Granary Canyon? [Archive] - Bogley Outdoor Community

rockgremlin

11-26-2007, 07:34 AM

They list a 45 minute drive to the begining. That takes you quite aways out of town. The website list 2000 ft of vertical drop. Thats pretty hard to obtain in the moab area.

Except for those mountains right next to town....

:lol8: Ya mean those mountains with the 12,000+ ft peaks there to the southeast?

Just recently I caught wind of a "pretty good slot" just off the La Sal Loop road...stay tuned...

moab mark

11-26-2007, 08:09 AM

Last time I checked the LaSals do not resemble slickrock. So I do not think the canyon adventure is coming off the top of those mtns to the Southeast.

Iceaxe

11-26-2007, 08:20 AM

45 minutes driving time is not very far, particularly if dirt roads are involved. 2000' of elevation describes just about the entire Moab area.

CarpeyBiggs

11-26-2007, 08:28 AM

Last time I checked the LaSals do not resemble slickrock. So I do not think the canyon adventure is coming off the top of those mtns to the Southeast.

Keep looking...

rockgremlin

11-26-2007, 08:55 AM

Last time I checked the LaSals do not resemble slickrock. So I do not think the canyon adventure is coming off the top of those mtns to the Southeast.

Yes but.....sandstone outcrops occur at 8000 ft at the base of the La Sals. Sure its not your typical slickrock forming Navajo Sandstone, but it is sandstone, and it weathers the same way. All of this is water under the bridge anyways in the case of Granary canyon. It appears that Granary is in Navajo Sandstone, and so the La Sals is not a good place to start your search. I still suspect the Potash Road that loops around Amasa Back. Lots of little slots around that area. "Cameltoe canyon" used to be a route that was used by Moab guiding companies in the past.

moab mark

11-26-2007, 09:25 AM

yea I agree it has to drop down to the colorado. They state at Desert Highlights that the shuttle can be done with a rental car. So the road cannot be to rough. So they can't drop off of Poison spider/Golden Spike or Cliff Hanger on the other side. They could go out around Spring Canyon on the Green river side thats about 45 minutes and you can drive a car down to the river but there is not alot of sandstone out there either. Or out Hurrah Pass area. Dead horse is 2000 ft. vertical but not exactly slick rock in that area either. Maybe I'll have to just pay them to take me but that takes all the fun out of it. Could be down in the Newspaper Rock area thats about 45 minutes from town. Or the 2000' vertical drop is incorrect and it could be anywhere. We've done all the ones on Climb Utah in the moab area and are looking for new adventures.
Mark

Iceaxe

11-26-2007, 09:32 AM

They state at Desert Highlights that the shuttle can be done with a rental car.

Hint: Rental cars can go lots of places that normal cars can't. :haha:

We've done all the ones on Climb Utah in the moab area and are looking for new adventures.

Keep watching.... I hope to have more good Moab stuff up in the next month or so...

:five:

moab mark

11-26-2007, 09:46 AM

Yea Rental Cars are pretty impressive but I want to watch one do Posion Golden or Cliff Hanger. I'll bring the strap to help get it back out of kane creek at the bottom of CLiff Hanger. Oh you had an earlier post on here of a new canyon in Moab you were doing over Thanksgiving, did you go and if you did, did it have a granary in the middle of it. Since taking this canyoneering activity up I am suprised there are not more slot canyons in this area.

rockgremlin

11-26-2007, 10:39 AM

Granary = definitely not in the area of Newspaper Rock, although I suspect there might be a few decent canyoneering routes in that vicinity, especially going over towards Lavender Canyon in the Needles district.

Iceaxe

11-26-2007, 10:54 AM

rockgremlin

11-26-2007, 11:30 AM

We moved our Moab canyon trip to the weekend of Dec 1...

And I believe there are a lot of interesting canyons in the Moab area. It's just that most have not shown up in guidebooks or become popular yet... I expect that to change over the next couple of years.

For some stramge reason certain areas get skipped by the guys who are serious about finding new canyons and I believe that is the case with Moab in general. Not sure why it's been overlooked for so long... maybe because Moab is more of a party and ATV place and that makes it unpopular with most of the serious treehugger/canyoneer/forest fairy type crowd?

