Family of bear attack victim files lawsuits

[Mtnman1830]

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=2955918

(KSL News) The Utah County family of a boy killed by a bear during a camping trip last summer has filed two lawsuits against both the state of Utah and the federal government.

The parents of Sam Ives announced the lawsuit this morning, claiming that no adequate warning was given about bears that had been seen in the area where they were camping. They say there should have been a better warning system because a bear had caused problems for another family just a few hours before.

"The state failed to warn potential users of the campground where Sam Ives was killed of the imminent danger of a so-called level three nuisance black bear," said Allen Young, the plaintiffs' attorney.

After the attack, the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources maintained it handled the situation correctly, although the agency is now reviewing the state's bear policy.

Wildlife officials eventually killed the bear that attacked the boy 12 hours after the attack.






<<<WARNING>>>>
Wild animals have been known to live in the same places us humans like to recreate.

I thought this was common knowledge.

[shlingdawg]

Money money money. I want money. Money money money money. Money. Also, I'd like some money with some money on top. Then, give me more money with a side order of money. I'd like to Biggie size my order for lots and lots of money.

Money.

[Sombeech]

I doubt they'll get much money from that bear.

[RedMan]

Unfortunately it probably means as soon as someone spots wildlife anywhere near a campground they will close it down.

...and as I recall "The Three Bears" had a house. Thats and Asset my friend.

[hank moon]

up next : weather suits!

seriously, though...

it sounds as if more could have been done to warn of the nuisance bear.

[shlingdawg]

I'd really like to read a news story about someone that straight up accepted personal responsibility for stuff that happens. When in nature, accept those things that are natural.

It's always someone elses fault. :frustrated:

[sparker1]

Law suits like this one are, IMHO, evidence of the greed that permeates our society at this time. It doesn't matter in most cases whether there is a legitimate basis for the suit, the government frequently settles because juries scare the sh*t out of them. Those bringing suit don't seem to realize it is all of us being punished. The individuals who were negligent, if indeed anyone was, will never be made to pay.

[JP]

Wild animals have been known to live in the same places us humans like to recreate.

I thought this was common knowledge.
Me too :ne_nau:

[RugerShooter]

I would LOVE to be on the Jury that hears this case I wouldn't give them a DAMN dime they don't deserve it, yes it is sad that they lost their child. But give me a break. NOBODY is responsible for this bears are wild animals that live in the mountains and when you camp in them there mountains you might come accrossed one. If I get bit by a rattlesnake while hiking can I sue the state/county because it was their??? Where does it end. :frustrated: :frustrated:

[trackrunner]

I'm not going to state my opinion yet. So don't attack me but . . .

I am curious what others think about the fact the same bear attacked campers at the exact same campsite the day before. Does the forest service rangers/state rangers (which ever jurisdiction the land this is on) have any responsibility to notify campers or exterminate the bear?

How would you feel if it was your son killed and you found out the ranger never told you this beforehand? Sometimes you can understand people better if you try to put yourself in their shoes.

[Gutpiler_Utahn]

I'm not going to state my opinion yet. So don't attack me but . . .

I am curious what others think about the fact the same bear attacked campers at the exact same campsite the day before. Does the forest service rangers/state rangers (which ever jurisdiction the land this is on) have any responsibility to notify campers or exterminate the bear?

How would you feel if it was your son killed and you found out the ranger never told you this beforehand? Sometimes you can understand people better if you try to put yourself in their shoes.

I have to agree with you here, trackrunner. I don't think the family should get anything, but if it were me, I'd want there to be changes and a public appology made. If the bear was known to be such a threat and in the area, the campers should have been warned. If a tornado strikes an area and nobody ever sets off the alarm, you can bet lawsuits will follow for gross negligence and policies will be changed as a result.

[trackrunner]

I have to agree with you here, trackrunner. I don't think the family should get anything, but if it were me, I'd want there to be changes and a public appology made. If the bear was known to be such a threat and in the area, the campers should have been warned. If a tornado strikes an area and nobody ever sets off the alarm, you can bet lawsuits will follow for gross negligence and policies will be changed as a result.
Strike lawsuits try and accomplish this. Though this does not appear to be a strike lawsuit. But it could accomplish the same thing.

[JP]

It said a bear had caused problems for another family just a few hours before. It never stated that bear tried to kill prior, animal behavior just cannot be predicted. You have to assume some type of responsibility heading out into the woods engaging in your activities.

