'08 Zion Noobfest - Prep for Gear

[DiscGo]

Hey I have a harness, and I am working on getting a rope. In the end I will get what I need to get to go on this trip, but I thought I would check and see if anyone had any gear they could lend me.



P.S. I have been in some very cold water during my life, and have been leaning away from renting a wet suit. Is it really so cold that it will be worth the money to me when I am in the canyon?

[Alex]

It's better be safe than sorry. I believe you can rent it locally in Zion Adventure Company. Also, UoU rec program rents them pretty cheap as well

[Bo_Beck]

Hey I have a harness, and I am working on getting a rope. In the end I will get what I need to get to go on this trip, but I thought I would check and see if anyone had any gear they could lend me.



P.S. I have been in some very cold water during my life, and have been leaning away from renting a wet suit. Is it really so cold that it will be worth the money to me when I am in the canyon?

If you are planning to hike Pine Creek with a large group, it's a really good idea to have a wetsuit or drysuit. You'll be spending a long time at each rappel and it's downright coooooold! Certain to have a much better experience if you are not shivering uncontrollably :2thumbs:

[Iceaxe]

I would say that harness, large locking biner, rappel device and wetsuit are mandatory.

And Helmet!

[Don]

I too am going to have to buy or rent a wet suit. Leaning toward purchase because renting something that fits so tight seems creepy. :a:

Recommendations?

[ratagonia]

I would say that harness, large locking biner, rappel device and wetsuit are mandatory.

Helmet, dear Shane? Or are you a proponent of the 'hard headed' approach for the noobs under your wing?

Those wishing to rent wetsuits from ZAC should make a reservation. 435-772-0990

Tom

[Iceaxe]

And Helmets!!!

just wasn't thinking.... I have to much on my plate this morning.

This is all covered in post #1 of the fest thread.

:cool2:

[tanya]

Get off the porn sites then. :lol8:

[tanya]

I would say that harness, large locking biner, rappel device and wetsuit are mandatory.

Helmet, dear Shane? Or are you a proponent of the 'hard headed' approach for the noobs under your wing?

Those wishing to rent wetsuits from ZAC should make a reservation. 435-772-0990

Tom


He calls you 'dear' :naughty:

Alex will get jeaous! :eek2:

[Alex]

Honestly Tom, you are stepping on private property here....LOL

Also, good sticky shoes help! My first trip out was made in tennis shoes, then I went and bought 5.11 canyoneers and what a difference that made! Gloves also help for noobs like me on the rope, so you don't get rope burn.

If you are bringing a back pack, poke a couple of holes in the bottom for the water drain. I had to do that in the slot canyon because I kept carrying water all over. I bought Tom's pack now and love it! :2thumbs:

Noobs don't need to worry about the rope, some of the pros will bring it. Oh wait, I am bringing Tom's rope.. so I must be a pro now! :cool2:

Don't wear ANY cotton, you will freeze your butt off, bring something that dries quick, something with nylon.

[shaggy125]

Other options for wetsuits, if you live in SLC there is a dive shop in West Valley that rents for $20 for a week, another here in Ft. Union that rents $20 for 5 days. The mountain shop in Cedar City rents them too. ZAC is expensive but most convenient. As far as buying a wetsuit there is always the Sportsman's Warehouse specials for like $50 but they don't work well for me, too cold. Tom's Hyperflex suits cost more but are warmer and much more comfy (http://www.canyoneeringusa.com go to the store and find wetsuits) this is what I've been using. My old O'neil surfer suit worked well too before it got trashed (took two years of lots of use before it finally died). Yes you should wear a wetsuit in Pine Creek, especially with a big group of newbies... and DON'T think a shortee is a wetsuit, because they are pretty much worthless. If Pine Creek happens to be tip top full, you will be freezing your butt off without a full suit on and will have no fun at all. It's not the swimming through the cold water, it's the getting wet and standing around while everyone rappels (newbies rappel really slow) shivering with no sunlight or any means to warm up. Trust me, wet Zion canyons with no wetsuit pretty much suck and are no fun. Every newbie I take through Pine Creek fights against me making them bring a suit (I won't let them come without one), and every one of them thanks me afterward for making them get one.

