TECH: Pirana Releasable Block

[rcwild]

http://www.canyoneering.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9844

[oldno7]

very similar to a figure 8 block, nice variation for pirana users. Best of all they are both blocks and releasable contingency anchors. Way better than simply a biner block. I use a fig. 8 block on a high % of rappels. :popcorn:

[Sombeech]

Where are the pictures?

[rcwild]

It happened again. Someone took it upon themselves to edit my post.

I received permission from the photographer (an ACA member) to post his images on the ACA's forum. No one, including me received permission to post the photos here. If anyone wants to see the photos, they need to click on the link I provided in the first post of this thread. The link works. I tested it. there is no problem with syntax.

If the moderator who edited my post does not want this thread here, delete the thread. Do not post the images without the photographer's permission.

[Steve Kazakos]

Permission Granted

[Sombeech]

Permission Granted

Welcome to the forum, Steve. :cool2:

By the way, thanks for the pics. I couldn't seem to get them open on that link. That's an interesting configuration.

[skianddive]

If anyone wants to see the photos, they need to click on the link I provided in the first post of this thread.
Some people do not want to sign on to another site just to see pictures, especially when each one of the 6 must be clicked on separately to see it. In addition, it is much easier to understand the sequence of the rigging when you can see the 6 pictures in succession, as Steve has graciously posted for us here at Bogley.


Do not post the images without the photographer's permission.
Umm, in case you hadn't noticed, Rich, pictures on the Internet are in the public domain, and unless you want to protect them with additional code, don't expect people to follow your rules.

If you want to credit the photographer, I suggest you use picture editing software to include the name of the person on the photo, as Tanya does with all of her beautiful pictures.

[kaptain]

This version of the releasable block needs a biner safety clip in the loop to be safe.

http://www.bogley.com/forum/files/pirana6.jpg

[rcwild]

Umm, in case you hadn't noticed, Rich, pictures on the Internet are in the public domain, and unless you want to protect them with additional code, don't expect people to follow your rules.

Not MY rules. Saying that photos on the internet are public domain is like saying a photo in a magazine is public domain so anyone has the right to copy it and publish it in their own magazine.

[rcwild]

This version of the releasable block needs a biner safety clip in the loop to be safe.

That is true and is stated next to the photo at its source.

[tanya]

...as Tanya does with all of her beautiful pictures.


I like you already :five:



Here is that code if anyone is interested.

http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex9/noright3.htm

[tanya]

This version of the releasable block needs a biner safety clip in the loop to be safe.



Welcome Kaptain :2thumbs:

[kaptain]

Welcome Kaptain :2thumbs:

:slobber:

[rcwild]

Permission Granted

This is really odd. I just got off the phone with Steve. He told me he did not join this group today and certainly would not have granted permission to use the last two photos, which are mine, not his.

I know, I know. I'm just being a drama queen again. Sorry.

[stefan]

pictures on the Internet are in the public domain, and unless you want to protect them with additional code, don't expect people to follow your rules.


yes, you're correct, people break the law all the time on the internet ... constantly. copyright law is broken repeatedly on the internet and , in particular, on this forum every day. even posting an article from news website on this forum often breaks copyright law.

on the other hand, i like to think there is an etiquette amongst related forums and their users.

i didn't see it, but if rich's post was modified, then there is a problem with that.

[skianddive]

Not MY rules. Saying that photos on the internet are public domain is like saying a photo in a magazine is public domain so anyone has the right to copy it and publish it in their own magazine.
You STATED the rule.

Magazines are protected by copyrights, so unless Steve copyrighted those pictures, they're public domain.

[rcwild]

Magazines are protected by copyrights, so unless Steve copyrighted those pictures, they're public domain.

You are mistaken if you believe intellectual property of any kind is not protected by copyright just because it's on the internet. Do some research. As Stefen already stated, it just happens to be much easier to break the law on the internet.

[skianddive]

I know, I know. I'm just being a drama queen again. Sorry.
Hell must have frozen over today - he finally admitted it! :roflol:

[rcwild]

In case you missed the entire post:



Permission Granted

This is really odd. I just got off the phone with Steve. He told me he did not join this group today and certainly would not have granted permission to use the last two photos, which are mine, not his.

I know, I know. I'm just being a drama queen again. Sorry.

[skianddive]

You are mistaken if you believe intellectual property of any kind is not protected by copyright just because it's on the internet. Do some research. As Stefen already stated, it just happens to be much easier to break the law on the internet.
I suggest you do some more research. I work on computers and websites so I am very familiar with copyright law. Thats' why I asked if Steve copyrighted his pictures.

[rcwild]

In case you missed the entire post:



Permission Granted

This is really odd. I just got off the phone with Steve. He told me he did not join this group today and certainly would not have granted permission to use the last two photos, which are mine, not his.

I know, I know. I'm just being a drama queen again. Sorry.

I really am curious to know who registered using Steve's name. Was it Glen Hyde? Or maybe Carl Armstrong? Or maybe Mr. Mustard? The butler? Only the shadow knows for sure.

[skianddive]

I really am curious to know who registered using Steve's name.
I don't know, but I think it's pretty funny and clever! :2thumbs:

[hank moon]

I peeked and the isp is not Shane's or anyone who moderates in the canyoneering forum. but whoever it is does have good taste. :cool2:

Nice to see he's developed a bit of subtlety! :haha:

[rcwild]

I suggest you do some more research. I work on computers and websites so I am very familiar with copyright law. Thats' why I asked if Steve copyrighted his pictures.

You'll find a clear summary of the law here:

http://webnet77.com/webstuff/copyright.html

[rcwild]

I peeked and the isp is not Shane's or anyone who moderates in the canyoneering forum.

Was it this one: 75.142.122.12

[tanya]

Nope. Just looks like some odd number but does not match with anyone's here I can see?

[rcwild]

Nope. Just looks like some odd number but does not match with anyone's here I can see?

That rules out Mr. Mustard. ... or does it?

[fouristhenewone]

it's not like a monkey, given time, couldn't use a proxy. geez...this site is really starting to become quite the dramatic forum. good thing the future promises more users and more useless drama :roll:

[tanya]

Nope. Just looks like some odd number but does not match with anyone's here I can see?

That rules out Mr. Mustard. ... or does it?


I don't know!? But I think you might be fun to play games with :naughty: or not. :mrgreen:

Why sweat the small stuff. :nod: --- and I am suppose to have my nose buried and writing and the drama has my attention. :frustrated:

My deadline is getting too close for games.


But then games are more fun than writing. :cool2:

And I should keep my mouth shut because I am just rambling. I have no answers and no clue what is going on. I just don't see it as a big deal.

[rcwild]

I don't know!? But I think you might be fun to play games with :naughty:

What kinda games do you like? Hubba hubba.

If it involves ropes, I'm your guy.

[tanya]

I don't know!? But I think you might be fun to play games with :naughty:

What kinda games do you like? Hubba hubba.

If it involves ropes, I'm your guy.


I could get into a man with your rope skills. :naughty:

[rcwild]

I could get into a man with your rope skills. :naughty:

Damn! You really are a naughty girl. Better get back to your homework. I'm going to go take a long cold shower.

[fouristhenewone]

i thought this was an all ages website. where's a moderator!!!!?????

[CarpeyBiggs]

i thought this was an all ages website. where's a moderator!!!!?????
bogley moderator is an oxymoron.

If anyone is interested, here are the forum rules:
http://bogley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3

Of course, on bogley, rules are more like suggestions. Suggestions that should be taken very lightly. :rockon:

[skianddive]

You'll find a clear summary of the law here:

http://webnet77.com/webstuff/copyright.html
Geez, Rich, I asked you to do some research, not find a *single* article written by an ambulance-chasing Internet lawyer who was put on probation by the CA State Bar for 3 years. The Bar did this because he was caught fleecing people all over the world who were looking to obtain a U.S. green card:

http://tinyurl.com/3ajhk2

It appears that he subsequently wrote the article so that he could try to regain his credibility and begin pursuing frivolous lawsuits for Internet clients. And you will note that the article is *his* interpretation of the law, not a summary of it.

But if you did some real research, you would find the websites that I use when I need legal advice on Internet copyright and trademark law. The first is www.nolo.com and their interpretation of the "Fair Use" rule:

http://tinyurl.com/g5eww

[NOTE: NoLo's lawyers write some great books using layman terms, including their "How to Form a Non-Profit Corporation in California". I have this book, and there's a great description of what out-of-state non-profits must do in order to do business in California. I'd send you copies of the relevant sections, but the book is protected by copyright law.]

The second is www.bitlaw.com which focuses on Technology Law:

http://www.bitlaw.com/copyright/unprotected.html

One thing I found interesting is that BitLaw does not reference Mr. Amkraut's article under its list of relevant Internet articles that pertain to Technology Law. Why do you suppose that is? Does anyone have a guess?

http://www.bitlaw.com/links/articles.html

I won't go into all of the boring details, but if you read from the above sites, you will see that there isn't a lawyer in the land, including David L. Amkraut, who would want to prosecute anyone for using those procedural images from Steven when they were posted here at Bogley.

And, thanks, Rich. I see you are still using my ideas to improve the ACA site without acknowledging my Intellectual Property. Within a couple of hours of my noting the problems with viewing images on your site, you revised your posts to embed all of your pics in one post, and you then modified the image usage rules so that they would be displayed without having to log on to the site.

[rcwild]

Geez, Rich, I asked you to do some research, not find a *single* article ...

You still don't get it. Just because a violation of the law is difficult to prosecute does not make it legal. People with ethics do their best to follow the law, even if they know they won't be caught if they break it.


And, thanks, Rich. I see you are still using my ideas to improve the ACA site ...

Actually, I started looking into it right after Sombeech said he couldn't see the images. But feel free to take the credit if you need to.

[rcwild]

For anyone actually interested in canyoneering ...

A few people have been playing around with the Pirana releasable block system and reporting favorably. NOTE: Steve is the only person I know who has used it in actual practice. Others are setting it up and testing in backyards and garages.

It seems to have a significant advantage over a standard releasable figure eight block in that it is much less likely to bind up with the rope pinched between the eight and the rap ring.

The one thing that was making people a bit nervous was the lock-off loop over the horns. When that part of the rope is not under tension, there is a concern that the loop may come off the horns. That issue could be resolved by keeping a close eye on it. Better yet, add another tie-off, like the one in the bottom two photos in someone-pretending-to-be-Steve's post near the beginning of this thread. Or tie a mule hitch using the brake strand around the rappel strand. Tie the mule tight up against the bottom of the Pirana to keep tension on the lock-off loop.

For anyone unfamiliar with the releasable figure eight block ... it has a huge advantage over other rigging systems. You don't need to learn blocks for some situations and contingency anchors for others. The figure eight block performs both functions. The releasable feature comes in handy when you toss the rope and are not quite sure if it reaches the ground. If it doesn't, simply release the block and feed out more rope. It also comes in handy when someone gets stuck on the rope (i.e. baggy clothing caught in rap device). When deployed in this "quick rescue" mode, it is important to have a rope twice the length of the rappel ... just in case someone becomes stuck near the top of the drop.

[tanya]

Happy Birthday Rich!

http://crazyprofile.com/myspace_graphics/imgs/birthday32.jpg

[skianddive]

You still don't get it.
I get it perfectly. You don't seem to understand, however, that a single article by an ambulance-chasing lawyer doesn't mean crap. If you took the time to look over some of the more expert material that I referenced, and then took the time to comprehend it, you would note that prosecuting people, for using instructional pictures which are not protected by a filed copyright and which are certainly not artistic, would be frivolous.

Now, if you took one of Tanya's pictures, which I know she hasn't copyrighted but she has signed, and then removed her watermark and passed them off as your own, she would have a *legal* case against you.



People with ethics do their best to follow the law, even if they know they won't be caught if they break it.
Just like the author of your reference article, huh?



Actually, I started looking into it right after Sombeech said he couldn't see the images. But feel free to take the credit if you need to.
I will take credit for it because I know what you did on the ACA site. Sombeech only complained of not being able to see the images, while you fixed *everything* that I complained about. You are not a very good fibber.

[skianddive]

Happy Birthday Rich!
Careful, Tanya. You're treading on thin ice by using that picture - looks artistic to me. :haha:

The Internet Image Nazi might turn you in!

[rcwild]

Happy Birthday Rich!

You're awesome, Tanya. Thank you. Now, if only you could deliver that in person ... :knary:

[skianddive]

http://outdoorstogether.com/images/rich_carlson_tombstone.jpg