And hint number two: Many canyoneers would think nothing of hiking the Posion, Golden or Cliff Hanger 4x4 routes if it delivered the goods.

:popcorn:

I think another reason is because most of the Moab area slots are not your typical slot canyon that most are used to seeing in the Roost or North Wash, where a slot will stay a slot for long periods at a time. Pretty much all Moab slots are better classified as "canyoneering routes," where a canyon will slot up, then open up wide, then slot up again, then open up wide again, etc, etc. Where many North Wash or Roost slots will stay slotted up for miles at a time, Moab slots are best measured in feet (or meters).

moab mark

11-26-2007, 11:34 AM

Ok the serious tree hugger/canyoneer/forest fairy type crowd comment brought tears to my eyes. For hint #3 which one of the mention jeep trail would the canyoneerer have to hike up. With your last hint you could jeep or hike up cliff hanger and then drop down into Kane Creek over where the old killer kane jeep trail was or anywhere along kane creek.
Tried to hike from the top of killer kane to Cliff hanger back when we could go up that trail but couldn't find a way through. Thought it would be a great mtn bike ride up cliff hanger and down killer kane.
We dropped into the Corona Arch area one time off of Golden spike. But all of these canyoneering activites are pretty short. Desert Highlights are talking about quite along trip with multiple rappels and alot of vertical drop. As you stated I think there has to be alot of slots that haven't been located, nothing like zion but more like morning glory medeivl

Iceaxe

11-26-2007, 11:47 AM

I didn't say it was or wasn't one of the mentioned routes.... just saying you need to give some thought to hiking off some of the jeep routes.

One problem is I don't know which jeep route is which.... I'm not a hardcore 4x4 (or mountain bike) type guy.

Hey Mark, do you live in the Moab area or just visit?

:popcorn:

CarpeyBiggs

11-26-2007, 12:07 PM

If I was to venture a guess, I'd say the 2,000 feet is probably a bit exaggerated, and I'd also say this isn't a "full day" canyon. Guide services tend to take their time, especially if there is a lot of rappeling. I'd say Granary is probably a 5-6 hour canyon, with a lengthy car shuttle that rounds it out...

I'll also say that Potash road or Amassa Back area is your best bet. But really, you aren't going to get much more beta than that because no one on here has ever done it. Chances are Shane has the beta, but he isn't going to give it out for free. And he will probably wait to do it himself first. Right Shane?

As for slots in Moab, Matt at Desert Highlights has put in the most time finding these places, and most people respect the fact that he is guiding them for his livelihood, so they don't make it a point to find them or frequent them. If lots of people start using the guided routes, it is bad for everyone, generally speaking (IMO). Also, I think many would argue that the quality of "slot" or canyon around Moab is generally not as good as other areas.

Iceaxe

11-26-2007, 12:17 PM

I think many would argue that the quality of "slot" or canyon around Moab is generally not as good as other areas.

I'd argue that point.... I'd say the slots around Moab are as good as most others, big thing is they are "different", and a lot of folks have trouble thinking outside the box or they don't have the experiance to "see" a good route.

YMMV

CarpeyBiggs

11-26-2007, 12:23 PM

I'd argue that point.... I'd say the slots around Moab are as good as most others, big thing is they are "different", and a lot of folks have trouble thinking outside the box or they don't have the experiance to "see" a good route.

YMMV

Different strokes for different folks... But let's really be honest here, you just love Moab canyons because they are close to hotels, booze, and ESPN.

Iceaxe

11-26-2007, 12:52 PM

Different strokes for different folks... But let's really be honest here, you just love Moab canyons because they are close to hotels, booze, and ESPN.

Don't forget wild women..... :2thumbs:

But "NO".... most folks just haven't figure it out yet.... there are several canyon routes around Moab that will get the ol' pucker factor up dang high, which is what I think a lot of the hardcore type folks look for. And it's hard to find more pretty country anywhere, which is what I think a lot of the weekend warrior types look for.

And I also disagree with your reasoning on why many of the Moab routes are flying under the radar. I just don't think it's been hit hard yet in any type of "professional" manner. Curious to see what, if anything, comes out in Kelsey's next book. I know he has poked around in the area a little. And while I know Matt hate's to see "his" routes become popular, I'd say its pretty hard to argue they should be a private cash register when they are on public land.

:popcorn:

CarpeyBiggs

11-26-2007, 01:08 PM

But "NO".... most folks just haven't figure it out yet.... there are several canyon routes around Moab that will get the ol' pucker factor up dang high, which is what I think a lot of the hardcore type folks look for. And it's hard to find more pretty country anywhere, which is what I think a lot of the weekend warrior types look for.
Really? Where are these fantastic canyons you speak of? Must be Cameltoe, or maybe Tierdrop and Bighorn? Or maybe Courthouse Wash? You holding out on us Shane?

I'd say its pretty hard to argue they should be a private cash register when they are on public land.
Of course you would argue that, you gotta get your fingers in that cookie jar too, right? You should at least give Matt some kickbacks though, since you are just finding his routes anyways.

There are plenty of reasons why the Moab stuff doesn't get done a lot. Mainly, there just isn't a lot of really good canyons (whatever that means...) There might be some fun "routes" but I wouldn't call most of them slots.

Iceaxe

11-26-2007, 01:41 PM

Of course you would argue that, you gotta get your fingers in that cookie jar too, right? You should at least give Matt some kickbacks though, since you are just finding his routes anyways.

Does this mean Matt should be giving me a kick back on everyone he guides through Leprechaun, Blarney and Shimrock???

Just want to know when I should start looking for my check in the mail.

:popcorn:

You holding out on us Shane?

Holding out is not the words I'd use.... just haven't got around to completing several projects..... And I can't post one without giving up the others..... and I'd like to wait until after Kelsey's next book so they don't show up there..... and.. and...

I know it's not your cup of tea, but a web page noting something like Big Horn gets about 100 times the hits as a web page listing some obscure hardcore canyon that only a relative few have the skills to do. In other words.... I attempt to cater my stuff to the majority and add the rest when the opportunity arises.

And I know how much you enjoy poking fun at things like my different swimming hole pages.... but they are some of my most popular attractions.

There are plenty of reasons why the Moab stuff doesn't get done a lot. Mainly, there just isn't a lot of really good canyons (whatever that means...)

Thanks for making my point... That's the attitude that has caused Moab to be overlooked....

All I can say is.... seek and you shall find.

:cool2:

CarpeyBiggs

11-26-2007, 02:34 PM

Holding out is not the words I'd use.... just haven't got around to completing several projects..... And I can't post one without giving up the others..... and I'd like to wait until after Kelsey's next book so they don't show up there..... and.. and...
Oh come now, you can't put this on MK. We know it hasn't stopped you before. Almost all of your stuff coincides with his stuff anyways.

I know it's not your cup of tea, but a web page noting something like Big Horn gets about 100 times the hits as a web page listing some obscure hardcore canyon that only a relative few have the skills to do. In other words.... I attempt to cater my stuff to the majority and add the rest when the opportunity arises.
Can't fault you for that. No doubt there is lots of great stuff to be seen all around Moab. I just wouldn't consider it quality canyoneering. But what do I know, I talk like I've seen all of it down there. I'm sure there is much I haven't the faintest clue about. Technical canyons though? Probably not. Nice destinations, hikes, and "routes?" Yeah, probably.

And I know how much you enjoy poking fun at things like my different swimming hole pages.... but they are some of my most popular attractions.
Again, I poke a little fun, but I can see why you are adding those. No doubt your stuff fills a niche for those types of destinations. All I'm saying is it probably isn't enough to keep me renewing my $30 a year, that's all.

Thanks for making my point... That's the attitude that has caused Moab to be overlooked....
Overlooked by whom? There is a lot of good stuff out there. It is "overlooked" by most of the canyoneers simply because it isn't a choice canyon destination, compared to other locations.

All I can say is.... seek and you shall find.
Or figure out what other people are doing, and you shall find... :lol8:

moab mark

11-26-2007, 02:37 PM

I do not live in moab , I live in Kaysville. I just go there several times a month in the good months for the past 15 years. I mainly jeep and mountain bike. But a few years ago went on a Scout outing to Zion and got hooked on this canyoneering gig.
As far as finding a route from Desert Highlights I can see both sides of the arguement. On oneside I look on Climb Utah and most of the ones that Desert Highlights list Shane list. Who had them first is neither here or there to me it's public land. If Desert Highlights wanted to sale the beta to the canyon like shane is doing by joining his website I would surely pay. I do not mind paying them for the info and I will have to probably go with them to learn about it but it's is alot more of an adventure going by yourself.
The same type of problem has come up with the Jeep Safari. The club has made arrangements with the BLM to keep people off the trails to cut down congestion when they are running them during the safari. Is this fair or not. They developed most of these trails over time and without the support of the jeep club fighting legal battles against the "fairy tree huggers" :haha: there would probably be alot of those trails closed. As far as making money the Charles Wells book (I think that's his name) has sold a ton of copies detailing the trails in moab, and did the jeep club get a cut for showing him around?
On this same topic I read somewhere that Zion Adventure had tied up some canyon around Zion for doing teaching and training. Is this on public land or Private? Anyone know anything about this?
On Shanes point on slots in moab, the beauty of moab is, not only can you canyoneer but you can also bike, jeep and stay in really nice motels with pools and resturants. My wife and kids like that part. Zion is absolutely awesome but doesn't cater nearly as well to the whole family like moab does. Im done rambling now.
Thanks

Iceaxe

11-26-2007, 03:23 PM

Oh come now, you can't put this on MK. We know it hasn't stopped you before. Almost all of your stuff coincides with his stuff anyways.

Kelsey was one of the many reasons I listed, you can't just pick the one reason that suits your argument..... but.... Kelsey is a member of the Circle of Friends and I have every one of his books in my library. We also have many of the same friends, connections and associates. I talk shop with MK several times each year and consider him a friend.... so is it really a big surprise that we have a major amount of over lap??? But we still try and top each other, its just part of the game. I understand MK is pretty excited that his next book has some stuff I have not heard of.

Again, I poke a little fun, but I can see why you are adding those. No doubt your stuff fills a niche for those types of destinations. All I'm saying is it probably isn't enough to keep me renewing my $30 a year, that's all.

Honestly.... a guy like you is not my target audience. You are now well enough connected in the canyon community that you can probably get a route description to anything I might have on my website from other sources, particularly after its several months old. But that is also one of the reasons I've tried to lower the renewal rates is to keep more members like you.... at some point in time it becomes cheaper and less hassle for a guy like you to just renew then it is to chase the info and gather the maps through other venues.

Or figure out what other people are doing, and you shall find... :lol8:

Hell..... I've never denied that.... or stated otherwise.... probably 80% or more of the routes I post come from "outside sources". I get a tremendous amount of help from a lot of different people and I really appreciate every one of those who help.

As for the rest.... YES, you are correct..... no good canyons around Moab, nothing to see there, nothing of interest, just move along please, no reason to stop or look....

:cool2:

Iceaxe

11-26-2007, 03:32 PM

Mark,

ZAC has permission to guide Oak Creek in Zion and the entire canyon is on private land. More info here:

http://climb-utah.com/Zion/oc-sf1.htm

As for Moab I hope to have additional routes up soon. More Moab is currently at the top of my to-do list as it is the most requested destination.

:treehugger:

CarpeyBiggs

11-27-2007, 11:46 AM

As for the rest.... YES, you are correct..... no good canyons around Moab, nothing to see there, nothing of interest, just move along please, no reason to stop or look....

Ok, I fold. There are a few that look nice. Entrajo also looks real good... Is that on your radar? I'll renew my fee if you give me Entrajo, Granary, and Pleaides. :2thumbs:

rockgremlin

11-27-2007, 11:59 AM

I'll renew my fee if you give me Entrajo, Granary, and Pleaides. :2thumbs:

I already told ta where Pleaides is....granted I haven't been through there yet, but I've been to it's head, and the descriptions all check out. I'm pretty sure the days of Pleaides' secrecy are numbered, and I'm pretty sure that number is less than 365.

Iceaxe

11-27-2007, 12:05 PM

I'll renew my fee if you give me Entrajo, Granary, and Pleaides. :2thumbs:

Dang... that works out to $6.67 for each route..... nice to see you blow the dust off your wallet.... hope you can squeak it open with all the rust in the hinges.

:roflol: :roflol: :roflol:

CarpeyBiggs

11-27-2007, 12:13 PM

Dang... that works out to $6.67 for each route..... nice to see you blow the dust off your wallet.... hope you can squeak it open with all the rust in the hinges.

Me too... But just think, if I buy Kelsey's book, I get routes for something like $.10 a piece, and I get to keep it forever... :five:

Seriously though, what's the deal on Entrajo?

CarpeyBiggs

11-27-2007, 12:15 PM

I already told ta where Pleaides is....granted I haven't been through there yet, but I've been to it's head, and the descriptions all check out. I'm pretty sure the days of Pleaides' secrecy are numbered, and I'm pretty sure that number is less than 365.

Congratulations, I know that one has been a real thorn in your ass for awhile now... :haha:

Iceaxe

11-27-2007, 01:33 PM

Seriously though, what's the deal on Entrajo?

I have a bunch of beta on Moab stuff to do.... but honestly.... I usually don't know which are Matt's canyon until after I do them. Then I compare the route to pictures on Matt's website. I've never specifically targeted Matt's routes.

Lot of times I get beta by chatting up a hiker/jeeper/climber/ranger and they will mention "I saw a guide with clients at X spot." Then I can usually figure it out. But also something to remember, Matt is not the only one guiding canyons in Moab, so just because I know a route is being guided doesn't mean it's one of Matt's.

And the guides do a descent job of trying to hide their routes.... A few years back on of the Moab guides was advertising "Cass Canyon" and it looked spectacular from the pictures..... took me a while to figure out it was the popular Black Hole.

Anyhoo... what I'm really saying is.... I might or might not have Entrajo. But I do not currently have the route with that name pinned to it.

:cool2:

stefan

11-27-2007, 01:58 PM

Me too... But just think, if I buy Kelsey's book, I get routes for something like $.10 a piece, and I get to keep it forever... :five:

of course it's not terribly difficult to keep a website forever either. just dump all the files to disk. many lovely programs do this.

CarpeyBiggs

11-27-2007, 02:06 PM

Anyhoo... what I'm really saying is.... I might or might not have Entrajo. But I do not currently have the route with that name pinned to it

Gotcha. I thought I remembered you posting you had done the it before, so I was wondering why it wasn't on your site. Anyways, it looks good.

of course it's not terribly difficult to keep a website forever either. just dump all the files to disk. many lovely programs do this.
Indeed. But what I would really love.... Is if Shane made them into PDF's that were designed to be printed... Wuddya think Shane? That would be sweet.

Iceaxe

11-27-2007, 02:44 PM

Gosh.... I'm trying to hold costs down so Carpey will blow the dust off his wallet and now he wants me to add more features???? :roll:

I agree... The PDF's are sweet.... but making the routes into a PDF is a pain in the butt for me because every time I change a route I also have to change the PDF, and I'm always changing stuff. Dozens of small items get changed every month and only the major revisions get noted.

Several years ago I did redo the site to make it printer friendly and to strip out all the pictures. From your side it only requires the click of a button to print the route, and if you want to be really cool just send the page to your PDF print driver and you have what you desire.

I do know a lot of folks keep my site in a binder.... after the inital printing it's pretty simple to keep it reasonably current because I do list all major revisions. I've also toyed with the idea of making the site avaiable on CD, but really its just more hassle to me then its worth.

You guys sometimes forget the website is just a hobby to me. But I do appreciate the suggestions on improving the site.

:popcorn:

CarpeyBiggs

11-27-2007, 04:11 PM

Gosh.... I'm trying to hold costs down so Carpey will blow the dust off his wallet and now he wants me to add more features????
And your costs are just through the roof, I'm sure... :roflol:

I do know a lot of folks keep my site in a binder.... after the inital printing it's pretty simple to keep it reasonably current because
I do the same, I just don't think they are formatted well for the printed page... I've reformatted them for myself, to make them print all on one page, which is what is the most annoying aspect of the current design. I find it preferable to carry the beta and the map on one paper, front and back. Why waste paper, right?

You guys sometimes forget the website is just a hobby to me. But I do appreciate the suggestions on improving the site.
Nope, didn't forget. But since I am a paying customer, I figured I'd offer up what I'd like to see. Take it for what it's worth. (about $30 per year :haha: )