Subway 4/19

[trackrunner]

My first canyon of the year. :banana: :banana: The original trail report is 8 pages essay. :blahblah: I will write a small cliff notes version. Sorry no pictures. When I get my friend

[Felicia]

Wow! Interesting way to do the Subway. :lol8:

Ya gotta try and get the pictures. I would love to see that much water.

Great write-up and I hope you get back there agian. I never get tired of that place. :2thumbs:

:popcorn:

ps: What happen to the shoeless guy?

[tanya]

You are such a character! I have a feeling you are going to be a blast at the parties. :lol8:

[trackrunner]

Wow! Interesting way to do the Subway. :lol8:

Ya gotta try and get the pictures. I would love to see that much water.

Great write-up and I hope you get back there agian. I never get tired of that place. :2thumbs:

I agree the extra water made it more challenging. If anyone goes don't make the mistake the freshmen made. They only had a rope, no wetsuit, no harnesses. I personally think the problem I had should be avoided. Current too fast, no way to avoid the waterfall. Take the high traverse ledge to avoid the portion until the water force tames down. But if you want the challenge go for it. Don't get sucked into the waterfall. Right now the water is deep enough if you fall in. But of course that could change anytime soon, or a big boulder could wash down causing you to break your leg.

Yes I need pics because it is worthless without pics. I think it will be a while before I get them though. I'd go back today if I could.



What happen to the shoeless guy?

This is from my 8 page TR:


Just then a group of two coming down catches us. They are not wearing wetsuits. One has a tank top the other a cotton shirt, but at least both were wearing quick drying swimsuits. One of them is not wearing shoes. I think he must be warming up his cold feet in the warm sun and rock like me. He comes over to me. We talk about the hike. He tells me he lost his shoes at the last water fall trying to do what we did. WTF did you just say! What you lost your shoes and now you are going to have to hike out barefoot? Yes. Damn . . . Well good luck. We rap down through the arch to a pool waist deep left down canyon, and spot the noobs as they descend. I and my friend wait in the corridor helping out the noobs. But my feet soon get cold. I head down canyon to find the warmth.

. . .


We pass bottom up hikers that are heading up or heading back. We see the shoeless canyoneer resting his aching feet; sorry I need my shoes for the hike out. Two-by-two we pass some of the college freshmen. Interesting how they segregated themselves into male & female pares hiding in the bushes, college freshmen. The freshmen pass us running, but we continue pushing on at our good clip. Now we pass all the freshmen huddled around resting on some boulders. Again we just push on at our pace.

Maybe I should have asked if he wanted SAR to bring him some shoes.

[Iceaxe]

I unwind my panties and reach for my sunglasses.

CLASSIC!!!! :lol8:

:2thumbs:

[Alex]

Great TR man, very entertaining, thanks!

[Deathcricket]

Nice TR man. I like your style of writing, very entertaining. I've never been in it with that kind of flow, sounds fun. I'm glad the shorty was ok for you. I would have felt bad if you froze your ass off.

You forgot to cover the exit path, IMO that's one of the harshest parts of the trip. Of course I'm in poor shape, so it's probably not that bad for others.
:2thumbs:

If you want to post your 8 page report, I'm sure a couple of us (myself included) would read it. Sounds awesome.

[trackrunner]

Nice TR man. I like your style of writing, very entertaining. I've never been in it with that kind of flow, sounds fun. I'm glad the shorty was ok for you. I would have felt bad if you froze your ass off.

You forgot to cover the exit path, IMO that's one of the harshest parts of the trip. Of course I'm in poor shape, so it's probably not that bad for others.
:2thumbs:

If you want to post your 8 page report, I'm sure a couple of us (myself included) would read it. Sounds awesome.

This was my orginal exit.

Like the good distance runners that we are we pick a good pace, not a fast running pace like the college freshmen. We stop to only take pictures of the Red Waterfall Cascades, miss the dino tracks (shoot, have to save that for another time).

We pass several bottom up hikers, that are heading up or heading back. We see the shoeless canyoneer resting his aching feet; sorry I need my shoes for the hike out. Two-by-two we pass the noobs. Interesting how they segregated themselves into male & female pares hiding in the bushes, college freshmen. The noobs pass us running, but we continue pushing on at our good clip. Again we pass the noobs huddled around resting on some boulders. Again we just push on at our pace.

After a long hike out we come to the base of the black volcanic cliff. I

[tanya]

[quote=trackrunner]I wish I hadn

[Bo_Beck]

:cold: Tell them the beta I had received from Bo Beck as caution, but they push on. :clap: :party: :fishing:

I hope that the beta I gave to you wasn't something like " :ne_nau: Wetsuit? nah, we don't need no stinking wetsuit!? :haha: "

[tanya]

:cold: Tell them the beta I had received from Bo Beck as caution, but they push on. :clap: :party: :fishing:

I hope that the beta I gave to you wasn't something like " :ne_nau: Wetsuit? nah, we don't need no stinking wetsuit!? :haha: "


Shaun - Is that boulder gone you mentioned? Do we need to update our trail report of Das Boot?

I don't even want to think of Das Boot without Neoprene socks let alone Wetsuits!

[Scott Card]

If I'm a bettin' man, which I am not, I would bet that he stemed out past that boulder when he fell in the pool. Isn't that boulder directly below the down climb? Again, my guess is that he went horizontal a couple of feet and cleared the boulder when he fell. :ne_nau:

Great write up. I swear I can't believe that folks do this hike this time of year without a wet suit. The wet suit makes it enjoyable so you can actually look around and see the beauty. When you are frozen, you have one thought in mind, if you even have a thought in mind, and that is when is this stupid hike over.

[trackrunner]

If I'm a bettin' man, which I am not, I would bet that he stemed out past that boulder when he fell in the pool. Isn't that boulder directly below the down climb? Again, my guess is that he went horizontal a couple of feet and cleared the boulder when he fell. :ne_nau:

Yes. Plus it was deep water, very deep. You know the boulder, sometimes called the bowling ball, you swim under in the same narrow coridor. Well in the pics I've seen you swim look up and there is a boulder wedged up high. Well I had to swim under it. Not look up while swimming. I swam under it.

For comparison this is tanya's photo off her site. I had to hold my breath and swim under that boulder. That's how high the water is.
http://www.zionnational-park.com/images/album2/images/subway-n_jpg.jpg


Great write up. I swear I can't believe that folks do this hike this time of year without a wet suit. The wet suit makes it enjoyable so you can actually look around and see the beauty. When you are frozen, you have one thought in mind, if you even have a thought in mind, and that is when is this stupid hike over.
Yes I was glad I had a wetsuit on. If you go anytime soon wetsuits are a must. Summer shorty was just fine. :nod:

[trackrunner]

:cold: Tell them the beta I had received from Bo Beck as caution, but they push on. :clap: :party: :fishing:

I hope that the beta I gave to you wasn't something like " :ne_nau: Wetsuit? nah, we don't need no stinking wetsuit!? :haha: "

No the beta was some guy did it without wetsuit and wished he had one, also the water was flowing and cold. That is true. I was glad I did have a wetsuit. I wish I had brought neoprene socks. Though stoping on the sand beaches to warm up my feet was a good. My friend that brought neoprene socks had to stop to warm up his feet. I bet he had too thin of noprene socks. What are good thinkness, anyone?



Shaun - Is that boulder gone you mentioned? Do we need to update our trail report of Das Boot?

I don't even want to think of Das Boot without Neoprene socks let alone Wetsuits!
I didn't do Das Boot. I did the standard Subway route.

[UtahAdventureGuide]

Hey, Thanks for the TR. I plan on doing the Subway this weekend. I did it a couple years ago when the flow was over 1,500 CFS out of North Fork. Here are some pictures and our TR.

http://canyonwiki.com/wiki/index.php/The_Subway

Here's a picture and video of keyhole when we did it.

http://canyonwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Keyhole_Falls

can you tell me if there was just as much water when you did it?

pictures would be helpful.

Thanks

[trackrunner]

Hey, Thanks for the TR. I plan on doing the Subway this weekend. I did it a couple years ago when the flow was over 1,500 CFS out of North Fork. Here are some pictures and our TR.

http://canyonwiki.com/wiki/index.php/The_Subway

Here's a picture and video of keyhole when we did it.

http://canyonwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Keyhole_Falls

can you tell me if there was just as much water when you did it?

pictures would be helpful.

Thanks
It's hard to tell looking at the pictures I'd say your adventure through had a little more current.

Note the Wildcat trail/Northgate trail not all the snow had melted, vast majority in the sun area had. The tree covered areas still had some snow. Walking in the slick rock drainage areas had a small trickle. There would be more snow higher up in elevation. Only recently has Southern Utah had exceptionally warm tempters. When we went it was the first 80 day for St. George, most of the other times it was 70 or high 60's. More of the snow is melting now; how much, I don

[Ryebrye]

Because of the current and water I'd advise not to down-climb or jump the rappels. If there was current through the narrow section (2nd technical section) skip on it and go up high on the bypass, left side canyon. The rappel in there has a hydraulic (weak at the time, but scary when not expecting it) and retreat back up canyon was impossible,

I was on that death march in 2005- (I'm the one who took those pictures)... The water was chest deep in the section leading up to the keyhole falls, and waist-deep in the section immediatley before the falls.

For us, it was less risky to do some crazy highball retreats up the side of the canyon than it was to try to get down Keyhole falls. It was some really sketchy upclimbing, and to this day is probably the most dangerous thing I have ever done in my life.

That being said - if anyone does ever get near keyhole falls and sees the water is too high, retreat back and there is a ledge on the lefthand side (left-hand when you are going back upcanyon) with a big tree growing out of it about 20 feet up there that is an adequate bivy spot if you are absolutely unable to get past the keyhole falls.

That being said - sounds like it's in prime conditions!

[UtahAdventureGuide]

[quote=trackrunner]After my meltdown :kboom: I unwind my panties and reach for my sunglasses. Oh-no! I lost it in the waterfall. We look and soon realize my expensive sunglasses are long gone (If you find them, I want them back it was a birthday present from my wife). :cry1: I

[trackrunner]

[quote=UtahAdventureGuide][quote=trackrunner]After my meltdown :kboom: I unwind my panties and reach for my sunglasses. Oh-no! I lost it in the waterfall. We look and soon realize my expensive sunglasses are long gone (If you find them, I want them back it was a birthday present from my wife). :cry1: I

[Iceaxe]

Did the Subway on Saturday, unfortunately I did not find your sunglasses but I did pick up a single Nike tennis shoe. If whoever lost it wants it back just let me know. If i don't hear anything in a couple weeks I'll list it on ebay. :razz:

Das Boot.... err... I mean Das Shoe....

:lol8:

[UtahAdventureGuide]

http://svn.simplesvn.com/subway/Thumbnails/109.jpg

[tanya]

[quote=trackrunner] A Shorty wetsuit was fine by me, don

[ratagonia]

Some good socks are important this time of year. The ones I wore this weekend were not so great! My feet froze, so did another guys who had on some super thick ones.

What did you wear that did not work? In cold water conditions, those 5mm ones that ZAC sells work real well, but the sizing is kind of messed up.

Tom

[tanya]

They were some of Bo's and they keep his feet warm. I guess I am just cold footed, but I think they were only 1mm. I had lost my 2mm NRS socks but Bo emailed and said he found them. I stayed pretty warm with those in places like Das Boot.

http://nrsweb.resultspage.com/boating/Neoprene%20Socks

Bo ordered me some even warmer ones just in case I follow Ram through one of his icy adventures next week. :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: I might stop by ZAC on Friday and get a pair of those 5mm socks!

Even though it scares me when men carry axes through canyons to chop through the snow. :mrgreen:

The Bushwhackers feet were same as mine.... foot numb and stiff.. really cold, and he had on really thick socks. The canyon itself was not all that cold though? I don't know why our feet actually were that bad? Bo did not even have on neoprene socks and never complained.

[Scott Card]

Ya'll probably know this but just in case someone like me is playing along, I found that my feet are much warmer and the wet suit slides on easier if the neo socks are put on BEFORE the wet suit. The tight cuff around the ankle acts as a seal that allows less water flow in and out the neo socks. I remember in Late October or early November a couple of years back in Heaps I had a 7mm wet suit and I think 5mm socks and I swear I didn't feel a thing on my feet. I think they got wet. I think. My feet were toasty all day long. I can't say that for the rest of the body.

[tanya]

Ya'll probably know this but just in case someone like me is playing along, I found that my feet are much warmer and the wet suit slides on easier if the neo socks are put on BEFORE the wet suit. The tight cuff around the ankle acts as a seal that allows less water flow in and out the neo socks. I remember in Late October or early November a couple of years back in Heaps I had a 7mm wet suit and I think 5mm socks and I swear I didn't feel a thing on my feet. I think they got wet. I think. My feet were toasty all day long. I can't say that for the rest of the body.


Actually I did not know that! I did it the other way around! Thanks! I want to know anything to keep me warmer. While we are at it what is the best thing, that is light, compact and easy to carry, to wear under a drysuit? Bo wears a spandex like thing but he never gets cold.

[UtahAdventureGuide]

I wear a NRS Extreme drysuit, I usually wear a thin tight under armor shirt and a light weight fleece sweater. the further you can keep the drysuit material away from your skin the warmer you will be. I also wear the NRS 5 mm socks, the are very warm.

[tanya]

http://www.gobros.com/cat/Under-Armour-Cold-Gear-100609-Womens-pg1.html

Like this stuff?

[Bo_Beck]

Ya'll probably know this but just in case someone like me is playing along, I found that my feet are much warmer and the wet suit slides on easier if the neo socks are put on BEFORE the wet suit. The tight cuff around the ankle acts as a seal that allows less water flow in and out the neo socks. I remember in Late October or early November a couple of years back in Heaps I had a 7mm wet suit and I think 5mm socks and I swear I didn't feel a thing on my feet. I think they got wet. I think. My feet were toasty all day long. I can't say that for the rest of the body.


Actually I did not know that! I did it the other way around! Thanks! I want to know anything to keep me warmer. While we are at it what is the best thing, that is light, compact and easy to carry, to wear under a drysuit? Bo wears a spandex like thing but he never gets cold.

I have this 2-piece "powerstretch" 100 Wt. underwear by Lowe Alpine that I purchased 20 years ago. I'll see if I can dig it up for you to try in Misery next weekend with your new Kokatat Goretex Front entry drysuit that just arrived. The combo of this underwear and my drysuit has taken me through Heaps numerous times in sweet comfort! If it works for you, I would be able to get you the equivalent stuff by Mountain Hardwear. Very Compact, warm and more importantly WARM! :nod:

[Bo_Beck]

Ya'll probably know this but just in case someone like me is playing along, I found that my feet are much warmer and the wet suit slides on easier if the neo socks are put on BEFORE the wet suit. The tight cuff around the ankle acts as a seal that allows less water flow in and out the neo socks. I remember in Late October or early November a couple of years back in Heaps I had a 7mm wet suit and I think 5mm socks and I swear I didn't feel a thing on my feet. I think they got wet. I think. My feet were toasty all day long. I can't say that for the rest of the body.


Actually I did not know that! I did it the other way around! Thanks! I want to know anything to keep me warmer. While we are at it what is the best thing, that is light, compact and easy to carry, to wear under a drysuit? Bo wears a spandex like thing but he never gets cold.

I have this 2-piece "powerstretch" 100 Wt. underwear by Lowe Alpine that I purchased 20 years ago. I'll see if I can dig it up for you to try in Misery next weekend with your new Kokatat Goretex Front entry drysuit that just arrived. The combo of this underwear and my drysuit has taken me through Heaps numerous times in sweet comfort! If it works for you, I would be able to get you the equivalent stuff by Mountain Hardwear. Very Compact, warm and more importantly WARM! :nod:

http://www.mountainhardwear.com/Product.aspx?top=1243&prod=509&cat=1261&viewAll=False
http://www.mountainhardwear.com/Product.aspx?top=1243&prod=504&cat=1261&viewAll=False

[tanya]

Ya'll probably know this but just in case someone like me is playing along, I found that my feet are much warmer and the wet suit slides on easier if the neo socks are put on BEFORE the wet suit. The tight cuff around the ankle acts as a seal that allows less water flow in and out the neo socks. I remember in Late October or early November a couple of years back in Heaps I had a 7mm wet suit and I think 5mm socks and I swear I didn't feel a thing on my feet. I think they got wet. I think. My feet were toasty all day long. I can't say that for the rest of the body.


Actually I did not know that! I did it the other way around! Thanks! I want to know anything to keep me warmer. While we are at it what is the best thing, that is light, compact and easy to carry, to wear under a drysuit? Bo wears a spandex like thing but he never gets cold.

I have this 2-piece "powerstretch" 100 Wt. underwear by Lowe Alpine that I purchased 20 years ago. I'll see if I can dig it up for you to try in Misery next weekend with your new Kokatat Goretex Front entry drysuit that just arrived. The combo of this underwear and my drysuit has taken me through Heaps numerous times in sweet comfort! If it works for you, I would be able to get you the equivalent stuff by Mountain Hardwear. Very Compact, warm and more importantly WARM! :nod:

Perfect! Then I will hold off on my rush ordering something to wear under that!

[trackrunner]

Bump

I got a few from my friend, I'll see if I can get more with me in it. I wish the pix could show the force of the water. In the keyhole falls pic had you steped into the stream course you'd have been swept away, we rapped through the arch.

Tried my best to put the pix in order.

Good to compare our pics to the normal condition pics from Felica's TR
http://www.bogley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13156

[mmac]

Holy cow! That's a lot of water!

[tanya]

Really! That is flowing! :popcorn: :popcorn: