Rappelling Past a Knot Video

[trackrunner]

Found this video from the ATS guys. I think it shows how to pass a knot, an advance technique, pretty well. The way it is demonstrated here does not require leg loops. It looks like the flow of water in the water fall is not to strong. Rapping in a strong flow of water and I would not want to use that technique. Anything else I missed?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=84IoNZnAOGc

[oldno7]

Way to much gear--way to much time---

You can substitute all his pre-tied junk with 1-24" prusik cord.(hows the spelling Tom?)
I would say most should be able to pass a knot on rappel in under 2 minutes .ymmv

[Brian in SLC]

You can substitute all his pre-tied junk with 1-24" prusik cord.(hows the spelling Tom?)
I would say most should be able to pass a knot on rappel in under 2 minutes .ymmv

Actually, it seemed like a pretty good video. I'd probably sub out the Petzl shunt for just a valdotain.

Couldn't hear the audio, but, did he mention to clip the butterfly loop as a back up? That'd be good.

I'd think, to be safe, you'd need more than a single Prusik. Hard to unload a weighted Prusik. You have to transfer your weight to the rope above the rappel device. Then, when done, be able to remove.

Using an autoblock below the rap device allows instant no-hands: sweet. Then, reapplying the rap device, with the autoblock deployed, again no hands while whatever you used to transfer your weight onto the rope gets removed, also nice. Then, after removing the back up on the loop, pop and drop.

-Brian in SLC

[trackrunner]

Couldn't hear the audio, but, did he mention to clip the butterfly loop as a back up? That'd be good.
-Brian in SLC
No he did not. I too think a back up would be a good idea. :nod: I also noticed that he mentions to clip the hitch into the autoblock biner but never mentions a new biner when the autoblock is retited.

[oldno7]

Brian
In my usual uncleer manner--
I use the prusik loop as a valdy(french braiding it to the rope.)
Hook a biner to the loops on the prusik cord(supports weight)
Undo rap device and put back on rope below knot, grab top of french braid and slide down until rap device is loaded,tie off rap device,undo prusik cord and rap.
His method seemed sound, his gear assortment seemed huge for a simple task.
Depending on the reason for the knot I would not tie off to it, I'm presuming in a canyon situation a knot(butterfly) is used to by-pass a core shot.
If anyone is in the Cedar area holler, I would be glad to demonstrate, I can do that better than type.

[oldno7]

I also think it's uncommon for someone to carry a pretied pig-rig into a canyon. a shunt can easily be replaced in this situation with lighter more versatile gear.

[oldno7]

disclaimer

I've never done any canyons but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[Brian in SLC]

I use the prusik loop as a valdy(french braiding it to the rope.).

Ditto. Still need a method to go hand's free unless you let the rap device bang up against the knot.

Best Western for me. And, I didn't switch my car insurance.

-Brian in SLC

[oldno7]

When I'm a foot or so from the knot I lock off my rap device,(now hands free)
After I attache myself to the french braid and weight it(hands free)
As I lower myself back on to the rap device,weighting it, locking off(hands free)

One word of caution: this system is designed to travel a very short distance on the rope, too far and you may melt your prusik cord.

[Brian in SLC]

When I'm a foot or so from the knot I lock off my rap device,(now hands free)

If its super steep and/or overhanging, how do you lock off your device? Are you using a self locker?

Always interesting to see what other folks are doing, but, I suspect my method would be very close to yours.

Really like that french braid (valdy) for unweighting. Much nicer than a mariner or some such.

Cheers,

-Brian in SLC

[rcwild]

The Shunt-Mariner combo works, but requires too much gear and too many steps to be practical, especially when there is strong current and time is more critical. The system Kurt and Brian are talking about is much simpler and only requires a Valdotain (aka French Braid), which can be tied with a Prusik if you're not carrying a "normal" Valdy.

If you know you are going to pass a knot, you can rig the Valdotain before you start your rappel. Just above the knot, release the Valdotain so it holds you. No need to lock off. De-rig your rap device. Re-rig it below the knot. Release the Valdotain to lower yourself until your rap device takes your weight. Now lock off your rap device and remove your Valdotain. Resume rappel.

Kurt has been using a double eight. Easiest device on the market to lock off mid rappel.

Brian, send me your shipping address via email and I'll send you a double eight to play around with.

rcwild at mac dot com

[madsjim]

Brian mentioned the technique for rappelling with a prussik or friction device underneath the descender. When I first started using the technique instead straight off my harness, it felt very safe and easy to use. It of course takes practice to set up correctly but is quite practical once you have done it several times. I am no rope expert but I like the technique very much.

For those who haven't used the technique, this explanation from Petzl is good: http://en.petzl.com/petzl/SportConseils?Conseil=37&Activite=3

[ratagonia]

Way to much gear--way to much time---

You can substitute all his pre-tied junk with 1-24" prusik cord.(hows the spelling Tom?)
I would say most should be able to pass a knot on rappel in under 2 minutes .ymmv

Very nice, thank you.

T (the spellling police)