Stuck on Rappel in Leprechaun

[bruce from bryce]

Anyone on this site take a couple from Colorado in Lep on Sunday and have the guy get stuck on rappel? :ne_nau:

Inquiring minds would like to know since a SAR was required to extract him.

[oldno7]

This is all Rams fault----

ran into 2 couples at the intersection of Slideanide/Constrychnine, my 2 buddies are from Colo. So the guy says that Ram is bringing to many people to these canyons and they don't think much of Ram. (my buddies have never met Ram nor have I)They are from SLC, (the arrogant prick group)I think I know who they are. Also saw my camoflauge pack and asked if I carried a gun in canyons,WTF The guy was an arrogant prick!! I was on my best behavior and left him to canyon another day :twisted:

[bruce from bryce]

Ram sure doesn't need me to defend him but it is idiots like this that are going to impact this sport in the future and is a reason why 'Ram' does NOT publish BETA indiscriminately.

To quote a member of the SAR team: "The people from SLC told these people that this was a short canyon with a couple of rappels and a few downclimbs". Need I say that this was a little bit understated. Even though they carried an excellent map of the route and probably read the description of the canyon (the leaders), they didn't pass that info on to their friends (might be former friends now).

Remember that the 2nd rappel is above where the real run begins.

[Brian in SLC]

To quote a member of the SAR team: "The people from SLC told these people that this was a short canyon with a couple of rappels and a few downclimbs". Need I say that this was a little bit understated. Even though they carried an excellent map of the route and probably read the description of the canyon (the leaders), they didn't pass that info on to their friends (might be former friends now).

Remember that the 2nd rappel is above where the real run begins.

Not having done any of these canyons, but, having read their description on Tom's site, why was this information understated? Couple of raps and a few downclimbs are all that are referenced on Tom's description, too, really.

Chris' beta: http://www.dankat.com/swhikes/leprec.htm

What type of information should have been passed along?

Seems strange to me, but, shouldn't there be some personal responsibility here rather than blaming someone else?

And, really, what does this have to do with getting stuck on rappel? Shouldn't the group and each individual have had the requisite rappelling experience and equipment to prevent this? Wouldn't have anything to do with specific information on the canyon itself.

Any information on what happened specifically to cause them to get stuck?

Interesting...this wasn't the fellers from Colorado who posted here looking for beta, by chance?

I wonder who the SLC folks were...

-Brian in SLc

[Bo_Beck]

Anyone on this site take a couple from Colorado in Lep on Sunday and have the guy get stuck on rappel? :ne_nau:

Inquiring minds would like to know since a SAR was required to extract him.

Ok so let me see if I got this right? You stand either on top or below and shout, "now wedge your leg into the crack, hold it there I'm going to have Seymore come down and stand on your leg and see if we can get it jammed in tighter!". Maybe I misread this post? I tend to think that most people would rather have their friends/clients/or themselves make it to the bottom?

As for the SLC crowd Kurt, I'm not sure I understand what you mean?..."If they were going to give the world an enema, thats where they'd begin?" Maybe that'd sum up your feelings better? GEEZE what a blatant stereortypical blasphemous thing to say! I really think since I have met you before that you meant to say "those ignorant kids were rude wherever they are from?". I wasn't there so I don't know, but to lump an entire populus of a city into a single net seems a bit overboard to me.

Yeah..I know the drill..hit the foxhole...Incoming!

[oldno7]

yea, you'd think now that the writers strike was over I would hire one. :lol8:

No not blackballing the whole SLC crowd at all(I grew up in Bountiful)
Just this particular group, sorry for any confusion. I am however very sensitive about my camo pack. :mrgreen:

It would be interesting to know if these 2 groups are one in the same though.

[Bo_Beck]

yea, you'd think now that the writers strike was over I would hire one. :lol8:

No not blackballing the whole SLC crowd at all(I grew up in Bountiful)
Just this particular group, sorry for any confusion. I am however very sensitive about my camo pack. :mrgreen:

It would be interesting to know if these 2 groups are one in the same though.

I go through the same soap opera every time there is an accident in Zion. I'm pretty used to it by now. Human nature to blame someone. We need an out and a way to justify to ourselves what happened whether it is right or wrong.

I dig Camo, but when I got out of the military in the late 70's I swore I'd not wear it again. Maybe I will?

