VERY akin to my experience.

From my website:
[i]"Gassing up at The Needles Outpost is where things got crazy, try and stay with me here. We pulled into the gas station, apparently a bit too fast for the owners liking. She refused to sell us fuel, she

[gardentek]

Well, I'm glad to hear we weren't alone. There was much more to our story..... she seemed very put out that my adult children ordered hamburgers and almost didn't serve them. We also observed her drinking during two of our several incidents. When she asked me to leave the campground, I refused, saying that she had said we could stay Sunday night. She called me a liar! I still refused and she said she would call the police. I said "bring them on". The County Sheriff was apparently called (I talked to him yesterday about filing assault charges against her) but my husband was asked by a NPS Ranger that was there to leave and just keep the peace. We only left out of respect for the Park Service.

Is it ok if I copy your comments and send in with my formal complaint? It would be even better if you would write up your experience and send to the land trust that that owns the land. They told me that if there were enough complaints they would not renew their lease. Then we could get some decent people in there to run the campground.

I know I sound vindictive but, even now 3 days later, we are all so upset about what she put us through.

She charged our credit card twice and we are disputing her charges. Before we left she refused to give us an itemized receipt of our charges.

Sorry for venting so much!

We had a great time in the park. Conquered Elephant Hill with our Nissan Xterra. It was awesome!

[ExpUt]

Feel free to use my comments...

She must have the Sheriff on speed dial, she threatened to call him no less than a dozen time if we didn't immediately turn around and get off her property.

Please PM the owners info if you would, while I don't think I'm interested in a formal complaint, I think some of the others in our group might.

[moab mark]

You can use my experience. It's to bad, but I feel better that I am not the only one that has had trouble there. If we could get them removed I will send in a report. We do elephant hill alot coming from moab and returning to moab the same day. Those who do not trailer their jeeps need gas sometimes to get back to town. We have started hauling a few cans in my enclosed trailer because we can't trust the nazi lady that we will be able to get fuel. I have wanted to do the Lockhart Basin trail but have not dared because you would definately need fuel and well we all have found how that might go. If you have a outpost store, the store has to be reliable if you are banking on it and this one is not. Oh we also have a story about the shower valve breaking one time but that's another story. Lets just say we loaded in our jeeps and got the #$%% out of dodge before she got to the showers.
Mark

[gardentek]

Re: Needles Outpost
Gary & Tracey Napoleone

Utah School and Institutional Trust Lands Administration
217 East Center
Suite 230
Moab, UT 84532

If you wouldn't mind, could you email me a copy of the letter you send? I am going to ask the Administration Director to let me know if and when any action is taken.

My email is pac53@comcast.com

When Gary came to our site to write down our license plate number for the County Sheriff, I appealed to his common sense and he said we were lying about the number of people we had in the site. I told him I could give him a list of all our children but he wouldn't take it.

I told him that he had "messed with the wrong person" because I am known for my tenacity in pursuing what I think is an injustice. One of my better successes was with the Social Security Administration who had been telling my aunt for 11 years that she didn't qualify for Medicare. I not only got her Medicare benefits, she also now receives a monthly check of $1000. It took me many hours of phone work but I succeeded.

I am going to pursue this situation on behalf of all those who have been wronged by these people.

How do I get all this feedback and information on the other forums, particularly the "off-road 4x4 forum" so we can garner as much support as we can to keep this lady from harrassing, humiliating, & insulting those whom she should be "serving."

Thanks :2thumbs:

[finnegan]

We have stayed at the Outpost a couple of times in the past, without incident, but our stay there on May 1-2, 2010 was simply bizarre. When we checked in, Tracey was all smiles and smelled very strongly of alcohol. She accepted our $20 bill, told us essentially to pick any empty spot, and warned us that one camper had two dogs that might bark, but she failed to write down any information about us or our vehicle. I was remiss in not insisting on a receipt, which may have come in handy later on, but I was tired and just wanted to stop for the day. We had met Tracey before and she had been very friendly, talking with us at great length about Bozeman, Montana, so I didn't feel uncomfortable about the informality of the check-in process.

As my wife was still recovering from a hip replacement and found it difficult to walk far, we selected the spot closest to the bathrooms. The bathrooms themselves were very clean, but we did receive an unfortunate odor every time a breeze blew from the west.

The next morning, we drove off at around 7:00 a.m. to seek a spot in the Park. We were successful but couldn’t move in until after the party occupying it departed, so we returned to the Needles Outpost at around 8:30 a.m. to make coffee and breakfast. We didn’t want to stay near the bathroom because of the odor, so we drove "slowly" on the outer road to the end of the campground and stopped at the last spot, where the sun was about to appear over the rocks. As Tracey had not assigned us a spot, and there were several spots free, we didn’t think we were causing a problem by moving for an hour or so.

My wife had been in bed in our VW Westfalia, so I had piled most of our stuff around her on the floor and bed. This necessitated unloading so that she could get up and out of the van. Right on the heels of this unloading, Tracey came "stomping" up. She was loaded for bear, and first accused us of not having paid. After hurling abusive language for a time over our having failed to pay and having forced her to chase us the entire length of the campground while we disturbed everyone with the loud "thing" we were driving, she obviously realized that we had checked in the night before. At that point she changed the direction of her attack and demanded that we move immediately back to our original spot "NOW." She wouldn’t have us "trashing" another spot.

She treated me like a dog, ordering me about, haranguing and insulting me, and calling me a liar as I packed the car, which was done much too slowly for her liking. At one point she grabbed a cooler and thrust it angrily into the back of the van. I finally got fed up and responded with a couple of angry comments of my own, including one about the smell from the bathroom. At that point, she evicted us from the campground for all time. She has no need to worry about suffering through our return.

I’m nearly 64 years old. I’ve traveled in many places in the world and through every state in the U.S., and I’ve never encountered such rude, clearly unbalanced and bizarre behavior in a host. Beware!

[Don]

I'm sorry I missed this thread before. This place just made my must-do list! :haha:

Mixed reviews, some funny ones at http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g143016-d1157207-Reviews-Canyonlands_Needles_Outpost-Canyonlands_National_Park_Utah.html

[moab mark]

Rode Lockhart Basin a few weeks ago on a motorcycle and stopped in to get some gas from the wicked witch of the west. She was in her usual bitchy mood. She didn't want us to come inside in our motocross boots. She brought the cans of coke and snacks to us out at the gas pumps. I would like to know if they own that ground or are on a lease from the Park Service. I talked with a Park Ranger last year at Elephant Hill and I asked him what was the story with them. He was not very talkative about the situation but gave me the impression they were aware of the problem,but it was easier to just have the store available then try to find someone else. :angryfire:

[canyonphile]

I'm sorry I missed this thread before. This place just made my must-do list! :haha:

Totally! And seeing as we are heading there next week, we may just have to stop by and yank her chain, which clearly wouldn't be hard (like driving 15 mph on her road :haha:).

How is it that a batshit crazy drunk gets to run a campground and store in such an amazing place? She doesn't deserve the job. Hey, I'll do it!


Mixed reviews, some funny ones at http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g143016-d1157207-Reviews-Canyonlands_Needles_Outpost-Canyonlands_National_Park_Utah.html

I love reading TA reviews for nasty places - those were :lol8: :popcorn:

[Sombeech]

somebody please get some pics or video of their next encounter. :lol8:

[jfranchow]

SLTrib had an article a year or so back about the state increasing their lease 300 percent or so in the near future. They're located on SITLA land. In the article, the owners claimed they wouldn't be able to afford being there much longer. So maybe "enjoy" it while you can???

[DSTRBD]

Yes video!!!

I have wanted to go out that way and after reading Kurt's review a couple years ago on a different site I have wondered about taking extra gas just in case.

[accadacca]

How is it that a batshit crazy drunk gets to run a campground and store in such an amazing place?
:roflol:

[Iceaxe]

I can't believe I missed this thread before..... too funny... I think I'll speed down her road and back out just to get her going.... and then the next dumb sucker that stops will end up paying for my transgretion...

:lol8:

[hike.higher]

Here is the Trib article:

[March 19, 2009]

Proprietor: Compromise not enough to save Needles Outpost: Canyonlands ? Store's owner says business will "die."

Mar 19, 2009 (The Salt Lake Tribune - McClatchy-Tribune Information Services via COMTEX) -- The Needles Outpost near Canyonlands National Park got some breathing room from its landlord Thursday, but the couple who operate the remote convenience store and gas station say it won't be enough to keep the business going for long.

For the past 12 years, Tracey Napoleone and Gary Knecht have leased land just east of the park's Needles District from the Utah School & Institutional Trust Lands Administration (SITLA).

The Needles Outpost is an oasis for travelers in Utah's outback, 70 miles southwest of Moab, and offers food, soda pop and gasoline and camp sites.
Recently, SITLA sought a lease increase from $5,300 per year to $19,200 -- 360 percent.

The couple appealed to the agency's board of directors, saying the out-of-the-way business doesn't earn enough from its sparse clientele to afford the new rent.

In a tentative agreement reached Thursday morning, SITLA officials agreed to leave the Outpost's rent at $5,300 for now. But the agency would increase the lease to $6,300 in 2010; to $8,300 in 2011; and to $19,200 in 2012.

Napoleone praised Salt Lake City-based attorney Brenda Flanders, who represents the Outpost on a pro-bono basis. But she added the deal spells the end of their business.

"They are just giving us an extended eviction notice," Napoleone said in a telephone interview Thursday. "I don't know why they want this place to die. I'm just crushed." The sharp increase in rent was due to a recent appraisal of the 640-acre parcel, according to SITLA officials.

Agency counsel Stephanie Barber-Renteria called the $19,200 lease figure "fair market value" for the land. Under Utah law, the agency must maximize its resources for the state's Permanent Education Fund.

"The agency negotiated in good faith," Barber-Renteria said. "Based on the negotiations, SITLA understood this would give the lessee the opportunity to grow their business" in order to meet the increased lease payment.

Although Napoleone and Knecht are thankful for the three-year reprieve, they say come 2012, they will be gone.

The couple doesn't believe the Outpost can further hike its prices, even though it provides essential services for park visitors.

"They are going to put a viable and necessary operation out of business," Napoleone said. "It doesn't make a lot of sense, but you can't get that across to them." csmart@sltrib.com

[moab mark]

I can't believe I missed this thread before..... too funny... I think I'll speed down her road and back out just to get her going.... and then the next dumb sucker that stops will end up paying for my transgretion...

:lol8:
Just make sure you have glass insurance, she probably has a shotgun behind the counter.:nono:

[moab mark]

I can't believe I missed this thread before..... too funny... I think I'll speed down her road and back out just to get her going.... and then the next dumb sucker that stops will end up paying for my transgretion...

:lol8:


Did you drop in and visit the friendly campground host?

[Bad Karma]

I've seen both sides of her too. First time down there she was super nice, friendly and my experience there was good. The few other times I've been down there she's been a total bitch. Nothing like others experiences because I never actually stayed there just stopped in to purchase stuff. The first time I wrote it off as her having a bad day but it happened WAY too often and everyday cannot be a bad day in that area (I'm always in a good mood when I'm there). I refuse to go there now simply because of her attitude and they way she runs the place.

[dburt]

They have always been good to me.:ne_nau:

[ExpUt]

Loving the Trip Adviser reviews :crazy:
I've been through the area a handful of times since our dreaded 'I can't reward bad behavior' trip. I think I have stopped just once as our group was meeting there. I was detailing our previous experience with this group when another party in our group piped up and told us how Tracey verbally assaulted his 8 year old child over a naive comment he made. Par for the course :D

I'd like to think that a store purveyor with some tact could earn plenty of money to make up that SITLA lease increase. She maliciously turned down our money, and we've proven my experience was not unique. They are not the only outback gas station in remote places, never have I had a similar reaction. In fact during my time spent in Aussie we stopped at some really remote gas stations... I've never seen people more excited to chat and make you feel at home and sell you a cold beer :D

[lowidle]

I stayed there on April 4th and yes the lady who runs the place is eccentric. She asked me not to take a shower token because she did not have many left. I initially took it anyway but gave it back in an hour. At that point I could do no wrong! The point is to be nice. These folks have to truck in all their water, food, gas. All electricity is solar based and those panels are damned expensive. Be friendly and show some empathy and you will have a great experience. I much prefer to camp here than in the park with ranger patrols every 5 minutes. By the way last week there was NO WATER except at the visitor center. Next trip I camp at the outpost and bike into the park.

