HydroSkin Pant for Canyoneering?

[tanya]

Would these be good for when it's fairly warm, but the water is cold? And if it is good then is it light and compacts easy to carry? And a neoprene short sleeved top could be worn with it if needed.

I know most take a shortie wetsuit, but if the water if mostly not too deep then the wetsuit is not keeping much warm.. right? --- I guess the important parts are kept warm though.

http://gear.alpinezone.com/atn/shop/P-4237/NRS_HydroSkin_Pants.html

[trackrunner]

But are your legs/body staying dry. Good cloths can keep you warm when it is cold and windy. Wet cloths can not keep you warm. I can't tell if the pants will also keep you dry.

Last November I went and did a canyon with a small water section (not too deep) we were not expecting. My friend's sister wore shorts and after exiting the water section dried off and put on some tights to stay warm. That worked well.

[tanya]

But are your legs/body staying dry. Good cloths can keep you warm when it is cold and windy. Wet cloths can not keep you warm. I can't tell if the pants will also keep you dry.

Last November I went and did a canyon with a small water section (not too deep) we were not expecting. My friend's sister wore shorts and after exiting the water section dried off and put on some tights to stay warm. That worked well.

That is what I was wondering too? Some descriptions act like you stay dry and others do not as I searched for various places that sold them. I am looking for something to use for cold water --- I have endured many canyons with short cold sections and that's no problem, but then I have always been a fair weather canyoneer. I have a thick wetsuit but its heavy to carry and an overkill for some places.

There are neoprene pants that would work for sure, but these sounded more comforable and maybe lighter to carry? I am just not sure what they are exactly I guess.

[ratagonia]

That is what I was wondering too? Some descriptions act like you stay dry and others do not as I searched for various places that sold them. I am looking for something to use for cold water --- I have endured many canyons with short cold sections and that's no problem, but then I have always been a fair weather canyoneer. I have a thick wetsuit but its heavy to carry and an overkill for some places.

There are neoprene pants that would work for sure, but these sounded more comforable and maybe lighter to carry? I am just not sure what they are exactly I guess.

They are essentially a very thin neoprene, and might be just what you are looking for. They don't keep you dry, but would be warm-for-the-weight, and would decrease some of the "shock factor".

Tom

[skianddive]

As you alluded to in your original post, Tanya, our bodies lose heat in water primarily through some specific locations: (1) head/neck, (2) armpits, (3) crotch, and (4) chest. That's why shorties can keep us warm because they protect the latter 3 areas. But as you probably know, wetsuits do not keep us dry, and, in fact, they require a layer of water between your body and the neoprene to keep you warm.

The NRS HydroSkin is constructed of thin 0.5mm neoprene as its base layer, so it is designed to get wet like a wetsuit. In addition to keeping your legs warm (as long as you keep moving and keep the water heated), it should also be very comfortable to hike in and not constrict you like a thicker wetsuit.

http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.asp?pfid=2231&deptid=942


You might also consider the HydroSkin Capris which are "ideal for shorter women":

http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.asp?pfid=2614&deptid=942

[tanya]

That is what I was wondering too? Some descriptions act like you stay dry and others do not as I searched for various places that sold them. I am looking for something to use for cold water --- I have endured many canyons with short cold sections and that's no problem, but then I have always been a fair weather canyoneer. I have a thick wetsuit but its heavy to carry and an overkill for some places.

There are neoprene pants that would work for sure, but these sounded more comforable and maybe lighter to carry? I am just not sure what they are exactly I guess.

They are essentially a very thin neoprene, and might be just what you are looking for. They don't keep you dry, but would be warm-for-the-weight, and would decrease some of the "shock factor".

Tom

That is exactly what I was hoping for! Thanks Tom!

[tanya]

As you alluded to in your original post, Tanya, our bodies lose heat in water primarily through some specific locations: (1) head/neck, (2) armpits, (3) crotch, and (4) chest. That's why shorties can keep us warm because they protect the latter 3 areas. But as you probably know, wetsuits do not keep us dry, and, in fact, they require a layer of water between your body and the neoprene to keep you warm.

The NRS HydroSkin is constructed of thin 0.5mm neoprene as its base layer, so it is designed to get wet like a wetsuit. In addition to keeping your legs warm (as long as you keep moving and keep the water heated), it should also be very comfortable to hike in and not constrict you like a thicker wetsuit.

http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.asp?pfid=2231&deptid=942


You might also consider the HydroSkin Capris which are "ideal for shorter women":

http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.asp?pfid=2614&deptid=942

Great info! Thanks! I had looked at the capris, but was not sure if they would be better or not? Do you mean women are shorter than men or that I am short? I am 5'5 --- so I assume you just mean they would be better for females.

[Iceaxe]

Real men don't wear capri's... end of story. :haha:

[skianddive]

Great info! Thanks! I had looked at the capris, but was not sure if they would be better or not? Do you mean women are shorter than men or that I am short? I am 5'5 --- so I assume you just mean they would be better for females.
I was suggesting the capris because the sizing is specific to females, whereas the other HydroSkin Pants are sized for men.

Using your height as a guide for the latter pair, you would need a size 'small' and your measurements should be as follows:

Weight: 115-140 lbs
Chest: 32" - 36"
Waist: 28" - 31"

I suspect one of them may be off a tad. :haha:

[tanya]

Great info! Thanks! I had looked at the capris, but was not sure if they would be better or not? Do you mean women are shorter than men or that I am short? I am 5'5 --- so I assume you just mean they would be better for females.
I was suggesting the capris because the sizing is specific to females, whereas the other HydroSkin Pants are sized for men.

Using your height as a guide for the latter pair, you would need a size 'small' and your measurements should be as follows:

Weight: 115-140 lbs
Chest: 32" - 36"
Waist: 28" - 31"

I suspect one of them may be off a tad. :haha:

:lol8:

[tanya]

Real men don't wear capri's... end of story. :haha:


Do I ever agree!

or pink!

or earring!

or necklaces!

or... I could go on all day. :mrgreen:

[Scott Card]

Because these particular pants you are asking about cost more than ten bucks, they are automatically excluded from canyoneering. :nod: Canyoneering shreds stuff. Particularly that North Wash. Man, my 9 buck Shopko pants lasted only two canyons in the North Wash and that was with a major hole patch/ seam repair between canyons. I can't even imagine spending any kind of money for canyoneering clothing. I think Tom's next invention ought to be pants made out of the stuff he uses for his Leprechaun pack. I can report that after Larry, Monkey Business and half of Stair, the pack still looks virtually new. Great material.
:2thumbs:

[tanya]

Because these particular pants you are asking about cost more than ten bucks, they are automatically excluded from canyoneering. :nod: Canyoneering shreds stuff. Particularly that North Wash. Man, my 9 buck Shopko pants lasted only two canyons in the North Wash and that was with a major hole patch/ seam repair between canyons. I can't even imagine spending any kind of money for canyoneering clothing. I think Tom's next invention ought to be pants made out of the stuff he uses for his Leprechaun pack. I can report that after Larry, Monkey Business and half of Stair, the pack still looks virtually new. Great material.
:2thumbs:

I know what you mean! Zion is not too bad on clothes though but I hear those skinny slots are brutal! I think Tom mentioned somewhere to wear jeans for North Wash?

[skianddive]

I think Tom's next invention ought to be pants made out of the stuff he uses for his Leprechaun pack.
Just something to think about....would you rather see Tanya in 1000 Denier Cordura or that tight fitting HydroSkin? :twisted:

[tanya]

I think Tom's next invention ought to be pants made out of the stuff he uses for his Leprechaun pack.
Just something to think about....would you rather see Tanya in 1000 Denier Cordura or that tight fitting HydraSkin? :twisted:



You know how to get on my good side. :spruceup:

[wiese]

Tanya,

Due to the drama normally running rampant on a lot of the forums, I don't stay up with them, so I don't know if it is to late.

I own the HydroSkin and used them when I got into canyoning.

A little background (may be pointless) Wore in Class C on Maui and I'm a tall skinny bastard, that pumps out heat but has no insulation on me.

I actually found myself to be warmer just wearing shorts, compared to wearing the HydroSkins with shorts over them protect the ass of the pants. The .5 once wet just keeps the cold water next to your skin, with that and the evaporation I found myself shivering a lot more with them on. After a few trips, half way through a canyon I removed the pants and just wore shorts the rest of the canyon. Was warmer for the lower part and have since never worn them.

If you are wearing them around a lot of water I would recommend against them.

Good Luck.
EW

[tanya]

Thanks E.W.! I had not got around to ordering any since I was out of town!

What drama... :eek2: we don't have that here! :nod: I keep all the boys in line. :twisted: :haha:

[skianddive]

The .5 once wet just keeps the cold water next to your skin, with that and the evaporation I found myself shivering a lot more with them on.
Wetsuits and HydroSkins, like the one that Tanya is considering, keep the body warm by insulating a thin water layer between the body's skin and the neoprene. In order to keep you warm, the apparel must be tight enough to keep the warm water in. If it's too loose, the warm water will drain out, and you will have to heat up another layer of water upon your next immersion. You must also keep moving/exercising in order to initially warm this water layer and then to keep it warm (or lying out in the sun will also do this).

If you wear your wetsuit/skin while stopped and/or where there is a breeze, then you will also get cold. Why? Because evaporation is an exothermic reaction wherein it will draw heat from your body as the water is whisked away from the wetsuit/skin. On dive boats, while moving from one location to another, divemasters frequently suggest that divers pull down the top of their wetsuit and put a towel or windbreaker around them to keep warm. I also make the same recommendation in our wet canyons here in SoCal.

EW, if you wore your skin in Hawaii and still got cold, I

[tanya]

They are back on my shopping list. :popcorn: :2thumbs:

[wiese]

Been sitting here just smiling and wondering if it is even worth posting... well I am on lunch break, so what the hell.

FIRST AND FOREMOST it is whatever works for you, there is not right or wrong.

Skianddive, I feel we all know how wet suits work and I assume you do as well. Its been said before and you know this better than most if your running around in SoCal, a lot of people don't believe wet suits are really that great for canyoneering. (Yea, if your playing in class C it's a different story, so lets leave class C out of it for now.)

But lets think about what you said about suits and canyoneering at the same time and see if it is the "right environment". Lets face it canyoneering is not really a high activity sport, the majority of the activities are walking and descending. And now with that said, if you are in a group, we all walk down canyon till you come to an obstacle where we all stand around waiting till its our turn. I am just saying we are not really pumping out energy, its a pretty leisurely sport where we are working with gravity and not against it.

If there is water around we normally hope in then hop out on the other side and continue down the canyon. Where are you spending more of your time in or out of water? I am assuming out, so why would we want to wear things that sole purpose is to trap water NEXT to the skin? Out of water a wet suit works just the opposite as it does in water and that is against you, because heat is transfered faster through water than air. Resulting in you losing more warmth than you would if you where not wearing them.

So, HydroSkins, Tanya they may work for ya, but for me the .5 insulation was not really much of insulation. And keeping cold water next to my skin while in a warm environment was beyond a dumb idea on my half.

Good luck shopping
EW

[hank moon]

My experience w/Hydroskin: very poor warmth : weight ratio. Lots of nylon facing to soak up water and very little neoprene.

This makes a product that becomes heavy* when wet, dries slowly, and insulates poorly.

To be avoided.

hank

*+high evaporative heat loss

[tanya]

Great posts guys!

I ordered a drysuit and Bo gave me an old wetsuit that is 3mm.... or I would have gone and got a wetsuit from Tom.

What I was thinking the hydroskin pants for, other than to show off my rear end, :lol8: --- is for those types of canyons where they are not too cold but you have to wade about waist deep in water -- no swimming and not too brutal.

Would they be good for those?

[Iceaxe]

I ordered a drysuit

Dry suits were real popular at one time but have fallen out of favor over the years. I still use my drysuit in Zion some, but outside of Zion the slots are just to narrow and rough for dry suits to hold up real well.

:cool2:

[tanya]

I ordered a drysuit

Dry suits were real popular at one time but have fallen out of favor over the years. I still use my drysuit in Zion some, but outside of Zion the slots are just to narrow and rough for dry suits to hold up real well.

:cool2:

I wanted one for boating too and of course I do Zion mostly... I read where some people wear coveralls over the drysuit but then you seem to end up carrying more stuff. Maybe its still more compact and lighter than a wetsuit though and warmer. .... but the one drawback of course is that we would not get to get nakad to put on the wetsuit. :lol8:

[Iceaxe]

I wanted one for boating too and of course I do Zion mostly... I read where some people wear coveralls over the drysuit but then you seem to end up carrying more stuff. Maybe its still more compact and lighter than a wetsuit though and warmer.

Just wanted you to have the latest 411.

:2thumbs:

I don't wear coveralls, I just use a little extra care while canyoneering and mine have held up nice. I also use mine for paddling so it's all good...


but the one drawback of course is that we would not get to get nakad to put on the wetsuit. :lol8:

Yeah.... I already tried that one on ya and Bo ruined it for me.

:frustrated:

[skianddive]

What I was thinking the hydroskin pants for, other than to show off my rear end, :lol8: --- is for those types of canyons where they are not too cold but you have to wade about waist deep in water -- no swimming and not too brutal.

Would they be good for those?
Yes, and here's a good deal on a new pair if you can snag them:

eBay ad (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190228196213)

[ratagonia]

http://tinyurl.com/5jdh2s

At Amazon, Bell Fitness Shorts. They WANT you to wear them super-bullet tight, as if they will squeeze the fat out of ya. Maybe they do, but I wear the L/XL size and they fit fine (33 waist) and comfortable. I think these are what you are looking for - something to take the SHOCK value out of that cold water!

$ 12.37 - Cheap!!!

Tom

[skianddive]

At Amazon, Bell Fitness Shorts. They WANT you to wear them super-bullet tight, as if they will squeeze the fat out of ya. Maybe they do, but I wear the L/XL size and they fit fine (33 waist) and comfortable. I think these are what you are looking for - something to take the SHOCK value out of that cold water!
Those shorts don't do much to protect the thighs and lower legs like the capris.

And in case you hadn't noticed, Tom, Tanya does not have a set of "boys" like we do that need to be protected from the SHOCK value of cold water. :haha: