Starving Dog = Art

[Deathcricket]

This might belong in the political forum, if so I apologize. I'll put my cousin's response since I thought it was a great perspective. His father (my uncle) is Jeffrey Laudenslager who is a very successful artist in the San Diego area. You can google him if interested. Anyways I just thought it was better for a "successful" artist to say this isn't art, instead of some peon like myself. :) Condemnation from "peers" so to speak. I imagine most artists feel the same way.

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Hey All,

Sorry for the mass mailing, but I guess as an artist's son I'm sensitive to the use of the term art as some sort of magic absolution card allowing someone to do whatever they want. Take a look, decide for yourselves, and, if so inclined, I encourage you to sign the petition.

Thanks,
John


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Hello friends,animal lovers and members of the artist community,

This was forwarded from Trisha Crawford who is in charge of Animal Adoptions at Helen Woodward Animal Center in Rancho Santa Fe, CA. I have also checked with http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/vargas.asp(for those cynics out there) and though they havethis listed as 'undetermined', the photos make it obvious enough for me to do something as simple as sign my name and forward it to you. I hope you will do the same in regard to this horrific and vile act that some beast of a humanrefers to as ART!

Thank you,



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Subject: PLEASE SIGN!

Hello All,

This is a very serious matter...

In 2007, the 'artist' Guillermo Vargas Habacuc, took a dog from the street, tied him to a rope in an art gallery, and starved him to death. For several days, the 'artist' and the visitors of the exhibition have watched emotionless the shameful 'masterpiece' based on the dog's agony, until eventually he died.

Does it look like art to you?

But this is not all... the prestigious Visual Arts Biennial of the Central American decided that the 'installation' was actually art, so that Guillermo Vargas Habacuc has been invited to repeat his cruel action for the biennial of 2008.

PLEASE HELP STOP HIM. http://www.petitiononline.com/ea6gk/petition.html

It's free of charge, there is no need to register, and it will only take 1 minute to save the life of an innocent creature.

Thank you for your time,

[abirken]

This is very disturbing. I tried the petition link and it didn't work for me.

[tanya]

I got this part to work...
http://www.petitiononline.com/ea6gk/

[rockgremlin]

Shoot, that dog would be considered "normal" in any third world country. The streets run rampant with dogs that look identical to that one anywhere south of the Rio Grande.

Not justifying it...I'm just sayin'.

In Utah, that artist would be tried as a felon. :roll:

[marc olivares]

i've had this topic come up on another forum i surf, and my opinion remains the same. much like what Rock suggests, this is something that is common place in much of south and central america. dogs can be likened to roaches or rats in these areas. but here in the USA, we have a canine sentimentality, and like with anything "american" we for some reason must force our value system on another country. so lets raise the flag and sigh a petition...

sorry man, but i think it's valid.
cruel and unusual, YES, but if it took killing one dog to let the rest of the world see how f@&%ed up these places are then so be it.

not all art is unicorns, rainbows and fluffy clouds

and yes before this gets tossed back at me, this IS coming from a bleeding heart liberal who drove 4 hours on a work day to save some damn bird in a canyon...lol

:ne_nau:

[Deathcricket]

Interesting view. I would just say that I understand there are starving dogs in other countries that die everyday. But if they die on the street from "natural selection" where they at least have a fighting chance I'm ok with that. If some person shoots a dog because they are a pest, or carry disease, I'm ok with that.

But do it as humanely as possible, don't chain a frigging dog up, torture it and call it art. We're better than that. There is no justification for torturing any animal even a rat IMO.

[rockgremlin]

i've had this topic come up on another forum i surf, and my opinion remains the same. much like what Rock suggests, this is something that is common place in much of south and central america. dogs can be likened to roaches or rats in these areas. but here in the USA, we have a canine sentimentality, and like with anything "american" we for some reason must force our value system on another country. so lets raise the flag and sigh a petition...

sorry man, but i think it's valid.
cruel and unusual, YES, but if it took killing one dog to let the rest of the world see how f@&%ed up these places are then so be it.

not all art is unicorns, rainbows and fluffy clouds

and yes before this gets tossed back at me, this IS coming from a bleeding heart liberal who drove 4 hours on a work day to save some damn bird in a canyon...lol

:ne_nau:


Well put Marc. Once again, the United States thinks it has to come to the rescue. :roll:


Art is born of emotion, and is designed to instill emotions in others as well. I think this particular exhibit did that quite well.