[Tango]

Stopped in after a several day backpack in Upper Salt Creek area. I walked in and was looking around, no one was there. A woman came in from the back looked at me and without a word turned around and walked back out. The shelves were bare so no big thing to not spend money there! A big WHATEVER to them!

[Sombeech]

Thought I'd post this response that came through the "Contact Us" form regarding this thread.
Here is the response:

Tracey Napoleone
needlesoutpost@aol.com

people are so selfish & clueless
They have no idea about the desert life, just demanding city people...
So sad~

[Don]

Thought I'd post this response that came through the "Contact Us" form regarding this thread.
Here is the response:

Tracey Napoleone
needlesoutpost@aol.com

people are so selfish & clueless
They have no idea about the desert life, just demanding city people...
So sad~

That was the whole message? At least she lives up to her reputation I guess. :haha:

[maxpower]

Does anybody know of another campground nearby other than inside theNneedles? Was planning on staying at the outpost in about 3 weeks and after reading this thread will pass on staying there I think. I am planning on day-hiking in the Needles for 2-3 days but wanted to camp outside the park.

[ExpUt]

Thought I'd post this response that came through the "Contact Us" form regarding this thread.
Here is the response:

Tracey Napoleone
needlesoutpost@aol.com

people are so selfish & clueless
They have no idea about the desert life, just demanding city people...
So sad~

:nod:

Looks like the desert people are watching their reputation on the internet. Good, I'm not asking for radical changes, just some grip. Given the sporadiac and often emotional behavior shown by Tracey cannot be written off as the emotions of 'demanding city people'.

[Cheops]

I have stayed there a couple of times and have had a good stay. I would like the outpost to be available since it is problematic to get into the Needles campground. I know Tracy can have erratic behavior but I also feel the campground and store is an asset.

[Sam P]

Under new & greatly improved management. We had a FANTASTIC experience staying at Needles Outpost over Labor Day weekend 2015. Clean tent sites, clean campground, clean restrooms with flush toilets and hot showers, clean office/store/gas station, and very friendly staff. Cost exactly the same for two nights camping as it would inside the park after factoring in the $10 park entrance fee. Sites for car/tent camping inside the park - less than 5 miles away - were mostly primitive, with only one compost toilet per campground. Needles Outpost had two restrooms - one for men and one for women. Two toilets, two showers, and two sinks in each. Even though they truck in the water, with our fee for a 2 night stay we got tokens for 1 shower per person in our group. Since it's the middle of the desert, the showers operate on 5 minute timers to conserve water - which has to be brought in by truck. The best part is that instead of trying to rush to get done in 5 minutes from start to finish (impossible if you're helping small children get clean at the same time as yourself), the timer only counts down while the water is running. Think Navy ship shower - turn the water on, get wet, turn the water off, lather up from head to toe, turn water on again, rinse completely, turn water off). HUGE red rock in the campground bordering all the campsites on the east side of the grounds. We took two hikes, each lasting more than an hour, up on the rock and still didn't get to explore it all. High on the rock we saw petroglyphs and were treated to fantastic 360 degree views. It was only about 3 miles from our camp site to Canyonlands N.P. Visitor Center. Thank you, new management, for a great desert camping experience. We'll be back again next year.

[Dman]

Wow, hellova first post Sam P. Sound like a little self promotion though. Any chance you know the "new management" personally? Either way it sounds like new management was way over due.

[trackrunner]

Bump
Update about the couple. Outpost is under new management. The couple was evicted after several convictions for assaulting "city people" and selling alcohol to minors. The SITLA is for sell. Opening bid is $1million.
http://www.sltrib.com/home/4884954-155/state-to-sell-needles-outpost-land?fullpage=1


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[russellben]

This will be interesting to see what happens. The old couple was crazy. Got stuff thrown at me personally. The new couple running the place are great. Would hate to see no services in that area. The outpost has saved me a few times.


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[J]

Sounds like something from "Hotel Nightmares" ha haha approach with caution