[SLCmntjunkie]

rather than poking holes in your pack you can get a grommet kit at walmart or somewhere for about $5 and make some decent drain holes.

I'd also suggest learning how to rig extra friction on your rappel device to prevent burning your hands rather than relying on gloves.

[Alex]

rather than poking holes in your pack you can get a grommet kit at walmart or somewhere for about $5 and make some decent drain holes.

I'd also suggest learning how to rig extra friction on your rappel device to prevent burning your hands rather than relying on gloves.

I guess I am not a pro after all :lol8:

Thanks for those suggestions, both make sense :2thumbs:

[tanya]

rather than poking holes in your pack you can get a grommet kit at walmart or somewhere for about $5 and make some decent drain holes.

I'd also suggest learning how to rig extra friction on your rappel device to prevent burning your hands rather than relying on gloves.

I guess I am not a pro after all :lol8:

Thanks for those suggestions, both make sense :2thumbs:

You are getting there... you just don't like to do stuff like stick grommets in your pack. (me either, it's too much like sewing and crafting :lol8: ) I would rather buy one of Tom's and Shane usuaully sets your ropes. In Telephone where it was so cold, yucky and junk was all over the rope I would have liked gloves and I have never wore them before. My hands hurt a bit in there.

[Alex]

I find gloves work well for me. I am sure with experience I will lose gloves, and be like the cool pro boys, but meanwhile, I will be the noob and wear them with pride! :lol8:

[Iceaxe]

me either, it's too much like sewing and crafting :lol8:

:roflol: :roflol: :roflol:

I'm just trying to picture Tanya sewing and crafting.....

:lol8: :lol8: :lol8:

Please stop it.... you are making my sides hurt from laughing....

:five:

[trackrunner]

The mountain shop in Cedar City rents them too.

Just in case those of you that don't know the Mountain Shop in Cedar City is no longer operating. Ben is trying to sell the business if anyone wants to by it. On the last day of operations Dec 31, 2007, I heard there were talks with a well known canyoneering authority in Cedar City to buy the business (or inventory) and combined it with his school. Haven

[Win]

Look up Noob in the dictionary and that's me you see. After a few rappels I went to the outdoor Outlet and picked up a pair of glove, I really like them.

My $.02

Win

[tanya]

me either, it's too much like sewing and crafting :lol8:

:roflol: :roflol: :roflol:

I'm just trying to picture Tanya sewing and crafting.....

:lol8: :lol8: :lol8:

Please stop it.... you are making my sides hurt from laughing....

:five:

:mrgreen: I have done it before. I have crocheted beautiful Angels for the top of trees and snow flakes, teddy bears and booties. Those were during nesting days though... which are long past!

[DiscGo]

This has been very helpful. Thanks.

[ratagonia]

rather than poking holes in your pack you can get a grommet kit at walmart or somewhere for about $5 and make some decent drain holes.

I'd also suggest learning how to rig extra friction on your rappel device to prevent burning your hands rather than relying on gloves.

Ace Hardware in Olympus Cove has a really good grommet kit. Buy a separate punch as the one included is ineffective.

Tom

[dandyj]

I work at an outdoor store so I get lots of new gear for cheap. I am a super gear junkie and have about five of everthing. Depending on your size I may have a wetsuit you could use or just about any other gear. Right now UVSC Outdoor Adventure store has some used scuba wetsuits for under thirty dollars. Pretty decent steal cause they will get torn up anyway. I will probably pick up a few just so I can fill the empty three inches in my closet.

[abirken]

I have everything BUT the wetsuit. :frustrated: what to do, what to do.....................I may end up buying one.

[DiscGo]

I work at an outdoor store so I get lots of new gear for cheap. I am a super gear junkie and have about five of everthing. Depending on your size I may have a wetsuit you could use or just about any other gear. Right now UVSC Outdoor Adventure store has some used scuba wetsuits for under thirty dollars. Pretty decent steal cause they will get torn up anyway. I will probably pick up a few just so I can fill the empty three inches in my closet.

I am probably too big :(. I am 6'2, 245. A size XL with a 40 waste. I will probably go check out UVSC on Monday though. That sounds awesome.

[rockgremlin]

Yes you should wear a wetsuit in Pine Creek, especially with a big group of newbies... and DON'T think a shortee is a wetsuit, because they are pretty much worthless. If Pine Creek happens to be tip top full, you will be freezing your butt off without a full suit on and will have no fun at all. It's not the swimming through the cold water, it's the getting wet and standing around while everyone rappels (newbies rappel really slow) shivering with no sunlight or any means to warm up. Trust me, wet Zion canyons with no wetsuit pretty much suck and are no fun. Every newbie I take through Pine Creek fights against me making them bring a suit (I won't let them come without one), and every one of them thanks me afterward for making them get one.

YES!!!!!! Heed this great advice!!!

[ratagonia]

I have everything BUT the wetsuit. :frustrated: what to do, what to do.....................I may end up buying one.

email me off-group and we can work something out (but shhhhhhhhh, don't tell anyone) - Tom (ratagonia@gmail.com)

[Sombeech]

In the end I will get what I need to get to go on this trip

Bring a chill pill to hand out for everybody. :roflol:

[tanya]

I don't know... I think it would be fun to watch someone go in there without a wet/dry suit. :lol8: :twisted:

[abirken]

I have everything BUT the wetsuit. :frustrated: what to do, what to do.....................I may end up buying one.

email me off-group and we can work something out (but shhhhhhhhh, don't tell anyone) - Tom (ratagonia@gmail.com)

Let's make a deal! (just sent ya an email) :2thumbs:

[Sombeech]

Oh, I forgot to mention I'm bringing this, so nobody else should have to worry 'bout it.





http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41XEP6M3QFL._SL500_.jpg

[abirken]

In the end I will get what I need to get to go on this trip

Bring a chill pill to hand out for everybody. :roflol:


After reviewing the information on the last rappell in Pine Creek.........I think a valium for me is mandatory. My palms are sweaty just thinking about it right now. :haha:

[Axpence]

don't worry guys, im bringing the unicycle.

[Randi]

In the end I will get what I need to get to go on this trip

Bring a chill pill to hand out for everybody. :roflol:


After reviewing the information on the last rappell in Pine Creek.........I think a valium for me is mandatory. My palms are sweaty just thinking about it right now. :haha:

You'll be fine Allison...
without the pill.

A firemans belay (at least on the trip I'm helping out on) will be provided for all new people. Means someone down below will be holding the rope and breaking for you if need be. So, even if something were to happen with your rappel, you won't fall to your death. :2thumbs:

You're gonna LOVE Pine Creek!

And to anyone who's thinking of wearing a shorty - don't!
You'll be miserably cold and might suffer hypothermia considering the size of the group and the time you'll probably be in there. The water is FREEZING!

[Don]

So I am renting a full length wetsuit for this trip. I have everything else I need (might buy a canyon keg, but that's not really a need).
My question is about shoes. I have a decent pair of Soloman light hikers with good grip that were quite comfortable in Quandary and Knotted rope earlier this year. I would like to buy the 510 canyoneer shoes, but squeezing that out of the budget between now and the noobfest would make things tight.
Can I get away with these Solomans in Pine Creek?

[Alex]

Pine creek doesn't really need special shoes as far as I remember. So I think light hiking shoes should be plenty.

On the side note, I use 5.10 Canyoneer as my regular hiking shoes on slick rock now, those shoes rock! :2thumbs:

[tanya]

So I am renting a full length wetsuit for this trip. I have everything else I need (might buy a canyon keg, but that's not really a need).
My question is about shoes. I have a decent pair of Soloman light hikers with good grip that were quite comfortable in Quandary and Knotted rope earlier this year. I would like to buy the 510 canyoneer shoes, but squeezing that out of the budget between now and the noobfest would make things tight.
Can I get away with these Solomans in Pine Creek?

Hi Don,

You don't need anything too fancy to do the canyons you are signed up for. 5-10 Canyoneers come in handy for river hiking (like narrows or kolob) and when you need some sticky rubber for climbing up and down things (those doing Red Cave might want some good shoes). Subway you won't need them, Keyhole you don't really need them but they might be nice to have in there and even Pine Creek they are not really needed. Your Soloman's should be fine, but from what I have heard about them they might fall apart. Contact Bo Beck about some good prices on shoes. He is gone on a SAR right now but should be back for the weekend.

Wear neoprene socks in all the canyons and you will be far more comfortable. Those would be #1 on my shopping list!

You would only need a canyon keg is you are taking a pricey camera though but then you can only get it out at stops. I carry a big, heavy camera and have it in a cloth case instead of 2 dry bags so that I can take it out all the time and use it. You don't need to get too fancy for this trip.

A warm wetsuit is important even though the last report I read is that there is only one 20 foot swim in Pine Creek right now. Everyone keep in mind that the warmer the suit, the bigger and heavier they are and realize you need to carry those things when you are not wearing them!

With a large group you will feeze your rear off doing Keyhole without one even though people do Keyhole all the time with small groups without the suits - you would not catch me doing that though!! BRRRRRRR!!!

Subway you won't need to wear a wet or drysuit, but do wear quick drying clothes.

You want to be comfortable but don't put too much money into this. Contact Tom Jones for a good canyoneering wetsuit that does not cost too much or visit REI and pick up a cheap one. I would check buying vs renting prices. There is a thread somewhere on the group on where to go and get a good wetsuit that does not cost much. Shane and Alex made the suggestion --- I think it is a Team Stearn thing at REI?

[Randi]

So I am renting a full length wetsuit for this trip. I have everything else I need (might buy a canyon keg, but that's not really a need).
My question is about shoes. I have a decent pair of Soloman light hikers with good grip that were quite comfortable in Quandary and Knotted rope earlier this year. I would like to buy the 510 canyoneer shoes, but squeezing that out of the budget between now and the noobfest would make things tight.
Can I get away with these Solomans in Pine Creek?

I canyoneered my first year in tennis shoes.
Hiking shoes would be more grippy (better) and the only issue I think you'll have is you'll need to be able to wear neoprene socks with em. 5 mil would be best to keep your feet from freezing.

ZAC probably rents them, and I'm sure that Tom J (Imlay gear) sells them. If you have thinner neos you're gonna wear, I'd wear wool socks as well.

And, if anyone doesn't have a dry bag and doesn't want to buy one, you can get some pretty think 3 mil trash bags from a lawn and garden store. If you double these up, they work fine as long as you're not exposing them to abrasion (meaning they're snug inside the backpack). I don't know however if they come in a small size but I would be they do.

PS: ZAC rents full length wet suits for $15 per day I think. They're open from 8 to 8.

[Don]

Thanks for the quick responces!
Josh works at the U of U and thinks he can get a deal renting our wetsuits from them (he's looking into it today).
We bought neo-socks before doing Quandary and Knotted rope earlier this year, but didn't even use them down there. (Low water levels in canyons and slogging through Muddy Creek at the end was warm enough we didn't need them)
Sounds like I'm going to wear the Solomans and consider the 510's somewhere down the road.
That loosens up the budget for the trip a little so I will be the guy mixing margarita's in camp. :2thumbs:

[Alex]

Wet suits at the UofU rec center are farmer johns, you might get cold in the upper torso. Pinecreek has full body swims. I don't remember if UofU has other wet suits, check with them.

[Don]

Wet suits at the UofU rec center are farmer johns, you might get cold in the upper torso. Pinecreek has full body swims. I don't remember if UofU has other wet suits, check with them.

Thanks for the heads up. Josh just told me the same thing. I guess we are looking into other options now. :utes3:

[Jaxx]

we have rented from the zion outdoor center a few times. the wetsuits were in good condition and we also rented 5.10's from them. We like them enough that both my wife and I now own a pair. Very nice peeps. Funny story is we thought it was Zion Adventure Center and when we went down this past weekend realized it wasn't! ZOC is the one behind the Pizza and Noodle.

[moab mark]

rather than poking holes in your pack you can get a grommet kit at walmart or somewhere for about $5 and make some decent drain holes.

I'd also suggest learning how to rig extra friction on your rappel device to prevent burning your hands rather than relying on gloves.

Ace Hardware in Olympus Cove has a really good grommet kit. Buy a separate punch as the one included is ineffective.

Tom
I just spent the last hour putting grommets in scouts packs for our trip to zion. here's a suggestion, to punch your holes for the grommets, get a 3 ft long piece of 2x4 and stand it length wise. Slide the pack over it and pound the hole punch down on the top of the 2x4. When putting the grommet together use the 2x4 again. Made it alot easier. If someone else has a better idea let me know i have several more packs to do later.

[ratagonia]

we have rented from the zion outdoor center a few times. the wetsuits were in good condition and we also rented 5.10's from them. We like them enough that both my wife and I now own a pair. Very nice peeps. Funny story is we thought it was Zion Adventure Center and when we went down this past weekend realized it wasn't! ZOC is the one behind the Pizza and Noodle.

It's Technical!

Zion Adventure Company, which does the canyoneering rentals and sells the canyoneering stuff, has TWO locations - the main one is on Lion Blvd closer to the Park from downtown, and the smaller location behind the Pizza Noodle, in a place sometimes called the Zion Outdoor Center. Currently, all outfitting is at the Lion Blvd location, and the ZO location includes a bookstore and an Internet Cafe.

Zion Outdoors used to be in the Zion Outdoor Center, but they got the space that WAS the Fatali Gallery with the big window to the Pizza Noodle. Which allowed Zion Adventure Company (ZAC) to occupy the whole of the Zion Outdoor Center (ZOC) last year, before the new building was ready.

Tom

[tanya]

Will you be there Tom so the Noobs can meet the Emperor? :popcorn:

[hank moon]

I don't know... I think it would be fun to watch someone go in there without a wet/dry suit. :lol8: :twisted:

yeah, s'pecially the part where everyone gets naked to warm up the victim. :2thumbs:

[trackrunner]

I don't know... I think it would be fun to watch someone go in there without a wet/dry suit. :lol8: :twisted:

yeah, s'pecially the part where everyone gets naked to warm up the victim. :2thumbs:

Well then, let's just make it a training session. :lol8:

[tanya]

I don't know... I think it would be fun to watch someone go in there without a wet/dry suit. :lol8: :twisted:

yeah, s'pecially the part where everyone gets naked to warm up the victim. :2thumbs:

Well then, let's just make it a training session. :lol8:

:lol8: :roflol:

[accadacca]

Other options for wetsuits, if you live in SLC there is a dive shop in West Valley that rents for $20 for a week, another here in Ft. Union that rents $20 for 5 days.
Sounds like my balls aren't big enough to wear my shorty. Anybody have addresses or names of these places or other options. Looking to rent, hopefully it hasn't been pee'd in lately. :lol8:

[tanya]

Bo's friend Dean who is also on the SAR team owns this one.
http://www.zionadventures.com/

Something fun to do while at the fest, in the afternoons, would be to rent kayacks from Dean and go from Springdale to Rockville or farther.

Tom Jones works at this one
http://www.zionadventures.com/the_right_gear_for_the_narrows.html


Both are good and you can rent stuff at either.

Last report I read in canyons says there is only going to be one 20 foot cold swim in Pine Creek. Keyhole however will be COLD.. it always is and remember you will be with a large group so you will be going slow. Dress warm! Don't forget neoprene socks! Those are most important! .. at least to me! I hate cold feet!.. well they are cold in the socks but not as cold! Remember your shoes have to fit over them. Thicker you get the warmer. (usually)

[dandyj]

I don't know if they are still there however a week or so ago UVSC outdoor adventure center had some used, two piece, full body scuba suits for $30 and cheaper. They are going to get torn up and destroyed anyway this probably wouldn't be a bad option.