From the article, it sounds like he picked the dog up off the street ("he paid some kids to pick it up off the street"). He didn't keep it chained up for days, the dog was already starving, he just didn't feed it once it was in his care.

[JP]

Art is out the window when cruelty steps up to the plate.

[R]

I have to admit, I am going back and forth on this.

I think about that individual dog, and I just want to take him home and nurse him back to health. We love our own dogs so much that when others are suffering, we want to love them, too.

Then again, there are millions of starving dogs in the world, and though it is cruel in an individual case, maybe this poor animal will save hundreds or even thousands of dogs from the same fate. Come on, if just one person spays or neuters their pet, of if just a few people go down to the pound and adopt a pet after seeing this exhibit, the exhibit resulted in a net reduction in animal suffering. Big picture.

On the third hand, I spotted some Rottweilers eyeing my goats last night, and if they actually get inside the back yard and try to kill them, I'll shoot them without hesitation.

Life is complex. Don't try to over simplify it.

[RedMan]

I'm thinking of doing a piece of art where we tie an artist to a chair and leave a large box of rocks sitting there to let people create their own art.

I think that would let people know how cruel some parts of the world are to people so its art right?

Perhaps if we put the artist in a Burka and put up a sign that says "Adulterer" it would be okay.

[marc olivares]

I'm thinking of doing a piece of art where we tie an artist to a chair and leave a large box of rocks sitting there to let people create their own art.

I think that would let people know how cruel some parts of the world are to people so its art right?

Perhaps if we put the artist in a Burka and put up a sign that says "Adulterer" it would be okay.

LOL...you state my favorite reply to this subject, and not your not the first.
i find it comical and ironic that your reaction to this cruelty is with cruelty.

"blah blah blah...he let this dog die, so lets kill him" :roflol:

how does this make you any better?
it's interesting that you equate a human life to that of a mangy dog... :ne_nau:

[R]

I was going to add a post stating (truthfully) that only vegetarians are legitimate animal rights advocates, but I figured that it would land this post in the Basement, so I refrained.

Only vegetarians are legitimate animal rights advocates.

[rockgremlin]

I was going to add a post stating (truthfully) that only vegetarians are legitimate animal rights advocates, but I figured that it would land this post in the Basement, so I refrained.

Only vegetarians are legitimate animal rights advocates.



:roflol: Ahhhh...Richard. You maka me laugh.

[MY T PIMP]

I was going to add a post stating (truthfully) that only vegetarians are legitimate animal rights advocates, but I figured that it would land this post in the Basement, so I refrained.

Only vegetarians are legitimate animal rights advocates.

Interesting view, does that also mean that only friends and family of murdered victims should have a say in the death penalty? :ne_nau:
(Phrase is only being used as an example, and not to derail thread)

[Deathcricket]

I was going to add a post stating (truthfully) that only vegetarians are legitimate animal rights advocates, but I figured that it would land this post in the Basement, so I refrained.

Only vegetarians are legitimate animal rights advocates.



:roflol: Ahhhh...Richard. You maka me laugh.

Before this thread goes to the rubbish bin. I just wanted to say that was hella funny. The little text was perfect!
:hail2thechief:

I also like Redman's idea: providing we use this "artist" in the piece. But then again I like dogs more than most humans so I'm probably jaded in my opinions.

[RedMan]

Who said I claimed to be any better?
Who said I didn't enjoy this art?

Perhaps I'd just like to see an artist pummeled by rocks.

I'm entitled to my artistic visions aren't I?

Then why are you passing judgment on me?

[R]

Only vegetarians are legitimate animal rights advocates.

