Canyon Folks

[rcwild]

I give up.

Have fun. Safety is optional.

[ratagonia]

I stand by my earlier comment that people are over-using guided rappels just because they seem cool.

There is nothing in Water Canyon that warrants a guided rappel. So it's done just to impress clients and to have more fun. That's sending the wrong message to those clients and to the canyoneering community at large.


Yup. Wouldn't want people to think canyoneering is FUN! :roflol:

Tom

[tanya]

I give up.

Have fun. Safety is optional.


Girls just wanna have fun :haha:

At least I am wearing a helmet now. :mrgreen:

[rcwild]

You can also take a class from ME (through Zion Adventure Company 435-772-0990) and get yourself properly trained. Available anytime. More fun if you get together a bunch of people.

You can choose to learn from me (30 years canyoneering, 18 years guiding and teaching) or from one of my students (just over 10 years canyoneering, less than one year guiding and teaching).

[Scott Card]

Thump Thump Thump.... went the chests. Or you could learn from me and then teach me on our second trip. If we survive you will be treated to a dutch oven meal that will surpass any calorie expenditure from the day's hike. Then we will talk about our adventures and then we will re- hash the hike again and again on the way to the next canyons we do... Oh ya, I don't charge any thing and I only have two rules. Have fun and don't die. I don't want to be on the news.

Actually, chest thumping, egos, bad blood aside, I appreciate the comments from everyone. I tend to sift and mix and match for what fits me and then I ask a really talented feller to go with me. :haha:

[tanya]

You can also take a class from ME (through Zion Adventure Company 435-772-0990) and get yourself properly trained. Available anytime. More fun if you get together a bunch of people.

You can choose to learn from me (30 years canyoneering, 18 years guiding and teaching) or from one of my students (just over 10 years canyoneering, less than one year guiding and teaching).

Ouch! Tom Jones should hardly be considered a student!

[Iceaxe]

Ouch! Tom Jones should hardly be considered a student!

:roll:

Tom Jones was seen in Somalia taking bags of rice from starving children. Rich saw him do it.

Tom can be a little quirky at times.... but I know of no finer or more patient teacher.... I hear he even likes children, dogs and old people...

From Ice - (32 years of skirt chasing, 27 years of beer drinking, worlds greatest lover and occasional canyoneer)

:kicknuts:

[moab mark]

hey you could learn from me but I don't know *&$#$$#. B :2thumbs: ut i just purchased a brand new cordless hilti hammer drill and i am going to start putting in bolts everywhere i go. When you split the battery from the drill it's not to heavy and man is it mean. :2thumbs:
Mark

[rcwild]

Ouch! Tom Jones should hardly be considered a student!

Depends how high or low you set your standards.

[Felicia]

Ouch! Tom Jones should hardly be considered a student!

Depends how high or low you set your standards.

Rich, you are a mean and vindictive man. I recognize that it is your right to live your life the way you choose. But know that your behavior continues to reflect poorly on the ACA.

Who would want to learn anything from an organization that is run by a person like you?

It is always your way

[nat]

From Ice - (32 years of skirt chasing, 27 years of beer drinking, worlds greatest lover and occasional canyoneer)

:kicknuts:

Only 27 years of beer drinking? Sheesh... I've been drinking beer for 37 years, and I thought you were about my age (50). :haha:

Nat

[rcwild]

[quote=tanya]Ouch! Tom Jones should hardly be considered a student!

Depends how high or low you set your standards.

Rich, you are a mean and vindictive man. I recognize that it is your right to live your life the way you choose. But know that your behavior continues to reflect poorly on the ACA.

Who would want to learn anything from an organization that is run by a person like you?

It is always your way

[Scott Card]

Ouch! Tom Jones should hardly be considered a student!

Depends how high or low you set your standards. :nono: and :roll: and one more time :roll:

[skianddive]

Ouch! Tom Jones should hardly be considered a student!

Depends how high or low you set your standards.
And people wonder why I nicknamed him the Canyon Nazi. http://skepticalcommunity.com/phpbb2/uploads/hitlersmiley.gif

Proof that reality really can mimic satire!