Don't need the writers guild; practicing to write a novel about the "Canyon Wars". The bolt wars seem to have lost ground! :haha: Next comes the "Canyon Forums Wars", after that will be the end of the world. No wait..I seem to think there will be a sole survivor? the "Lets Derail The The Topic Forum" starring none other than those dang "Fun Lovin', jokin', flirtin' survivors" of hmmmmmmmm? not sure where?

[bruce from bryce]

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

bruce from bryce wrote:
To quote a member of the SAR team: "The people from SLC told these people that this was a short canyon with a couple of rappels and a few downclimbs". Need I say that this was a little bit understated. Even though they carried an excellent map of the route and probably read the description of the canyon (the leaders), they didn't pass that info on to their friends (might be former friends now).

Remember that the 2nd rappel is above where the real run begins.


Not having done any of these canyons, but, having read their description on Tom's site, why was this information understated? Couple of raps and a few downclimbs are all that are referenced on Tom's description, too, really.
DID YOU READ THE WARNING BELOW THE BOX? SEEMS CLEAR TO ME, BUT THEN I UNDERSTAND THE RATING SYSTEM

Chris' beta: http://www.dankat.com/swhikes/leprec.htm

What type of information should have been passed along?
WONDER IF THESE PEOPLE HAD BEEN THROUGH THE CANYON. MAYBE THEY WENT THROUGH SHAMROCK WHICH IS CONSIDERABLY EASIER

Seems strange to me, but, shouldn't there be some personal responsibility here rather than blaming someone else?
IF YOU MEAN THE STUCK ONE YES. IF YOU MEAN THE PEOPLE WHO INVITED HIM, MOST DEFINITELY

And, really, what does this have to do with getting stuck on rappel? Shouldn't the group and each individual have had the requisite rappelling experience and equipment to prevent this? Wouldn't have anything to do with specific information on the canyon itself.
TOTALLY AGREE

Any information on what happened specifically to cause them to get stuck?
5' 10", 210LBS. THE SIDE OF THE RAP SQUEEZES IN LIKE A FUNNEL AND MY GUESS THAT HE WENT INTO THE FUNNEL INSTEAD OF GOING TO ONE SIDE OR ANOTHER

Interesting...this wasn't the fellers from Colorado who posted here looking for beta, by chance?
????

I wonder who the SLC folks were...
ME TOO

-Brian in SLc

[Brian in SLC]

ran into 2 couples at the intersection of Slideanide/Constrychnine, my 2 buddies are from Colo. So the guy says that Ram is bringing to many people to these canyons and they don't think much of Ram. (my buddies have never met Ram nor have I)They are from SLC, (the arrogant prick group)I think I know who they are. Also saw my camoflauge pack and asked if I carried a gun in canyons,WTF The guy was an arrogant prick!! I was on my best behavior and left him to canyon another day

Ooohh. The plot thickens. Based on the post on the canyons yahoo group, my bet is that the arrogant prick hosted RAM at his house for a x-mas canyoneering party. What a prick indeed!

NIMBY NIMBY NIMBY. You need to hear the "conservation of powder" ski speech, with regard to backcountry skiing.

Too funny. I think "someone's" nickname just became, "AP".

Hee hee hee...ROTFLMAO...

-Brian in SLC
ps: hey, arrogant prick, give me a jingle!

[bruce from bryce]

If anyone in SLC was offended by most original post -- my aplologies! Just searching for information.

For an on-the-ground description of what really went on you'll have to venture over to the DARK SIDE

[CarpeyBiggs]

Apparently, I'm not understanding what happened. How did this guy get stuck on rappel? He couldn't have been too tired it seems, since he walked out on his own power. What happened?

BTW, Beady, I met a friend of yours. John George, a very talented photographer, made for great company. Spoke highly of you.

[Brian in SLC]

BTW, Beady, I met a friend of yours. John George, a very talented photographer, made for great company.

Hey, tell him hi and that I need his autograph!

He's got a photobook on the great salt lake and some shots in a bunch of other stuff.

Miss seein' him around. Tell him, if you see him again, to give me a jingle!

Thanks,

-Brian in SLC

[rockgremlin]

Apparently, I'm not understanding what happened. How did this guy get stuck on rappel? He couldn't have been too tired it seems, since he walked out on his own power. What happened?