Interesting view, does that also mean that only friends and family of murdered victims should have a say in the death penalty? :ne_nau:
(Phrase is only being used as an example, and not to derail thread)

No, I was just making a point about hypocrisy - you can't be part of the solution if you're part of the problem. It's hard to advocate being kind to animals and respecting their rights while at the same time you are killing them so you can eat them. It's one thing to utilize the earth's resources for your survival and success, but it's entirely another to destroy it for your pleasure, which I believe is the case for most Americans. I know that statements like that usually fall on deaf ears, because the culture of meat eating is so much a part of our society, but I do believe that be a vegetarian is the right thing for me, for all the right reasons.

If you think eating meat (the way we eat it in this country) is good for you or necessary for our survival, just take a look around...

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200707/r163150_600877.jpg

I anticipate you will flame this post mightily - it won't hurt my feelings if you do. If you do, however, please try not to do it with a chicken wing in your hand.

:soapbox:

[Shan]

Gah! This is very very sad and disturbing. They kept that poor animal tied up until it died? How could the gallery have allowed it? Isn't art about creation, not destruction? Certainly cruelty shouldn't be involved in art unless the participants are WILLING. He took away any and all chances it had. Even if it didn't have much of a chance out on the streets, this guy played god.

[tanya]

Art is out the window when cruelty steps up to the plate.

:five: Without a doubt!

[marc olivares]

Who said I claimed to be any better?
Who said I didn't enjoy this art?

Perhaps I'd just like to see an artist pummeled by rocks.

I'm entitled to my artistic visions aren't I?

Then why are you passing judgment on me?

you've written a book?
interesting, since it seems like reading comprehension isnt your strong suit
no ones "passing judgment " on you

[JP]

bleeding heart liberal who drove 4 hours on a work day to save some damn bird in a canyon...lol


i find it comical and ironic that your reaction to this cruelty is with cruelty.

"blah blah blah...he let this dog die, so lets kill him" :roflol:

how does this make you any better?
it's interesting that you equate a human life to that of a mangy dog... :ne_nau:
By no means and I'm a PETA advocate, but dogs are not cruel, nor is just about any other animal in this world. People are cruel, we are by nature. We see something cruel and unusual done to a child or a loved one, we're the first ones to jump on that bandwagon to see the same or more is placed against them. The good ole' court system is a perfect example of us making sure the bad guys gets what's coming to them.

This isn't a survival of the fittest, the dog was taken out of it's environment and depraved food and water, starved and dehydrated to death. Emaciated.

I don't know if you ever seen a dog suffer from this, it's not pleasant. There is that point of no return, but that dog is still up and around.

I don't think it makes us "BETTER" say stoning the artist, but there is that satisfaction that man knows all too well, not the animal kingdom.

Where is the art in suffering? Where is the art in being inhumane? Feed the dog a little at night so its body shut down doesn't begin. I find no art in a mangy dog being purposely starved and dehydrated or a letting a bird die is some canyon. I don't look at either of these animals as human, so there is a huge difference. Raptors ars raptors, humans are humans and dogs are dogs. If that dog fell trough some ice and died, so be it. But having it tied down to soley watch it die in the name of art is ridiculous.

Throwing rocks at the artist and the blood having medium impact spatter against the wall behind him would be perfect art :2thumbs:

[marc olivares]

wow, nothing like a shot gun response, let's focus JP, you're all over the place with that post... :ne_nau:

[denaliguide]

so you pick up a starving dog on the street and don't feed it? and call it art? thats just b.s. if you are not going to help it out then the thing to do is put it out of it's misery. to watch the suffering of this animal as art would mean that the nazi's were the greatest artists of all time.

i realize that in other parts of the world pets and dogs in particular don't hold the same place socially as they do in the u.s.. when i lived in alaska, i used to have a team of sled dogs. 13 of them to be exact. they were certainly not pets. more like livestock. but i still didn't go out and kick them or starve them.

p.s. to describe me as a liberal would be a gross miscaracture (sp). my wife calls me her jack booted thug conservative.

[JP]

Not really. Stavring an animal and calling it art.

[denaliguide]

richard,

just because we kill and eat animals doesn't mean that we can't treat them well humanely. after all man is a carnivore. and eating meat is not what makes you fat. its just plain eating too much. nice try though.

i could almost be a vegatarian. just that vegetables don't bleed enough for me.