:nod:

[Bo_Beck]

hey you could learn from me but I don't know *&$#$$#. B :2thumbs: ut i just purchased a brand new cordless hilti hammer drill and i am going to start putting in bolts everywhere i go. When you split the battery from the drill it's not to heavy and man is it mean. :2thumbs:
Mark

This wouldn't be you would it??? :ne_nau: :roflol:

[Bo_Beck]

:five:

[Bo_Beck]

Maybe we can stay dry if they don't drop us! Birdseye view of the "swimming holes" in Pine Creek! See them skinnydippers down there!? :lol8:

[tanya]

Ouch! Tom Jones should hardly be considered a student!

Depends how high or low you set your standards.



Okay... then I have to ask about those standards.

So tell us what you are talking about Rich. Tom is perhaps the best known person in the canyoneering world and is considered an expert by just about everyone. Is it just that he works for ZAC or is there something we don't know? So far, as much as I like you Rich, the reasons you have given for your hatred of others looks irrational to me. What is wrong with other canyoneers in this tiny community stepping forward to become leaders? Each has their own personality and will bring in various people. Some like Shane's style, some Tom's, some Bo's, some others and of course some yours -- it's a diverse world and it should have diverse leaders.

Shane, Lee, Tom... how many others do you hate because they step out of the pattern you have dictated? Am I in the ball park? Is this why you chastise them?

Is it an argument over technique? Tom and Shane are both brilliant engineers, Tom from MIT, Shane makes... what is it... a half-million a year doing some very difficult projects that require exceptional engineering skills! I think both men deserve quite a bit of respect for their exploration and various talents which of course have helped them to excell and lead in the sport of canyoneering. They might not do everything exactly like you, or sit in your class room, but these are brilliant men and they should not be stifled like children and made to obey when they probably understand the mechanics of how things work better than just about anyone. What about this other canyoneering group? What is it ATS? You attack them as well and from what Bo tells me they are very skilled at what they do.

These men are all leaders in the canyoneering world and should not be thought of as students -- I don't know if Shane and Lee or others were your students, but you did mention that Tom was. The world is full of examples where a student will pass a teacher in every way. I am not saying that is happening here, but a teacher should be proud when that happens rather than attacking the student.

I may be totally off base but this is what I see you trying to do. Am I wrong?

Can you give us a rational reason why you feel how you do about these men? Are there others too that you dislike as you do these three? I would like those reasons to go away and all of you become friends or at least be nice to each other. I have wanted that for years now.

I don't want to hear that they don't live up to your perfect morals because I doubt if we took a close look your morals, as well as mine and everyone's in this group, we would find no one is perfect.

[tanya]

Thump Thump Thump.... went the chests. Or you could learn from me and then teach me on our second trip. If we survive you will be treated to a dutch oven meal that will surpass any calorie expenditure from the day's hike. Then we will talk about our adventures and then we will re- hash the hike again and again on the way to the next canyons we do... Oh ya, I don't charge any thing and I only have two rules. Have fun and don't die. I don't want to be on the news.

Actually, chest thumping, egos, bad blood aside, I appreciate the comments from everyone. I tend to sift and mix and match for what fits me and then I ask a really talented feller to go with me. :haha:

My kind of partner! :five:

[tanya]

hey you could learn from me but I don't know *&$#$$#. B :2thumbs: ut i just purchased a brand new cordless hilti hammer drill and i am going to start putting in bolts everywhere i go. When you split the battery from the drill it's not to heavy and man is it mean. :2thumbs:
Mark

http://www.bogley.com/forum/files/dcp_1173__small_.jpg




This wouldn't be you would it??? :ne_nau: :roflol:

Hey Mark! How goes it? Find any places as cool as Canaan Mountain lately?

[Bo_Beck]

hey you could learn from me but I don't know *&$#$$#. B :2thumbs: ut i just purchased a brand new cordless hilti hammer drill and i am going to start putting in bolts everywhere i go. When you split the battery from the drill it's not to heavy and man is it mean. :2thumbs:
Mark

http://www.bogley.com/forum/files/dcp_1173__small_.jpg




This wouldn't be you would it??? :ne_nau: :roflol:

Hey Mark! How goes it? Find any places as cool as Canaan Mountain lately?

Wrong guy I think Tanya? The Mark you refer to (the one pictured) goes by the handle Lil'Bear I think? Not sure he is a member of Bogley?

[rcwild]

Hate? Huh? I don't hate anyone. Not even my ex-wife.

I considered Tom a friend for a long time. I won't get into the reasons that I no longer consider him a friend, but I don't hate him.

I do not believe Tom is doing anyone any favors by playing down the forces generated on a guided rappel. Bo's message is the appropriate one. Loads can be tremendous. Don't use a guided rappel unless you fully understand the forces involved and can adequately evaluate the strength of anchors. Even then, take steps to minimize the forces.

Tom's message is to go ahead and use them, even if just for fun. Heck, even at an angle of 45 degrees, the loads generated will ONLY be around 300%. Ignore the potential for greater forces. Everything you need to know about guided rappels is in that little sketch he drew. Print it out and take it with you into the canyon. And to back up his reckless advice, we get the standard "Don't question me, I have an engineering degree from MIT."

That's BS. If an instructor is going to give advice about advanced techniques on the internet, he should consider the audience and error on the side of caution - like Bo did.

The ACA has a vested interest in this for two reasons: (1) techniques that we teach for specific situations are being misused and (2) Tom is an ACA certified guide (not instructor).

Techniques being misused include blocks, retrievable anchors, auto blocks and guided rappels. We teach a wide range of techniques for the "tool box" and do our best to impress upon students when each is appropriate and when it is not. Unfortunately, some of the "why to" and "when to" information is lost when the techniques are spread, especially over the internet. Canyons are incredibly diverse. A technique that works well to solve a problem in one type of canyon can kill you if used in a different type of canyon.

I could give specific instances where Tom and others have taken it upon themselves to modify techniques taught by the ACA that resulted in widespread misuse. There have been a few accidents and incidents over the past couple years that involved the misuse (and overuse) of techniques taught by the ACA. Some have been critical of the techniques themselves instead of focusing on the misuse of the techniques.

For the most part, I believe Tom can do a good job teaching the "how to". He has a long way to go teaching the "why to" or "when to". As long as he is an ACA certified guide, he needs to be conscious of how his instruction and advice will be interpreted by canyoneers and how it might reflect on the ACA if incorrect instruction or advice results in an accident or incident. People will assume that if taught by an ACA guide, it must be an ACA endorsed technique. Tom is teaching and promoting things that are not endorsed by the ACA and would not be taught or promoted by an ACA certified instructor.


Curious about other people on my "hate list"? Like I said, I don't hate anybody. My "don't trust or respect list" is short - Shane Burrows, Lee Eismann and Darren Jefferies.

[Iceaxe]

My "don't trust or respect list" is short - Shane Burrows, Lee Eismann and Darren Jefferies.

Strange how everyone on that list knows where Rich buried the bodies.... I

[CarpeyBiggs]

Rich, I've never met you personally, and would like to give you the benefit of the doubt, but your posts are vindictive and mean. You should try being nice. You know, people might be more willing to hand over their money for your merit badges...

[Iceaxe]

These folks at Bogley are my friends! (no I don't want a Kiss Shane :lol8: )

You sure..... you don't know what you are missing!!! I do this little special thing with my tongue. :feelgood:

:roflol: :lol8: :roflol:

[moab mark]

Bo,
No that's not me in the pic. I made the comment about the drill because Rich on his website that seems to be on it's death bed due to the amount of posts on there now a days. But back to the drill, he answered a post I ask him with his usual type of reponse of arrogance just use bolts. So I went out and got me a new drill for bolting. So everyone do not start complaining about my bolts everywhere.:rockon: But seriously Carpey hit it right on the head. I would glady pay to take some classes from ACA but the attitude of mightier than all is getting old.
In regards to Tom, the one time I had the oportunity to go canyoneering with him, he was totally patient and his teaching style was excellent. My buddy and I left feeling that we had learned alot and had FUN. Anytime I have personally emailed him with a question his response have been very helpful. But there is obviously a serious problem that Rich has with controlling his sport.
Mark

[Randi]

Rich, I've never met you personally, and would like to give you the benefit of the doubt, but your posts are vindictive and mean. You should try being nice. You know, people might be more willing to hand over their money for your merit badges...

Not to derail this thread or anything...but I LOVE your avatar Carpey. That rock looks like an angel's wing. It's beautiful!

Hope you're having fun in Alaska.
I wanna go to Alaska too someday!
Send pictures! :mrgreen:

[skianddive]

[quote=rcwild]My "don't trust or respect list" is short - Shane Burrows, Lee Eismann and Darren Jefferies.

Strange how everyone on that list knows where Rich buried the bodies.... I

[skianddive]

I made the comment about the drill because Rich on his website that seems to be on its death bed due to the amount of posts on there now a days.
Pretty soon.......

http://www.jonrb.com/emoticons/tumbleweed.gif

[Randi]

[quote=Iceaxe][quote=rcwild]My "don't trust or respect list" is short - Shane Burrows, Lee Eismann and Darren Jefferies.

Strange how everyone on that list knows where Rich buried the bodies.... I

[skianddive]

Lee, you're one of the most unpleasant individuals I've ever had the displeasure of meeting. Doesn't the negativity with you EVER stop?
Ditto, Randi. And I'm afraid the Boglodytes are going to find out about the REAL Randi Poer on the weekend of June 7th. Maybe I should publish some of your hate-laden e-mails to forewarn them? You should remember the ones I was copied in on - where every other word you wrote was f$%k or f$%king or a$$hole.

Or maybe show them how you try to manipulate issues and people and stick your nose where it hasn't been invited?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/message/40424
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/message/40433



Doesn't the negativity with you EVER stop?
Negativity? Hah! Try reality.

[Randi]

Lee, you're one of the most unpleasant individuals I've ever had the displeasure of meeting. Doesn't the negativity with you EVER stop?
Ditto, Randi. And I'm afraid the Boglodytes are going to find out about the REAL Randi Poer on the weekend of June 7th. Maybe I should publish some of your hate-laden e-mails to forewarn them? You should remember the ones I was copied in on - where every other word you wrote was f$%k or f$%king or a$$hole.

Or maybe show them how you try to manipulate issues and people and stick your nose where it hasn't been invited?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/message/40424
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/message/40433



Doesn't the negativity with you EVER stop?
Negativity? Hah! Try reality.


Ughhhhhh

[skianddive]

ok well, I guess that about wraps up the questions I had on a guided rappel...
:roflol:

Where's that trainwreck when you need it? Oh wait, I found one.....

http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/images/smilies/TrainWreck1.gif

[Scott Card]

It appears that it is time to split this thread. Leave the rap stuff in the canyoneering section and send the other stuff to the rubbish bin.

My one comment on Randi. I believe the Bogley community will continue to like Randi, particularly after they meet her. I met her a couple of years back at a freezefest. I found her very nice, positive, charming, intelligent and fun to be around. My buddy, the dutch oven master, still speaks fondly of the conversation he had with her in Lep while they waited for me and a couple others to explore up the middle section of Lep. Randi is a straight shooter and a good egg. (Wow, that sounded like my grandfather, yikes)

Again, to quote the ever popular philosopher, Rodney King (you southern Californians can relate - I was in Law School in LA at the time if this famous statement)....he said, "Can't we all just git along?" That works for me. :five: Take your spittin' outside.

[skianddive]

My one comment on Randi. I believe the Bogley community will continue to like Randi, particularly after they meet her. I met her a couple of years back at a freezefest. I found her very nice, positive, charming, intelligent and fun to be around. My buddy, the dutch oven master, still speaks fondly of the conversation he had with her in Lep while they waited for me and a couple others to explore up the middle section of Lep. Randi is a straight shooter and a good egg. (Wow, that sounded like my grandfather, yikes)
I really hate to quote Rich, but unfortunately, you do not have all the facts, Scott. It's apparent that Randi has not shown her real side at any Freezefest or Rendezvous.

And it's much easier to show a false front when you only have to socialize with a person for only one week a year. You do not live here and did not have to deal with her as much as other SoCal'ers did when there used to be an active ACA Chapter here - consider yourself lucky.

And this is not negativity - this is reality. I speak the truth. And there are many others who would back me up.

[Scott Card]

I really hate to quote Rich, but unfortunately, you do not have all the facts, Scott. It's apparent that Randi has not shown her real side at any Freezefest or Rendezvous.


I never understood the need to trash people. Trash technique? OK. Trash political views? OK, even trash my religious views? Well, OK. But the person???? Naw.

I can't believe I am even responding but maybe a bit from where I am coming from..... the old fashioned principle of "charity" requires me to believe the best about people..... until they prove otherwise...and if they prove otherwise, then I must forgive. So far, Randi hasn't "proven otherwise". So far, MY experience with Randi has been good. I don't really have anyone one a bad list but there a few folks that I certainly watch out for. So, I don't know you, I have no bad opinion about you. What ever fight you may have with others is your business but my experience is that life is a lot sweeter and sleep a lot more peaceful when a little charity is applied followed by a dose of forgiveness. 'Nuff preaching for the day.

[Randi]

It appears that it is time to split this thread. Leave the rap stuff in the canyoneering section and send the other stuff to the rubbish bin.

My one comment on Randi. I believe the Bogley community will continue to like Randi, particularly after they meet her. I met her a couple of years back at a freezefest. I found her very nice, positive, charming, intelligent and fun to be around. My buddy, the dutch oven master, still speaks fondly of the conversation he had with her in Lep while they waited for me and a couple others to explore up the middle section of Lep. Randi is a straight shooter and a good egg. (Wow, that sounded like my grandfather, yikes)

Wow Scott. Thanks. That's more than just one comment! That's a bunch of nice words! :mrgreen: I hope I can halfway live up to them. That's so cool that John remembers that conversation. I remember it very well, and I still think fondly of it too. I even retold that wonderful "snake" story to my daughters (only he told it much better).

But alas, a girl can't hide her evil nature forever and I suppose Lee is right. I do have a BAD side that you, and many others haven't witnessed and may never see. Only California knows the REAL Randi. Why do you think I flee to Utah so often?

Perhaps the word "evil" describes the "real" me.
It started at a young age too as I recall, that propensity of mine for evilness.

For instance, my real grandfather didn't like me. He's deceased now (bless his soul) but the only memory I have of him is this episode where he was chasing me around the house with a belt. I was prolly about 6 or 7 (which is old enough to know better for sure), but I must have been feeling super evil that day, cuz (this has been relayed to me by my mother as I only remember the belt part) I walked up to my grandfather and asked him to close his eyes and hold out his hands - I had a surprise for him. Well, apparently it must have been a hot day cuz I dumped a glass of water over his head. I can't remember the why, or even the deed...only being chased by irate granfather with a belt!

But, upon reading Lee's description of the "real" me, I suppose I did it cause I'm a bad person. :ne_nau:

And there are man many more episodes that I recall as a child....
There was the "red ant" episode (where I maneuvered my little sister onto an ant pile) - tricked her actually. I don't know why I did it. I thought it would be funny, but it wasn't funny to her.

And there was that rug-butt episode too (same sister). Her bikini bottoms somehow fell off in the ocean and they washed up on shore (we were maybe in middle school at the time) and they were these furry looking things and I wouldn't give em back to her at first. I was twirling em around and yelling rug-butt, rug-butt (or something like that). She STILL remembers that day vividly and has reminded me of it on occasion.

And there is a long list of other stuff too

[skianddive]

Sorry, folks, one more....I must respond to Randi because this is one of the few places where I can do so and not be moderated. Please put these in the Rubbish Bin or create a separate thread, but it's time that people knew the truth!


[quote=Randi][Ughhhhhh

[Randi]

Sorry, folks, one more....I must respond to Randi because this is one of the few places where I can do so and not be moderated. Please put these in the Rubbish Bin or create a separate thread, but it's time that people knew the truth!

Yeahhhh...right Lee.

Anybody interested in this witch hunt?
Help...help....I need a lawyer!
SCOTT!!!!!! :lol8:
Oh wait! Witches don't git lawyers! :(

Lee we've been round and round this block how many times? On how many forums? I've been super bored at work so I can entertain you tomorrow if ya like (but only over in the rubbish bin). That's where this poop belongs and anyone who's interested in reading it can read it over there. I've got absolutly nothing to hide ------ it is what it is. Period.

PS: I'm not married. Never have been married.
Lewis Shorb (how do you even know his name? r u spying on me?) is the father of my three children.
Lewis and I are no longer together - meaning we broke up....quite some time ago.

See ya in the trash can?
Duel at noon tomorrow?

Any of you mods wanna split this rubbish off into that arena?

[hank moon]

http://www1.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/3e28a020989a767ae68654dc7fcdb48b5g.jpg
http://www1.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/3e28a020989a767ae68654dc7fcdb48b5g.jpg
http://www1.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/3e28a020989a767ae68654dc7fcdb48b5g.jpg

[skianddive]

I've been super bored at work so I can entertain you tomorrow if ya like.
No thanks. I'm done. I hope this doesn't hurt your feelings, but you are not entertaining.

But you are educating others, so that's a start.



PS: I'm not married. Never have been married.
Lewis Shorb (how do you even know his name? r u spying on me?) is the father of my three children.
Lewis and I are no longer together - meaning we broke up....quite some time ago.
Then WHO needs love in their life???? Maybe your psychoanalytical friend was really talking about you?

And I hope this doesn't deflate your ego, but I know his name because that's how he was introduced to me
at a certain REI store, the same place where I was told that he was your husband. I stand corrected - I
thought he was more than a sperm donor. But it couldn't have been that long ago that you broke up - must
have been less than 5 years.



See ya in the trash can?
Duel at noon tomorrow?
Not unless you're spewing trash. I only go to the Rubbish Bin to look at the pictures!

[Randi]

http://www1.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/3e28a020989a767ae68654dc7fcdb48b5g.jpg
http://www1.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/3e28a020989a767ae68654dc7fcdb48b5g.jpg
http://www1.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/3e28a020989a767ae68654dc7fcdb48b5g.jpg

What are you trying to say Hank? That gay chubby dating is about as interesting (or more so) than Lee & Randi poop?
Agreed.
Lee, you're done trying to insult me now (and my ex SP?) Tsk tsk...that's classy of you.
Keep your promise for the sake of these nice Bogley folks, please.

Sorry all ya'll for that nasty digression....

And Lee, I should've just kept my mouth shut and not mentioned how much you annoyed me. In all honesty, every time "we" get into it, I kind of end up feeling sorry for you toward the end. I hope you find some peace and closure to all that stuff that's still eating away at you...I really do.

[Felicia]

Ouch! Tom Jones should hardly be considered a student! [/quote]

Well I don't post here very often, I leave the site to my wife Felicia....she loves the place. But when she told me about this thread I just couldn't resist.

Lots of people on this site my not have had the opportunity to have spent time around Tom, Shane, and Rich. So just in cause some of those people are wondering just who to believe, here is my experience with each.

I have been luckey enough to have done about 5 canyons with Tom. If it wasn't for him I would still be doing just the Subway. Tom introduced us to the next level of canyons and did so in a way that we never felt like total nubies. Its hard to break all the years of climbing and learn a different way of doing things. We learned so much and the best part was we had so much fun at the same time. He deserves the title of Emporer both for his ability and his teaching style.

Before Tom we meet Shane. Our first trip down the Subway from the top was with him and his whole family. What a joy that was. His wife and kids were so much fun to spend the day with, except that his kids hiked too fast and made us look bad. Since then we have done several canyons with him and look forward to doing more. We found him to be knowledgable, very safety oriented, and we learned a lot. We are happy to call him a friend.

Met Rich first time at a slide show in California. After the show we hung around to ask a few questions about a up and coming ACA anchor clinic.
While listening to his answers to some of the questions being asked by other guests, he twice made derogatory comments about Shane. Since they weren't solicited by anyone it surprised us, but we signed up for the clinic anyway, besides it was free.

The clinic was at Stoney Point in califirnia. Windy as hell that day. Clinic was fun and educational and we were enjoying ourselves until, once again Rich began ragging on Shane in front of the other participants. Feeling I had to set the record straight, and always ready to give my opinion, I raised my hand and announced to the group that our experiences with Shane were great. That he was fun, his family was a blast, we had learned a lot from him, and to check out his website.

After the clinic Rich asked us where we had learned or gained our canyoneering experience. Shane and Tom we replied. Rich told us that Tom was a seamstress and that we had learned from the student instead of the teacher. I told him there were lots of egos out there and plenty to be learned from everyone. The reply was Shane is going to kill someone.
Being aware we were guests at his clinic, we disagreed, then made our exit with a really bad taste in our mouth for the ACA.

These events happened quite awhile. Again I am only posting for the benefit of those who may not yet had the opportunity of meeting this people first hand. Tom and Shane are very different in both their personalities and there approachs, something to be gained from spending time with both.

Rich, we have never participated in any of the ACA events since. Too bad because we think it has something to offer. Its your arrogance and attacks on others that keeps us away. Damn, we like the ACA's Tshirts too. The one thing you do better than Tom and we can't bring ourselves to buy one.

Tom would you please put the picture on the back of your shirts...........

John

[denaliguide]

nice drill!! does it plug into the cigarette lighter and recharge while driving from canyon to canyon? :2thumbs:

[rcwild]

Too bad life doesn't come with a rewind button. For the part I played in this nasty thread, please accept my apologies.

For those of you who knew what was really going on in my life, thank you for your thoughts and prayers. My daughter returned home safely today. Much sleep to catch up on now.

[rcwild]

Rich told us that Tom was a seamstress and that we had learned from the student instead of the teacher.

That must have been quite a while ago if Tom was still working as a seamstress at BD. I'm sure I made the comment with a smile on my face. Sorry to hear you didn't find it amusing.

[ratagonia]

Too bad life doesn't come with a rewind button. For the part I played in this nasty thread, please accept my apologies.

For those of you who knew what was really going on in my life, thank you for your thoughts and prayers. My daughter returned home safely today. Much sleep to catch up on now.

We've all said things we have regretted from time to time, especially when under stress. I take no offense on the day's activity, and hope others will take as little as possible. Best wishes for working things out with your daughter.

Tom

[ratagonia]

Rich told us that Tom was a seamstress and that we had learned from the student instead of the teacher.

That must have been quite a while ago if Tom was still working as a seamstress at BD. I'm sure I made the comment with a smile on my face. Sorry to hear you didn't find it amusing.

Rich does have a way of making inside jokes in front on inappropriate audiences...

And yes, I am quite a stitcher, when the mood strikes. :rockon:

Tom

[Scott Card]

And yes, I am quite a stitcher, when the mood strikes. :rockon:

Tom

Can you say clipster??? :2thumbs: And please stitch up a longer one for the final rap in Heaps. :popcorn:

[Sombeech]

I only go to the Rubbish Bin to look at the pictures!

:roflol: :roflol:

:2thumbs:

I must say, I've been hearing the buzz about this thread. I usually roll my eyes when I hear the words "drama" and "canyoneering", but at 1:00 a.m. I finished a project and gave it a good read.

Wow, just wow. But I've gotta say, Lee's phrase above was probably the most logical one made in this entire thread.

All this bitching about seniority. :roll: Too bad. I'm glad I don't have to check my seniority chart when I hop on a bike.

[skianddive]

What are you trying to say Hank? That gay chubby dating is about as interesting (or more so) than Lee & Randi poop?
Not trying to start rumors, Randi, but it was you who just admitted that you weren

[skianddive]

I only go to the Rubbish Bin to look at the pictures!

Wow, just wow. But I've gotta say, Lee's phrase above was probably the most logical one made in this entire thread.
And I just want to say thanks to the mod who named this thread "Canyon Folks". Now it kinda feels all cozy like a Prarie Home Companion show. :feelgood:

[tanya]

I only go to the Rubbish Bin to look at the pictures!

Wow, just wow. But I've gotta say, Lee's phrase above was probably the most logical one made in this entire thread.
And I just want to say thanks to the mod who named this thread "Canyon Folks". Now it kinda feels all cozy like a Prarie Home Companion show. :feelgood:

You are welcome! :five:

[cp0915]

I love this thread, if only because I'm sitting here bored at work - itching to hit the road to Zion in a few hours.

Thankfully, I naively dwell in my own little niche, oblivious to all the history and bad blood between folks in this small, incestuous, competitive, ego-driven, I know-more-than-you canyoneering world. And there's something beautiful in not giving a shit about any of it. I'm in it for the fun, the journey, the thrill of the hunt, the sense of peace I get when I'm in the wild. And I enjoy everyone until they give me a reason not to...then I still try my best to enjoy them.

I think we're all students.

[Reedus]

Touche` to Cp0915 above. Couldn't agree more. :five:

[Iceaxe]

Thankfully, I naively dwell in my own little niche, oblivious to all the history and bad blood between folks in this small, incestuous, competitive, ego-driven, I know-more-than-you canyoneering world. And there's something beautiful in not giving a shit about any of it. I'm in it for the fun, the journey, the thrill of the hunt, the sense of peace I get when I'm in the wild. And I enjoy everyone until they give me a reason not to...then I still try my best to enjoy them.


:2thumbs: Thanks Courtney for remembering what's really important.

:popcorn:

[Randi]

I love this thread, if only because I'm sitting here bored at work - itching to hit the road to Zion in a few hours.

Thankfully, I naively dwell in my own little niche, oblivious to all the history and bad blood between folks in this small, incestuous, competitive, ego-driven, I know-more-than-you canyoneering world. And there's something beautiful in not giving a shit about any of it. I'm in it for the fun, the journey, the thrill of the hunt, the sense of peace I get when I'm in the wild. And I enjoy everyone until they give me a reason not to...then I still try my best to enjoy them.

I think we're all students.

Right on Courtney! :five:
Thanks for this enlightening, and beautifully poignant reminder of what's important, and the fact that we're all students...that's so TRUE. I can't wait to bask in the zen of Zion!!!!!

Wearing your psychedelic T-shirt?
I'm wearing my psychedelic pants! :mrgreen:

ONLY 6 more hours!!!! : /

[ratagonia]

And I just want to say thanks to the mod who named this thread "Canyon Folks". Now it kinda feels all cozy like a Prarie Home Companion show. :feelgood:

It's been a quiet week in Lake Bogley. A food fight broke out in the Chatterbox Cafe, with the usual grumpies bringing up events from 20 years ago...

etc.

Tom

[cp0915]

I love this thread, if only because I'm sitting here bored at work - itching to hit the road to Zion in a few hours.

Thankfully, I naively dwell in my own little niche, oblivious to all the history and bad blood between folks in this small, incestuous, competitive, ego-driven, I know-more-than-you canyoneering world. And there's something beautiful in not giving a shit about any of it. I'm in it for the fun, the journey, the thrill of the hunt, the sense of peace I get when I'm in the wild. And I enjoy everyone until they give me a reason not to...then I still try my best to enjoy them.

I think we're all students.

Right on Courtney! :five:
Thanks for this enlightening, and beautifully poignant reminder of what's important, and the fact that we're all students...that's so TRUE. I can't wait to bask in the zen of Zion!!!!!

Wearing your psychedelic T-shirt?
I'm wearing my psychedelic pants! :mrgreen:

ONLY 6 more hours!!!! : /

Would you believe that my last tye-dye shirt finally got so torn to shreds that I was getting little speckles of sunburn through the various holes in it? And last weekend, a gaping hole materialized near the right shoulder. DB finally put her foot down and retired it...right to a trashcan. Another one, a brilliantly-colored one with a huge 'Steal Your Face' logo, should be arriving via USPS any day now...

[tanya]

And I just want to say thanks to the mod who named this thread "Canyon Folks". Now it kinda feels all cozy like a Prarie Home Companion show. :feelgood:

It's been a quiet week in Lake Bogley. A food fight broke out in the Chatterbox Cafe, with the usual grumpies bringing up events from 20 years ago...

etc.

Tom

Wow! You guys are really getting old! :mrgreen: :moses:

[Randi]

Wearing your psychedelic T-shirt?
I'm wearing my psychedelic pants! :mrgreen:



Would you believe that my last tye-dye shirt finally got so torn to shreds that I was getting little speckles of sunburn through the various holes in it? And last weekend, a gaping hole materialized near the right shoulder. DB finally put her foot down and retired it...right to a trashcan. Another one, a brilliantly colored one with a huge 'Steal Your Face' logo, should be arriving via USPS any day now...

I CAN believe it! The pictures that Tanya posted of you in the holy-tye-dye showed evidence of overuse and it was clear that it was very near time for a proper burial or burning. I'm not surprised that DB retired it! :nod:

YOU are gonna LOVE my pants! I had these things sittin in a drawer for the longest time (I was too lazy to sew em by hand) but now I have a sewing machine and I gotta a new cool pair of colorful pants to wear! :)
Bummer bout your shirt though...now I'm gonna feel outta place...all psychedelic lookin. Does DB have any psychedelic clothes she can wear? :hippy:

Hey, check your "other" e-mail - it's important! I sent you a message from my work e-mail.

[cp0915]

Naaah, she hasn't bought into the whole tye-dye thing, though she can groove to String Cheese with the best of 'em! She still thinks tye-dye's a little "busy."

Checking my email now...

[Iceaxe]

Wow! You guys are really getting old! :mrgreen: :moses:

Tom is exaggerating..... most of this crap is only 10 years old. :lol8:

But yeah

[skianddive]

It's been a quiet week in Lake Bogley. A food fight broke out in the Chatterbox Cafe, with the usual grumpies bringing up events from 20 years ago...etc.
Hadn't you heard, Tom??

http://tinyurl.com/5mlo5r

Dear Garrison
They've abruptly shut down the Chatterbox. Did you know they were going to do this? Did you give permission or approval? Do you know why they did it?

John W.
Marblehead, MA

I asked the website manager to shut down the Chatterbox so as to give it a rest, John. It's become a rather tiny inbred chat room and not particularly interesting. I hadn't looked at it for years and then one day I did and I found the chitchat sort of dopey, nothing inviting to an outsider surfing by, nothing relevant to anything that takes place on the show or on public radio, just a tiny club of cronies ribbing each other. So we'll give it a rest and try to figure out how to run an interactive room in which people can speak freely but where private chatter is edited out. So shoot me. I thought it was dumb.