Grooves or Garbage VOTE OR DIE!!!

[Jaxx]

In the rapelling thread the topic came up of the rope grooves on a rap in Spry canyon (see pictures below). Would it be worth it to tie a piece of carpet to protect the rock or would that "ruin your experience". Vote it up.
Please keep this debate respectful we are all friends here.

http://www.zionnational-park.com/images/albums/images/zion-spry-zb_jpg.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h34/jaxpb03/Spry/77ChadEmStephbottomof5thrap-1.jpg

[CarpeyBiggs]

Why not extend some slings over the edge of the cliff, so the rap ring or rapide is over the edge? Set up a courtesy rap for everyone but the last person down, let them deal with an awkward start, if it is in fact awkward. No garbage, no grooves.

I haven't done Spry, so I'm not sure what the anchor is at this point.

[Iceaxe]

Yeah.... I think the correct answer should be re-rig the rappel.

A properly rigged anchor should not leave grooves. The grooves are the result of some gumby rigging the rappel and everyone else being to lazy to rig it correctly.

Leaving a piece of carpet is NOT the answer.

:cool2:

[Jaxx]

Ah, I get it now. I'm not sure why this didn't occur to me. I think it would be reasonably easy to rig that rap in spry with a little more webbing. I guess we learn something everyday.

WAIT!!! Did I just see Carpey and Ice agree on something. Is it the end of the world?

[rockgremlin]

Why not extend some slings over the edge of the cliff, so the rap ring or rapide is over the edge? Set up a courtesy rap for everyone but the last person down, let them deal with an awkward start, if it is in fact awkward. No garbage, no grooves.

I haven't done Spry, so I'm not sure what the anchor is at this point.

Ding Ding!!

Concur.

[Iceaxe]

The one down side to re-rigging the anchor is that it can make the start a little more difficult, particularly for beginners. You could leave the anchor as is for the beginners (Posers in Rich speak) and then re-rig correctly for the last person down (the guy with credentials in Rich Speak).


WAIT!!! Did I just see Carpey and Ice agree on something. Is it the end of the world?

http://keithcombs.members.winisp.net/flyingpig.gif

[stefan]

:lol8:

[Jaxx]

The one down side to re-rigging the anchor is that it can make the start a little more difficult, particularly for beginners. You could leave the anchor as is for the beginners (Posers in Rich speak) and then re-rig correctly for the last person down (the guy with credentials in Rich Speak).

Ya I was thinking about how the rappel is kindof scary to walk over to in spry. What is the best way to start? I have heard of people doing a belly crawl, but then you scratch all your stuff. I guess as long as you somehow weight test before you are on your belly that might be ok. Is it possible to start kindof off to the side of the anchor and make your way down until you are under it or would that be too akward of a start, seems that would pull you toward the anchor too much to be able to do it that way.

What is the best technique for starting with the rapid below the lip?

[trackrunner]

The one down side to re-rigging the anchor is that it can make the start a little more difficult, particularly for beginners. You could leave the anchor as is for the beginners (Posers in Rich speak) and then re-rig correctly for the last person down (the guy with credentials in Rich Speak).

Ya I was thinking about how the rappel is kindof scary to walk over to in spry. What is the best way to start? I have heard of people doing a belly crawl, but then you scratch all your stuff. I guess as long as you somehow weight test before you are on your belly that might be ok. Is it possible to start kindof off to the side of the anchor and make your way down until you are under it or would that be too akward of a start, seems that would pull you toward the anchor too much to be able to do it that way.

What is the best technique for starting with the rapid below the lip?

Have the last one down do the awkward start. Everyone else can do an easy rappel. The last person can slowly lower him/her down until the anchor & rope is fully weighted. You can always get a belay from below in case you fall. I would advise against starting way to the side of the anchor, because you'll swing when you get out and might hit a wall really hard. If the anchors were sketchy this would be more stress on them as well.

[rockgremlin]

Ya I was thinking about how the rappel is kindof scary to walk over to in spry. What is the best way to start? I have heard of people doing a belly crawl, but then you scratch all your stuff. I guess as long as you somehow weight test before you are on your belly that might be ok. Is it possible to start kindof off to the side of the anchor and make your way down until you are under it or would that be too akward of a start, seems that would pull you toward the anchor too much to be able to do it that way.

What is the best technique for starting with the rapid below the lip?

Belly flop starts are awkward. For situations like this, its best to grab the webbing anchor, get on your knees with your back to the drop, and lean back slowly until the anchor takes your weight. Then extend your legs out in front of you, let go of the webbing, and its rappelling as usual. At least that's always worked for me in the past. Definitely takes some practice to get that technique finessed out.

[Jaxx]

sweet thanks for the tips!

[Deathcricket]

3 easy steps to fix that edge and make everyone happy

1. Fill in the existing grooves with a tan colored mortar mix.

2. Put a piece of PVC coping over the entire edge. You could glue it down with JB-weld.

3. Go to the left side and jackhammer about 10 steps in the sandstone. Maybe a "spiral staircase" effect I think. The "scary" drop is what is causing most of the problems.

:2thumbs: Fixed!


P.S. I'm just kidding, what the wise ones above me said

[CarpeyBiggs]

Belly flop starts are awkward. For situations like this, its best to grab the webbing anchor, get on your knees with your back to the drop, and lean back slowly until the anchor takes your weight. Then extend your legs out in front of you, let go of the webbing, and its rappelling as usual. At least that's always worked for me in the past. Definitely takes some practice to get that technique finessed out.

The official ACA approved term for this type of start is a "monkeyhumper."

In typical canyon use: "Yo Rockgremlin, give me a courtesy anchor here, you can do the monkeyhumper start."

If you are having a hard time visualizing, it will all make sense the first time you see someone try to do an awkward start off a chockstone anchor in the skinnies.