[marc olivares]

so you pick up a starving dog on the street and don't feed it? and call it art? thats just b.s. if you are not going to help it out then the thing to do is put it out of it's misery. to watch the suffering of this animal as art would mean that the nazi's were the greatest artists of all time.

now we're finally getting somewhere

why is there such condemnation for the "artist" and not for those that patronized the gallery?
at any point in time, someone could have done something, and they did nothing. no one helped that dog and it died. it's not just the "artists" fault, it's everyone who witnessed it as well.

my point with the "bird" correlation, is that even though i do consider this "art", i'm also someone who did something when no one else would.
(alex not encluded :) )

this is an interesting example of human behavior and in it's extreme sense "art". you may not agree with it, but i think it's valid.

[R]

richard,

just because we kill and eat animals doesn't mean that we can't treat them well humanely. after all man is a carnivore. and eating meat is not what makes you fat. its just plain eating too much. nice try though.

i could almost be a vegatarian. just that vegetables don't bleed enough for me.

Well, it would be nice if we treated our food animals humanely, but modern livestock is treated with great cruelty. You'd have to be living in some sort of incredibly naive fantasy world to imagine that chickens, for example, are treated well before they are slaughtered. In fact, they are debeaked, then crammed into huge buildings with up to 200,000 other birds, in cages that allow them no movement and often damage their feet.

The situations for other livestock animals isn't much better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory_farming

[denaliguide]

richard,

just because we kill and eat animals doesn't mean that we can't treat them well humanely. after all man is a carnivore. and eating meat is not what makes you fat. its just plain eating too much. nice try though.

i could almost be a vegatarian. just that vegetables don't bleed enough for me.

Well, it would be nice if we treated our food animals humanely, but modern livestock is treated with great cruelty. You'd have to be living in some sort of incredibly naive fantasy world to imagine that chickens, for example, are treated well before they are slaughtered. In fact, they are debeaked, then crammed into huge buildings with up to 200,000 other birds, in cages that allow them no movement and often damage their feet.

The situations for other livestock animals isn't much better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory_farming

naive? not likely.

i understand that factory farming is not humane. i don't buy veal becausse of the conditions in which a large portion of the calves are raised.

which is why i either buy free range when possible or preferably kill my own meat.

you also forgot to mention that besides being debeaked the chickens have been genetically modified to have few if any feathers. makes for easier plucking.

animal treatment does have room for improvement.

but to get back on track with the original thread. if i were to see this art form in some gallery i would have to go up and unchain the dog and take it home with me. damn the gallery and the artist and everyone who looked on and didn't do anything.

[R]

richard,

just because we kill and eat animals doesn't mean that we can't treat them well humanely. after all man is a carnivore. and eating meat is not what makes you fat. its just plain eating too much. nice try though.

i could almost be a vegatarian. just that vegetables don't bleed enough for me.

naive? not likely.

i understand that factory farming is not humane. i don't buy veal becausse of the conditions in which a large portion of the calves are raised.

which is why i either buy free range when possible or preferably kill my own meat.

you also forgot to mention that besides being debeaked the chickens have been genetically modified to have few if any feathers. makes for easier plucking.

animal treatment does have room for improvement.

but to get back on track with the original thread. if i were to see this art form in some gallery i would have to go up and unchain the dog and take it home with me. damn the gallery and the artist and everyone who looked on and didn't do anything.

I can appreciate killing your own food. There is a certain natural synergy in that. I have always been moved by the ancient native American tradition of thanking the beast they have just killed.

I can also appreciate the idea of taking that poor dog home. I know my wife would never object to it, since she is the biggest animal lover I have ever known. In my previous responses I wasn't trying to justify the artist's actions. Ultimately they are his to own. I guess I was just trying to look at a bright side, if there is any. I think that everyone who witnessed this animal's suffering was, hopefully, moved by it, and in the end will be kinder to some animal sometime.

For anyone who advocates cruelty to punish cruelty, please consider the words of Mahatma Ghandhi: "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."