[abirken]

You'll be fine Allison...
without the pill.

A firemans belay (at least on the trip I'm helping out on) will be provided for all new people. Means someone down below will be holding the rope and breaking for you if need be. So, even if something were to happen with your rappel, you won't fall to your death. :2thumbs:

You're gonna LOVE Pine Creek!



Thanks for the words of encouragement! As long as I know I won't be falling to my death, then it's all good. HAHA! Actually, I'm not as freaked out as I thought I would be. I'm really looking forward to this. It's going to be really awesome to also learn a few things for future canyons. I couldn't be going with a better group of folks! :five:

BTW: I don't like the way pills make me feel. :lol8:

[Jaxx]

It's Technical!

Zion Adventure Company, which does the canyoneering rentals and sells the canyoneering stuff, has TWO locations - the main one is on Lion Blvd closer to the Park from downtown, and the smaller location behind the Pizza Noodle, in a place sometimes called the Zion Outdoor Center. Currently, all outfitting is at the Lion Blvd location, and the ZO location includes a bookstore and an Internet Cafe.

Zion Outdoors used to be in the Zion Outdoor Center, but they got the space that WAS the Fatali Gallery with the big window to the Pizza Noodle. Which allowed Zion Adventure Company (ZAC) to occupy the whole of the Zion Outdoor Center (ZOC) last year, before the new building was ready.

Tom

Ah, thanks for the clarification.

[Win]

I was looking thru some stuff, trying to be organized. Here's what I can lend someone if needed:

Small ladies sized Cayoneering pack by Salomon, comes with a dry bag

ATC - brand new, bought it for a friend that hasn't used it

Large and small locking biners. 1 large a couple of small

I'll provide a large cooler with water, Gatorade and a few beers. I live locally, let me know if you have any requests.

Win

[ratagonia]

Will you be there Tom so the Noobs can meet the Emperor? :popcorn:

Unfortunately, I am otherwise committed for this time period. :sad:

Tom

[ratagonia]

we have rented from the zion outdoor center a few times. the wetsuits were in good condition and we also rented 5.10's from them. We like them enough that both my wife and I now own a pair. Very nice peeps. Funny story is we thought it was Zion Adventure Center and when we went down this past weekend realized it wasn't! ZOC is the one behind the Pizza and Noodle.

Footwear: a big thing is: your non-water shoes will get really beat up by doing canyons, so it might be better to rent shoes made for this activity.

Your regular shoes, sneakers, boots, light hikers; leather or mostly synthetic, are not meant to be wet for hours at a time. When I have done this in the past, the shoes change size somewhat when wet and beat up my feet, but the being wet for quite a long time really beats up the shoes, and they are never really the same again. Often, then end up 1/2 size smaller when done. So don't bring and use shoes that you actually like!!!

If you wear Neoprene socks and/or heavy, tightly-woven wool socks, your feet will get beat up much less.

Canyoneers and Exum Rivers are 100% synthetic non-absorptive materials, and they don't change much at all when they get wet and afterwards when they dry out.

Tom

[abirken]

I have everything BUT the wetsuit. :frustrated: what to do, what to do.....................I may end up buying one.

email me off-group and we can work something out (but shhhhhhhhh, don't tell anyone) - Tom (ratagonia@gmail.com)


Shhhhhhh don't tell anyone Tom, but thank you for my wetsuit, got it today. :2thumbs: Let me tell ya! Such a great feeling looking and feeling like a stuffed pork sausage. What a confidence booster looking in the mirror!!! :ahhh: :help: :lol8:

[ratagonia]

I have everything BUT the wetsuit. :frustrated: what to do, what to do.....................I may end up buying one.

email me off-group and we can work something out (but shhhhhhhhh, don't tell anyone) - Tom (ratagonia@gmail.com)


Shhhhhhh don't tell anyone Tom, but thank you for my wetsuit, got it today. :2thumbs: Let me tell ya! Such a great feeling looking and feeling like a stuffed pork sausage. What a confidence booster looking in the mirror!!! :ahhh: :help: :lol8:

Sorry, the figure-flattering model is MUCH more expensive (and rather difficult to get into.
:naughty:
Tom

[Felicia]

Welcome to the world of canyoneering! :five:

[abirken]

Welcome to the world of canyoneering! :five:

Oh girl. It was funny. I did go outside and walk the neighborhood in it to mortify my 13 year old son. My 4 year old just laughed at me and thought I looked like an alien. My husband came pulling up from work and told me to get back in the house.

Yup. Stuffed Sausage- Canyoneering. I see the correlation. HAHA!!!!!!!!! :five: :roflol:

[abirken]

I have everything BUT the wetsuit. :frustrated: what to do, what to do.....................I may end up buying one.

email me off-group and we can work something out (but shhhhhhhhh, don't tell anyone) - Tom (ratagonia@gmail.com)


Shhhhhhh don't tell anyone Tom, but thank you for my wetsuit, got it today. :2thumbs: Let me tell ya! Such a great feeling looking and feeling like a stuffed pork sausage. What a confidence booster looking in the mirror!!! :ahhh: :help: :lol8:

Sorry, the figure-flattering model is MUCH more expensive (and rather difficult to get into.
:naughty:
Tom


But TOM! You promised the one that gives me back my 21 year old figure again. :2thumbs: :lol8: It's ok. We'll work on that for next time. :2thumbs:

[Axpence]

how many mm thickness should my wetsuit be?

[Axpence]

and i take it when iceaxe says "rappelling device" he means an ACT?

[trackrunner]

and i take it when iceaxe says "rappelling device" he means an ACT?
or a pirana, or a figure 8, or a tube device, or muntner, or . . .

[Iceaxe]

So long as you feel comfortable sliding down the rope with your "rappelling device" I couldn't care less what you use.

But everyone knows the 'experts' all use an ATC.... only thing a figure 8 is good for is making a loud clanging noise while hanging from you harness when you walk. :haha:

And since the experts already make that same noise...... :lol8:

:five:

[Axpence]

cool, im only familiar with an ATC so i guess im an expert already :2thumbs: :nod: :frustrated: :rockon: :five: :lol8: :bootyshake: :twisted: :haha: :roflol: :naughty: :frustrated:

i just wanted to top iceaxe in how many emoticons i can use in one post and have them all fit the context.
booya iceaxe you've been publicly pwnd :2thumbs: :nono:

[stefan]

only thing a figure 8 is good for is making a loud clanging noise while hanging from you harness when you walk. :haha:

:haha: ... but a figure 8 can be used to make a nice contingency anchor

[Axpence]

one more thing,
how many mm thickness should my wetsuit be?
gracias me amigos

[Brian in SLC]

But everyone knows the 'experts' all use an ATC.... only thing a figure 8 is good for is making a loud clanging noise while hanging from you harness when you walk.

Actually, a figure eight works REALLY well in a contingency anchor. Fast, efficient, easy. So much so, I've added it to the tool box in lieu of the ol' munter/mule.

And if I was watchin' over a bunch of noobs rappel, I'd want that rap line configured with a figure eight device to allow for a quick release and lower of said noob, if said noob got themselves stuck on the rappel.

As a note, I seem to recall that Alex Lowe used to prefer a figure eight to an ATC for rappelling, even when he used to work for Black Diamond. Just about any photo of him, you'll see that noob with one clangin' on his harness...

http://www.thenorthface.com/media/athletes/athlete_photo_AL_03.jpg

-Brian in SLC

[Iceaxe]

booya iceaxe you've been publicly pwnd :2thumbs: :nono:

http://bogley.com/forum/files/n00b_438.jpg

[Iceaxe]

Actually, a figure eight works REALLY well in a contingency anchor. Fast, efficient, easy.

I agree... I was just poking the lemmings with my long handled stick.

:lol8:

[Axpence]

booya iceaxe you've been publicly pwnd :2thumbs: :nono:

http://bogley.com/forum/files/n00b_438.jpg
i was looking for an lol cat to reply with, and i got stuck at this one ha ha ha ha ha.

[ratagonia]

only thing a figure 8 is good for is making a loud clanging noise while hanging from you harness when you walk. :haha:

:haha: ... but a figure 8 can be used to make a nice contingency anchor

Yup. Also easily done with... well, nothing. Tie yourself a Munter Mule - faster, easier, and you don't have to carry a museum piece around with you to do it.

Tom

[rockgremlin]

one more thing,
how many mm thickness should my wetsuit be?
gracias me amigos

This depends on your personal tolerance to cold. If you're on the lean side and tend to get cold easily, I would go for a 4/3 or even a 5mm. Not sure how much intimate knowledge you have of wetsuits, but a 4/3 refers to a wetsuit with a thickness of 3mm on the arms and legs, and 4mm in the torso.

I'm a little on the skinny side and warm blooded, so I'll be in a 4/3. I've used 5mm's in the past (in Imlay during the dead of summer), and I loved it. Kept me nice and toasty and wasn't uncomfortable at all. Your Mileage May Vary.

[Brian in SLC]

only thing a figure 8 is good for is making a loud clanging noise while hanging from you harness when you walk. :haha:
:haha: ... but a figure 8 can be used to make a nice contingency anchor
Yup. Also easily done with... well, nothing. Tie yourself a Munter Mule - faster, easier, and you don't have to carry a museum piece around with you to do it.

Nah, munter/mule is neither faster nor easier. The belay/lower off the eight is smoother, and doesn't tend to twist the rope or bind.

Also, doesn't require much in the way of practice to keep fresh in the toolbox (a bonus to some of us who, ahem, don't do many canyons requiring contingency anchors).

Also, no need to rerig the rope through the rappel anchor with an eight. Its already set up for the last person to pluck the eight and go, rather than futzing with a carabiner etc.

Good idear to have a spare rappel device anyhow, so, an eight makes sense.

Here's what someone said with regard to the munter/mule a couple years ago:

"I have found the Munter-Mule peculiarly awkward to tie at first. As usual, the best way to learn it well is to practice, practice, practice."

And here's what Koen said in the same thread:

"That's why the munter-mule on a carabiner is going the way of the dodo in European canyons. Too many problems with unlocking the contraption, getting the munter pinched off/blocked against some rock, feeding the rope... you name it.
In a clean test situation or in "ideal" spots there's not much of a problem, but... I rarely come across an "ideal setup" in a canyon !
Almost all switched to a fig. of 8 "loose on the rope", locked off and then used as a stopper against the anchor."

Them Euro's got 'er figured out.

Maybe the only "museum pieces" will be the folks clinging to that antiquated technique of using a munter/mule? Ha ha.

I can safely deploy a figure eight as a contingency anchor pretty darn quickly, like, in a matter of seconds. Clean, easy to inspect. I futz with a munter/mule. And, when you show someone the technique, its always a "eureka" type moment. Showed a feller who guided for Exum the other day, 'cause he was givin' me grief for buy a new figure eight (liberty sale and I needed another ten bucks to use my ten bucks off coupon). He was pretty familiar with a munter/mule. Remember Keanu in the Matrix? Yeah, he was all, "whoa".

Its so nifty.

-Brian in SLC

[oldno7]

If you take 6 people with no knowledge of contingency systems and teach them all a munter/mule combo then a releasable 8, they will struggle with the M/M combo forever and rig a 8 immediately.
Maybe a good M/M guy could settup his system almost as fast as a releasable 8, maybe he could release a M/M almost as fast. The last person down can rap off a fig. 8 block as Brian stated, a M/M requires takedown and setting a block or double stranding. By the time the last person changes everything over the 8 guy is already pulling rope and moving on.
It also alleviates the potential for error when changing to a block.
Both are great tools, one is just more efficient than the other.

I'm guessing theres still some out there who think beta is better than vhs too.(hello blu-ray) :rockon: