Jury Duty

[sparker1]

I finally served on jury duty yesterday. It was an incredibly wasteful case. The defendant was charged with "Failure to obey a lawful command" at an accident scene. He wanted to turn left and refused to follow directions to go straight. He yelled at the cop directing traffic. He demanded to talk to a supervisor and later did just that. He refused to pay a $250 fine, insisting on a trial. He served as his own attorney (despite Mark Twain's historic warning), and did a poor job. We found him guilty, probably based more on stupidity than anything.

[wojo342]

Good for you for being willing to accept your civic responsibilities. So many people won't.

[Iceaxe]

I'm thinking the cop should have tasered someone....

[Felicia]

Innocent until proven guilty. Even Jack Ruby had a jury trial....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Ruby#Prosecution_and_conviction

Most of the time the defendant is guilty.....but every once in awhile the Defendant is found not guilty. There is still the difference between innocent and not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

The system may have flaws, but it is still the best yet!

There are two ways to serve your country: armed services and jury duty. Jury duty is safer. IMHO

:blahblah:

[greyhair biker]

I draw jury duty like a magnet. The last one was the best...showed up, talked to a beautiful woman on the jury out waiting to go in to be picked or not, sat down in the presence of the judge only to find the case had been plead out of court. The one before that one was a meth dealer vs. a buyer who had helped the dealer steal a highperformance racing motor to pay for her fix, she didnt get what she was supposed to get out of the motor so she ratted him out....case drug on for days only to have the case thrown out because the police dept 'failed' to submit a crucial video interview into evidence on time. :ne_nau:

[Scott Card]

There is still the difference between innocent and not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.



Woah..... someone actually gets it and can make the critical distinction Wow... nicely done :2thumbs:

[JP]

I'm thinking the cop should have tasered someone....
It would have made the case more interesting :haha:

[Cirrus2000]

I'm thinking the cop should have tasered someone....
It would have made the case more interesting :haha:
Or, if it had killed the victim, totally negated the need for it. (Anybody been hearing about this Polish fellow tasered at the Vancouver airport? Definitely overkill. Literally.)

Of course, then there would be inquests and investigations - and perhaps another type of trial altogether...

Way to go, Stan, doing your civic duty. I've never been called for it. I'd certainly be willing to try it out.

[JP]

Or, if it had killed the victim
Wrong :nono: Victims don't get tazed, violators get tazed. Do you have any idea how many people have been tazed throughout the U.S. and were fine minutes later? Not including every Po-Po that gets tazed when getting trained/certified with those things? Where were you when people died from getting pepper sprayed? That's still around. Not one Po-Po who has been tazed, died from that training. You know who is? The same type who died being peppered; ones with illegal substances in their systems. Less than lethal measures the Po-Po takes to take a situation under control is a constant evolving process. If they can have ways that would leave the public, Po-Po's and last but not least, the violator from being injured and or killed...they're going for it. You have no idea how many situations the Po-Po get into that could lead to a justifiable shoot, no idea. Less than lethal measures prevents these situations from escalating or even in some escalated situations, saving the life of the violator. Just like the pill, less than lethal means is not 100%. Sure, for all you sympathetic, light-hearted, easily disturbed laymen it does look like a nasty thing to get those charged darts into your body. The question is, after being nailed, did the violator become compliant? Was the violator able to escalate the situation? Was the violator a threat to others or themselves? Was the Po-Po subjected to injury placing the violator under arrest? No, the word compliant comes to mind. No more aggression, no more non-compliance. So, get over how bad it looks, it's not electric shock therapy. That's the problem broadcasting this stuff to the general public, they are completely uneducated in situations that the Po-Po's do on a regular basis. The only good to showing it; when the Po-Po tells you to stop whatever it is your doing or you'll get tazed, the non-Darwinites will stop like they should :mrgreen:

[Cirrus2000]

Or, if it had killed the victim
Wrong :nono: Victims don't get tazed, violators get tazed.
Point taken - and I agree. In 99.9+% of the cases.

This one being looked into here in Vancouver is different, however. Simply a guy who didn't speak English, no one around spoke Polish, and he was stuck without any help in the baggage area of the airport for 10 hours. He became "agitated". Tossed a chair or two. Police came, he wasn't particularly threatening (there were 4 cops, and no civilians around except outside the glass-walled room). They Tasered him - twice. Then pinned him to the ground (knee against neck) - against all established procedures. Guy died.

I'm known as quite liberal around here, but not when it comes to crime and punishment. You will not find me hand-wringing and heart-bleeding over punishing the wrong-doing little shits out there. This case however - it's got me scratching my head, saying WTF were the cops thinking? I figure this guy was a victim.

BTW, I'm not arguing against Tasers - not at all. I think they're a great tool, though like all tools there's a time, place and method to using them correctly.

Anyway... Maybe this stuff should move into the political forum or something? :)

[JP]

wasn't particularly threatening
Then pinned him to the ground (knee against neck) - against all established procedures. Guy died.

You will not find me hand-wringing and heart-bleeding over punishing the wrong-doing little shits out there.
Either he was or he wasn't. Any video that hit the Net on that?

Yes, I have noticed your heart stops bleeding for the jack@$$'s out there :haha:

[Cirrus2000]

wasn't particularly threatening
Either he was or he wasn't. Any video that hit the Net on that?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-sC2Wy4H8-M

The most threatening gesture is at 3:45, when he throws his hands up and turns away from the cops. He gets hit at 3:54. When that happens he staggers forwards - toward the cops. Didn't have much choice, he was backed up against a counter. At that point, he gets hit again. Then, while he convulses on the ground, they all leap on him.

There's a lot of controversy over the whole situation. It really spiraled out of control. The guy spent 10 hours between Border Services checkpoints (where the luggage comes out), presumably waiting for his mother (who lives here) to meet him. Nobody helped him out, nobody did anything. Says something about our so-called civil society. His mother couldn't get into the secured area, and no one outside would help her (Airport Authority people). So he waited, and waited. After a long flight, 10 more hours with nothing to eat, nothing to drink, frustrated, etc. Yeah, he was agitated, and his temper got up. How would any of us be doing? He started throwing a chair, computer stuff, while no one was near him. So yeah, he needed to be apprehended, to prevent a threat to anyone (or himself.) However, I didn't see a serious threat to the 4 (four!) officers confronting him.

Yes, I have noticed your heart stops bleeding for the jack@$$'s out there :haha:
Yup, I'm pretty heart-bleedy a lot of the time. Just got no patience for that stuff. I figure that in society, breaking the rules that hold us together is grounds for a serious time-out.

[JP]

My guess, proximal hypoxia. I think that's what they call it.

And, keep in mind, he's in an airport where security is still pretty high. I have no idea if the cops knew how long he was there, but security should have. Again, it's used to stop the escalation of a violent situation. It doesn't matter if he was surrounded or cornered, he would have expected the same type of action by the Russian police. They're uniformed and wearing guns. It's always unfortunate when someone loses their life. Many factors should have came into play, well before the police were called. Again, post 911 and airports will have less tolerance for unruly people. I'm leaning towards that proximal hypoxia than the tazer being the cause of his death.