I echo this inquiry. :ne_nau: So confused...

[Iceaxe]

Brighton climber rescued from Utah cliff
By Kirk Mitchell
The Denver Post

Rescuers rappelled to a 42-year-old Brighton man after he got stuck on a cliff about 28 miles southeast of Hanksville, Utah, authorities say.

Rob Lougee had gotten stuck when he rappelled down to narrow rock formations that he could not pass through on Sunday and did not have the equipment needed to climb back up, said Becki Bronson, spokeswoman for the Garfield County Sheriff's Office.

Lougee, his wife and two other hikers from Salt Lake City had rappelled a half-mile down in the Three Forks Area to some narrow passages in rock. Where Lougee was rappelling, a hole in the rock was smaller than 16 inches wide, and he could not pass through, Bronson said. He found a small shelf about the size of a kitchen table and waited there for help overnight.

The others rappelled down and went for help. Garfield County Search and Rescue crews arrived by helicopter on Monday at 7:45 a.m. The crews used the helicopter as an anchor and rappelled down to Lougee's position.

Lougee was unhurt and slightly dehydrated, Lougee said.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_8693479


http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2008/0325/20080325__Rescue2~p1.jpg
Rob Lougee, 42, in the white helmet, was pulled to safety by Garfield County Search and Rescue crews near Hanksville, Utah, on March 24, 2008. (Garfield County Sheriff's Office)


http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2008/0325/20080325__Rescue~p1.jpg
Garfield County Search and Rescue crews were flown to the site where the Brighton man was stranded by the Utah Highway Patrol. (Garfield County Sheriff's Office)

.

[Iceaxe]

Colorado Man Rescued From Slot Canyon
Formation Just Became To Small
Deb Stanley, 7NEWS Producer, Avid Hiker and Colorado Junkie

Utah's Garfield County Search and Rescue team had to use their rappelling gear and a helicopter to rescue a hiker from Colorado stuck in a slot canyon.

Slot canyons are know for their skinny or narrow passageways.

A news release from the Garfield County Sheriff's Office said 42-year-old Rob Lougee of Brighton, his wife and two other hikers from Salt Lake City were rappelling in the Three Forks area Sunday. Three members of the group made it through the other parts of the narrows, but Lougee got stuck. The skinniest part of the narrows was smaller than 16 inches wide.

Lougee did not have the gear or the ability to back up and he couldn't go down, so he waited for help on a ledge about the size of a kitchen table.

Lougee's wife made it out of the canyon and called the sheriff's office while his two male friends hiked back to the top of the canyon to spend the night near Lougee.

Help arrived Monday morning. The Garfield County Search and Rescue team was brought in by a Utah Highway Patrol helicopter. That was fortunate because when they arrived, rescuers had nowhere to anchor their ropes. They ended up using the helicopter as an anchor. Then the team rappelled down to Lougee and helped him climb back out.

Search and Rescue member Mike Alhstrom said, "It's important to take extreme caution in the backcountry of Garfield County, and not rely solely on guide books for information regarding your planned hike. It's good idea to ask questions of the locals and the sheriff's office who know the country here better than anyone and can help make sure that you will be safe."

Lougee was unhurt, slightly dehydrated, but OK, according to medical personnel.

It was well below freezing Sunday night at Three Forks, but Lougee was prepared with the proper outdoor equipment to handle the cold.

The Three Forks area is about 28 miles southeast of Hanskville (just off SR 95). Their guide book had warned of some "skinny narrows," but didn't provide more details than that and so the group did not realize how skinny the narrows actually become before they had rappelled a half a mile down to them.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/15704756/detail.html

[tanya]

Sounds like he got stuck in the skinny section after the rappel rather than on the rappel?

[Iceaxe]

Man rescued after spending night on narrow ledge
Deseret Morning news

GARFIELD COUNTY

[Iceaxe]

I'm still not getting it.... a couple of pretty big boys have done that slot.

:ne_nau:

[Iceaxe]

Dang.... I went back to the Denverpost to see if they had anymore pictures I could hot link.... anyhoo.... I didn't find any more pictures but I started reading some of the reader comments below the article....

Some of the comments are PRICELESS.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_8693479


I'm not a climber, myself, but it seems odd to me to rappel down first, without any means to ascend your rope. Any climbers out there care to comment on this?

Curtis in Broomfield


Not a climber. At best a canyoneer in the act of rapelling. The press needs to learn that every idiot with a rope is not a climber. Inevitably articles like this that reflects poorly on climbers. He's called a climber in the headline, yet nothing he was doing would be construed as climbing. Hey Kirk Mitchell, why don't you google 'rock climbing' and see if you can get a clue there before you put 'climbing' in the headline. He was rapelling. You climb UP.

M B


Climber?
Actually, he would be a decender, right?
A decender and then a stopper. Then a yeller for a helper, then a waiter for a rescuer.
But a climber.. no.
Now i bet hes gonna be a reader...

bd

:roflol: :roflol: :roflol:

I'm pretty sure the last comment above came from a member of this forum..... :lol8:

There are more comments at the DP. See the link above.

:cool2:

[tanya]

"he could not rappel down any farther and did not have the equipment to climb back out of the canyon. The man found a ledge and spent the night there while his wife went for help"




Is it possible he did not have enough rope to do the whole rappel? It was really odd shaped.. not really a shelf there to spend the night on?

There was only one in that whole canyon wasn't there? I am assuming the wife was above and had not rappelled yet?

[Iceaxe]

Wrong rappel Tanya, this happened in the Middle Fork. My groups have never rappeled the second drop in Middle Fork, we always just partner assist down. The entire Middle Fork has been up climbed by only moderately skilled canyoneers. I'm still not seeing why they had a major problem.

If someone has a picture of this second rappel/drop please post it. It's been a while since I've done that fork and my mind is a little cloudy.

:cool2:

[rockgremlin]

This is all Rams fault----

ran into 2 couples at the intersection of Slideanide/Constrychnine, my 2 buddies are from Colo. So the guy says that Ram is bringing to many people to these canyons and they don't think much of Ram. (my buddies have never met Ram nor have I)They are from SLC, (the arrogant prick group)I think I know who they are. Also saw my camoflauge pack and asked if I carried a gun in canyons,WTF The guy was an arrogant prick!! I was on my best behavior and left him to canyon another day :twisted:

Just out of curiosity, how is "this all RAM's fault?" :ne_nau:

[tanya]

This is all Rams fault----

ran into 2 couples at the intersection of Slideanide/Constrychnine, my 2 buddies are from Colo. So the guy says that Ram is bringing to many people to these canyons and they don't think much of Ram. (my buddies have never met Ram nor have I)They are from SLC, (the arrogant prick group)I think I know who they are. Also saw my camoflauge pack and asked if I carried a gun in canyons,WTF The guy was an arrogant prick!! I was on my best behavior and left him to canyon another day :twisted:

Just out of curiosity, how is "this all RAM's fault?" :ne_nau:


I took that as an affectionate joke

[Iceaxe]

Just out of curiosity, how is "this all RAM's fault?" :ne_nau:

Well heck.... it has to be someone's fault.... maybe it's just Ram's turn in the barrel. :roflol:

No such thing as accepting personal responsibility.

:ne_nau:

[oldno7]

This is all Rams fault----

ran into 2 couples at the intersection of Slideanide/Constrychnine, my 2 buddies are from Colo. So the guy says that Ram is bringing to many people to these canyons and they don't think much of Ram. (my buddies have never met Ram nor have I)They are from SLC, (the arrogant prick group)I think I know who they are. Also saw my camoflauge pack and asked if I carried a gun in canyons,WTF The guy was an arrogant prick!! I was on my best behavior and left him to canyon another day :twisted:

Just out of curiosity, how is "this all RAM's fault?" :ne_nau:

The couple that I met at the bottom of Constrychnine/Slideanide were the ones saying Ram was showing all the people from Colo. these canyons. "They expressed their displeasure with Ram, not me.
So yea, Tanya has it figured. :rockon:
And I stand behind everything I said about the SLC couple and I do know who they are(arrogant prick) That was my first dealing with him.
There were 5 of us (3 in our group, 2 camped across from us) that were at the bottom, I believe all felt somewhat or totally offended by said prick!
But I'm done with this, too many good folks to worry about a few bad, at least I'll know how to act if I ever run into this guy again.

[Alex]

Is this said person on bogley forums? :ne_nau:

[rockgremlin]

Is this said person on bogley forums? :ne_nau:


Probably Kelsey...he's pissed because RAM refuses to publish all of his great slot canyon finds. :haha:

[AJ]

I don't get it either. It's not because of rope, as the wife made it down and out to call for help.


Wrong rappel Tanya, this happened in the Middle Fork. My groups have never rappeled the second drop in Middle Fork, we always just partner assist down. The entire Middle Fork has been up climbed by only moderately skilled canyoneers. I'm still not seeing why they had a major problem.

If someone has a picture of this second rappel/drop please post it. It's been a while since I've done that fork and my mind is a little cloudy.

:cool2:

The report says goes down to 16 inches. Is that middle fork Shane? I thought middle went down tighter than that. I was thinking it was one of the other forks, which was even more confusing. I'm guessing it was just a rather big fellow; who didn't know how to stem and therefore didn't belong in there. If it's middle, I can see that a little more; but yeah, I agree that many big folk should be able to make it through there fine...

[Iceaxe]

Yeah, it was middle fork.

If the news info is correct the guy who got stuck is in the white helmet in the picture. From the picture I'd say he should have had few problems. I've seen much bigger guys make it through with a little sweating and grunting.

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2008/0325/20080325__Rescue2~p1.jpg

[trackrunner]

There are some good comments over on the Yahoo group Canyons page about this.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/

[Scott Card]

There are some good comments over on the Yahoo group Canyons page about this.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/

What he said. :2thumbs:

[Alex]

Not all of us belong to that group, enough drama is going on here... so can you kindly paste it in here? :ne_nau: :nod:

[ratagonia]

Yeah, it was middle fork.

If the news info is correct the guy who got stuck is in the white helmet in the picture. From the picture I'd say he should have had few problems. I've seen much bigger guys make it through with a little sweating and grunting.


For big fellas, can be hard. See

http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/rave/0503lep/index.htm

Now, this fella is not that big, BUT, also stated he is not much of a climber, AND was kinda 'duped' into the trip.

Add: the new media writes the story from the facts they are told, run through their filter of what they know. Since they know ZERO about canyoneerings, they cannot imagine that the canyon is too narrow to hike through, therefore, since at some point he was rappelling, and he got stuck, then he must have gotten stuck on rappel.

There are 3-4 sections that get down to 10-11". Rob was a pretty good climber a couple years ago, was well-equipped (ie, had good, armor-type clothing and little else) and was very game - and he had a hard time. Was about to kill me the 10th time I said 'this should be the last narrow bit'.

I've done Main Leprechaun 25-30 times. I have NEVER downclimbed either rappel. There are two rappels in the canyon. You can downclimb / partner assist either of them - but would find it a really, really stupid place to break an ankle, lower leg or especially femur. I know Ice used to flash 5.12, so for him it is no problem, but the best I ever flashed was 5.11b, so weaklings like me will continue to use a rope.

ps.
Blame it on Ram,
Oh-oh, oh, please don't blame it on me
It's nobody's fault
But it just seems to be his turn

Tom

Once upon a time, I had a little money
Government burglars took it along
Before I could mail it to you
Still you are the only one
Now I can't let it slip away
So if the man with the ticker tape, he tries to take it
Well, this is what I'm gonna say

(CHORUS) Blame it on Cain
Don't blame it on me
Oh-oh, oh, it's nobody's fault
But we need somebody to burn

Well, if I was a saint with a silver cup
And the money got low, we could always heat it up
Or trade it in
But then the radio to heaven will be wired to your purse
And you can run down the waveband
Coast-to-coast, hand in hand
Bad to worse, curse for curse
Don't be dissatisfied, so if you're not satisfied

(REPEAT CHORUS)

I think I've lived a little too long on the outskirts of town
I think I'm going insane from talking to myself for so long
Oh, but I've never been accused
When they step on your face, then wear that good-look grin
I gotta break out one weekend before I do somebody in
But every single time I feel a little stronger
They tell me it's a crime, well, how much longer?

(REPEAT CHORUS)

Blame it on Cain,
Oh-oh, oh, please don't blame it on me
It's nobody's fault
But it just seems to be his turn

(Blame it on Cain, Elvis Costello)

Tom