[Rev. Coyote]

Trotting out a dead kid to win money in court is almost as politically lame as trotting out a redneck in a wheelchair to pitch an anti-wilderness agenda!

(God forgive me for making a joke about the redneck int he wheelchair and please be with the starvin' pygmies in New Guinea. Amen.)

[MY T PIMP]

From the sound of all your posts, I don't think any of you has had the great experience of having one of your children die! Well I know people who have lost kids, including my own parents, as well as another friend. And from what those experiences have taught me alone I highly doubt this is primarily about money! I wouldn't wish a kid diing on my worst enemy, much less this poor family.
I've seen the place of the attack, It is not far from major civilization. At that time the likely hood of encountering bears there, was as likely as you encountering one up on Monte Cristo mountain. Those of you who know Monte know there are few if any bears up there.
I don't know what to think about the law suit, other than I have no right to judge this family because of it, and nor should you!

[Rev. Coyote]

From the sound of all your posts, I don't think any of you has had the great experience of having one of your children die! Well I know people who have lost kids, including my own parents, as well as another friend. And from what those experiences have taught me alone I highly doubt this is primarily about money! I wouldn't wish a kid diing on my worst enemy, much less this poor family.
I've seen the place of the attack, It is not far from major civilization. At that time the likely hood of encountering bears there, was as likely as you encountering one up on Monte Cristo mountain. Those of you who know Monte know there are few if any bears up there.
I don't know what to think about the law suit, other than I have no right to judge this family because of it, and nor should you!

In all seriousness, the suit is frivolous and baseless.

That said, the parents are doing this probably as an outgrowth of the "anger phase" of mourning. It's understandable on that level.

[Gutpiler_Utahn]

From the sound of all your posts, I don't think any of you has had the great experience of having one of your children die! Well I know people who have lost kids, including my own parents, as well as another friend. And from what those experiences have taught me alone I highly doubt this is primarily about money! I wouldn't wish a kid diing on my worst enemy, much less this poor family.
I've seen the place of the attack, It is not far from major civilization. At that time the likely hood of encountering bears there, was as likely as you encountering one up on Monte Cristo mountain. Those of you who know Monte know there are few if any bears up there.
I don't know what to think about the law suit, other than I have no right to judge this family because of it, and nor should you!

Actually, my first son died in his infancy. That's not the point though. I believe this isn't about the money. Any parent worthy of BEING a parent would give every dime on earth to get their child back. I can only assume that as the Reverend stated, this is probably them lashing out in an attempt satisfy their need to place blame. I still think the agency responsible for the area was negligent by not warning folks that a level 3 nuissance bear (which I understand to mean the bear is not afraid of people and is to be considered dangerous) was in the area. I would want to know if it were me. :ne_nau:

[denaliguide]

i have spent many nights camped out in the wilds of alaska during fishing season. one beach in particular has a couple of bears that are always there. i know this from experience.

i have my coolers raided on more than one occasion. again i know this from experience. i take as much care as i reasonably can to keep them out. as well as keeping all food away from where i sleep.

do i need a sign to tell me there are bears in the area? no! there are always the possibility of bears in the area.

do i pay attention when i am camping? absolutely.
doesn't matter where i am.

are there any signs warning people of bears in the area. no! should there be? no!

anytime someone is out camping they should be alert for wild animals.

in anchorage there are bears and moose that wander the streets occasionally. shows that even in a urban setting you can run into them.

i'm willing to bet there a lawyer whos behind this suit. (i know a rash generalization of lawyers.)

[RedMan]

My bigger concern is how the USFS reacts to this.

They have a real tendency to simply close things if they perceive a potential problem.

I am willing to bet that regardless of the outcome of this issue, the USFS will simply close down entire areas as soon as someone spots a bear.

That in itself is a problem because as soon as the public understands this is what will happen many will tend not to mention the fact that a bear raided their cooler last night because they don't want the area shut down.

Round and round we go.

[James_B_Wads2000]

i'm willing to bet there a lawyer whos behind this suit. (i know a rash generalization of lawyers.)

Yeah that

[hank moon]

why blame lawyers for plying their trade? if blaming is your thing, blame the person doing the hiring.

[James_B_Wads2000]

why blame lawyers for plying their trade? if blaming is your thing, blame the person doing the hiring.

Yeah your right Hank, once someone hires you no longer need a conscience.



James

[Scott Card]

[quote=James_B_Wads2000] Yeah that

[James_B_Wads2000]

I was going to sit by, eat my popcorn :popcorn: and smile while the lawyer bashing went on its merry way. But 'cha just had to make it personal didn't ya. :haha:

Yes, my trap worked perfectly.
http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/29/40/22564029.jpg


Every lawyer has his own motives. Some take cases knowing they will not win but do so for the publicity and future cases. Others its all about the money, others it is to truly help and then there is the combination of all or part of the above.

It doesn

[Scott Card]

No worries, I got long legs.... and a rope and harness and I know how to use 'em. :lol8:

[Corey]

Sorry, no lawyer bashing right now.

But to get back on topic.

Will this lawsuit cause the FS to close campgrounds?

Here is one example.

As a young kid I remember playing in the creek at Hanging Rock campground in American Fork Canyon. The same canyon as the bear attack.

Hanging Rock was a great place. The river was wide and slow and ran against the cliffs. The campground was a nice place to camp and picnic. It wasn't far up the canyon.

Then someone was hit by a rock that fell from the cliff. A couple of months later someone was killed by a falling rock. Probably 6-12 months later I read of a lawsuit.

I don't remember what happened in the lawsuit. But Hanging Rock campground was closed and remains closed. They put up fences and rocks so you can't even park there anymore.

So I expect we will see areas closed for use if there is a hint of a bear.

It's pretty sad IMHO.

[Redpb]

This lady is my cousin. I grew up just blocks from them and our families are very close. To this day we still get together. I feel a family member should chime in here.

With that said, what I am about to say doesn't reflect the opinion of the entire family.

What happened was tragic, no doubt. Could it have been prevented? I think so. Something as simple as posting something at that very camp site saying a bear had been through there gnawing on coolers and such earlier that day. They had declared the bear a danger and were out tracking it earlier that day but, had given up.
Is there inherent danger up there? yes, we all accept this
Does the FS need to shut down the canyon every time a bear is sighted? No. I don't think so.
Is this lawsuit warranted? I don't think so. I'm sorry but no amount of money is going to bring Sam back. I miss the guy, I wish it had never happened. I haven't seen his parents for some time now. My cousin is a mess. If the state wants to help out and pay for some counseling, I'm cool with that. But 2 million is stupid.
I love Rebecca and her family. I wish them the best.

[Rev. Coyote]

So, back to my work eating popcorn and watching the juris carnage from those who have decided the case by their trial by media. :popcorn:

So, initial reaction -- does this case have merit? I mean, is it winnable?

[Redpb]

So, initial reaction -- does this case have merit? I mean, is it winnable?

If it goes the distance, I don't think so.
I think it'll be settled out of court myself.

[hank moon]

So, back to my work eating popcorn and watching the juris carnage from those who have decided the case by their trial by media. :popcorn:

So, initial reaction -- does this case have merit? I mean, is it winnable?

No way to know w/o full access to the info (discovery, depositions, etc.).

hank

[denaliguide]

redpb: i do feel sorry for the family. i hope they can get the counseling they deserve. there is no amount of money that can compensate them for their loss. i wish them the best.

[Scott Card]

So, back to my work eating popcorn and watching the juris carnage from those who have decided the case by their trial by media. :popcorn:

So, initial reaction -- does this case have merit? I mean, is it winnable?

No way to know w/o full access to the info (discovery, depositions, etc.).

hank

Bingo. Now, Don't bother me, I'm on Vacation.... :lol8:

[ratagonia]

Update: - there is also a state case, apparently.



State court judge dismisses bear-attack wrongful death lawsuit


First published 3 hours ago
Updated 29 minutes ago
A 4th District Court judge has dismissed a wrongful death lawsuit filed by the parents of a 12-year-old boy who was killed by a bear while camping four years ago in the Timpanogos mountain area.

Sam Ives was killed by a black bear who entered the family’s campsite that was set up a mile from the Timpooneke Campground in June 2007.

His parents filed the civil lawsuit against the State of Utah, the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources and others in 2008, saying they failed to warn people of a dangerous bear in the area, which had attacked other campers.

But Judge David Mortensen ruled on the side of the state, which argued the case should be thrown out because "there is no specific duty owed to the plaintiffs, and further, even if there were a duty, the state is immunized from suit under the ‘natural condition’ exception in the Governmental Immunity Act."

Mortensen sided with the state, saying in his written decision: "This court also concludes that a bear is a natural condition on the land and thus even assuming the state has duty, the state is immunized from suit."

Under state law, Mortensen said, the state is immune when a plaintiff’s injury arises out of, in connection with, or results from any natural condition on publicly owned or controlled lands.

"In the present case, a bear is a natural condition of the land," said Mortensen in his decision, which was filed Friday.

In May, a federal judge awarded the family $1.95 million in damages. In his ruling, U.S. District Judge Dale Kimball said the U.S. Forest Service was required to warn the family that a dangerous animal was on the loose in the canyon after reports of a bear had opened coolers and slashed through a tent in the area earlier that day.

The Ives family could have been entitled to as much as $3 million. But was awarded the lesser amount because Kimball found the Forest Service to be only 65 percent responsible.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52707861-78/state-bear-judge-condition.html.csp

[dmMatrix]

Wait just a minute.... is this the point in time where I can tell a sweet lawyer joke?

Why do they always dig a lawyers grave at 12 feet deep instead of 6?

Because deep down they really are good people. :lol8:

Just kidding, but on a serious note: I agree with several things on both sides of the original argument, I kinda do want to see what the outcome of the lawsuit is. And, poor family for losing their son... If anything, I hope that this helps them with the grieving process.

[ratagonia]

Wait just a minute.... is this the point in time where I can tell a sweet lawyer joke?

Why do they always dig a lawyers grave at 12 feet deep instead of 6?

Because deep down they really are good people. :lol8:

Just kidding, but on a serious note: I agree with several things on both sides of the original argument, I kinda do want to see what the outcome of the lawsuit is. And, poor family for losing their son... If anything, I hope that this helps them with the grieving process.

Uh, both lawsuits completed. Feds, some. State, none.

Tom

[Deathcricket]

Wait confused... so they did get 1.95 mill from the fed gov and nothing from the state. Or the fed wanted to give them 1.95 million then it went to the state and they ended up getting nothing after an appeal? Because if they actually did get $1.95 million then that sucks.

[ratagonia]

Wait confused... so they did get 1.95 mill from the fed gov and nothing from the state. Or the fed wanted to give them 1.95 million then it went to the state and they ended up getting nothing after an appeal? Because if they actually did get $1.95 million then that sucks.

You get a "Reading is Fundamental" for that, Oh Cricket of Death. :facepalm1:

Federal Lawsuit against the United States Forest Service. Found in their favor, FS partly culpable. 1.95 mil awarded to their lawyers.

State Lawsuit:


His parents filed the civil lawsuit against the State of Utah, the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources and others in 2008, saying they failed to warn people of a dangerous bear in the area, which had attacked other campers.

State Law prevents lawsuits against results of a "natural condition". State lawsuit thrown out.

Tom :moses:

[BruteForce]

Next up for litigation: Woman and family sue Corn Maze and State for mental anguish, suffering and being cold! :roll:

http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?60936-Corn-Maze-Rescue

[dmMatrix]

Uh, both lawsuits completed. Feds, some. State, none.

Tom

Really? Meaning feds gave them money? and state wasn't charged? That is crazy.

[tallsteve]

Earlier this summer, I did my USFS chainsaw certification course at the very primitive camping spot where this attack occurred. I have to say, I was a bit creeped out!

[ratagonia]

Really? Meaning feds gave them money? and state wasn't charged? That is crazy.

Why? The laws are different. The facts were the same (or similar, at least). Federal Law and State Law. Federal precedent and State precedent.

"Held Liable" is perhaps a better way of saying it than "wasn't charged".

Tom

[dmMatrix]

Why? The laws are different. The facts were the same (or similar, at least). Federal Law and State Law. Federal precedent and State precedent.

"Held Liable" is perhaps a better way of saying it than "wasn't charged".

Tom

Makes complete sense. I was slightly confused from a few of the things I had read. But that makes sense.

[Don]

Stumbled across this quote and it reminded me of this thread:

"If people persist in trespassing upon the grizzlies' territory, we must accept that the grizzlies, from time to time, will harvest a few trespassers." -Edward Abbey

[Scott P]

Another bear attack lawsuit:

http://news.yahoo.com/widow-sues-over-grizzly-mauling-killed-her-husband-233047201.html

[bbennett]

Stumbled across this quote and it reminded me of this thread:

"If people persist in trespassing upon the grizzlies' territory, we must accept that the grizzlies, from time to time, will harvest a few trespassers." -Edward Abbey


:2thumbs:

[accadacca]

The Utah Supreme Court ruled in favor of the family of 11-year-old Sam Ives, who was killed by bear in 2007. The court ruled that the state had an obligation to protect Ives, who was camping with his family at the Timpooneke campgrounds when a bear dragged him out of his tent and killed him.

Source: http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=26076057

[tallsteve]

Ives, who was camping with his family at the Timpooneke campgrounds when a bear dragged him out of his tent and killed him.

See, that's what has always bothered me about this whole ordeal- it didn't occur in the Timpooneke Campground as everyone keeps reporting. It happened in a primitive camping area a couple of miles up the dirt road PAST the campground. This isn't a 'pay to camp' spot. There isn't a campground Host patrolling the site. There aren't any picnic tables, steel fire-rings or pit toilets. It's basically a small, relatively flat spot in a very steep, rugged part of the canyon. Can you camp there? Sure, and it's a beautiful spot surrounded by massively large, old fir trees. I've been to the exact location. I did my Forest Service volunteer chainsaw certification right there two years ago. The training Ranger told/showed us his first-hand knowledge of what happened and exactly where. The details are grisly and sad. Is there some responsibility on the part of the DWR? Appears to be that way but, it didn't happen in a 'campground'.

[Deathcricket]

The boy's family was previously awarded a $1.95 million judgment from U.S. District Court Judge Dale Kimball, who found that the Forest Service — which owns the land where the boy was killed — held 65 percent of the responsibility for the boy's death and had breached its duty to the public.

Kimball said the state Division of Wildlife Resources carried 25 percent of the responsibility and the boy's family 10 percent, because a granola bar wrapper and soda can were found in his tent.



That's interesting. only 10% responsible for baiting the bear with food? Seems it could be argued the bear would have left them alone if tasty food was not present.

[JP]

That's interesting. only 10% responsible for baiting the bear with food? Seems it could be argued the bear would have left them alone if tasty food was not present.
A "granola bar wrapper and soda can" constitutes baiting?

[Brian in SLC]

A "granola bar wrapper and soda can" constitutes baiting?

How's that go? A pine needle fell in the forest. The eagle saw it. The deer heard it. The bear smelled it.

[Deathcricket]

A "granola bar wrapper and soda can" constitutes baiting?

Well its not like when you and I camp and we smear peanut butter all over ourselves during our lovemaking session, but still.... 10%???

[ratagonia]

See, that's what has always bothered me about this whole ordeal- it didn't occur in the Timpooneke Campground as everyone keeps reporting. It happened in a primitive camping area a couple of miles up the dirt road PAST the campground. This isn't a 'pay to camp' spot. There isn't a campground Host patrolling the site. There aren't any picnic tables, steel fire-rings or pit toilets. It's basically a small, relatively flat spot in a very steep, rugged part of the canyon. Can you camp there? Sure, and it's a beautiful spot surrounded by massively large, old fir trees. I've been to the exact location. I did my Forest Service volunteer chainsaw certification right there two years ago. The training Ranger told/showed us his first-hand knowledge of what happened and exactly where. The details are grisly and sad. Is there some responsibility on the part of the DWR? Appears to be that way but, it didn't happen in a 'campground'.

Did you give the KSL article a read-through? I think it lays the case out pretty well that the State employees were in FACT negligent.



Durrant wrote, though, that the state had a duty to the family once it took specific action at the campsite after the first reported bear attack. The bear was not only a threat to the public generally, but specifically to anyone who might occupy the campsite where the earlier attack had occurred.

Ives' family were "'reasonably identifiable' as the next group to use the campsite," Durrant wrote, because DWR officials waved to them as they drove away from the campsite and the family drove up. The officials had swept the campsite to make sure it was unoccupied but failed to notify the family headed toward the site in any way.
"So although DWR could not specifically identify (the family) when its agents swept the campsite, it nevertheless had reason to believe that (the family) could use the campsite and could therefore be at risk," Durrant wrote.

But yeah, I usually stash candybar wrappers and empty soda cans in the other guys' tent...

Tom

[2065toyota]

Don't forget everybody, it is the governments responsibility to take care of your safety including bears and heat waves. Why does the federal government really care how much money they pay out for anything. It isn't like they can ever run out.

Lets go camping and leave food in our tents and our campsite. It's only the mountains, no bears or lions live up here. And it doesn't really matter anyways because I'm not responsible to think for myself, I have politicians to do that for me