Help Me Choose a New DSLR

[gonzo]

I got a small bonus at work, and I've decided to be irresponsible and blow it on a DSLR camera, but I can't decide which one to buy. My budget is around $1200, and I would like to purchase a camera and a decent zoom telephoto lens.

Given my history, it's safe to say that I'll be using it mostly to take landscape pictures, but now that I have a new daughter (http://flickr.com/photos/kris247/1400334538/) I would like to be able to do portraits, as well. I would also like to do some skiing/hiking action shot, and wildlife photography.

I'm leaning towards the Canon Digital Rebel XTi (http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=14256), with a Canon EF 70-300mm (http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=150&modelid=11922) zoom telephoto lens. But, I'm concerned that the kit lens is junk. (General consensus is that the kit lens is soft, and exhibits some purple fringing and barrel distortion).

I'm also considering the Nikon D80 (http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php?cat=1&grp=2&productNr=25412). My friend just bought one, and I've been pretty impressed with the camera. Since that's a more expensive camera I probably can't afford a good zoom telephoto lens right now, so I'd have to put it on the wish list.

I should also note that with a zoom telephoto lens I want something with image stabilization or vibration reduction built-in so I don't have to tote around a tripod while I'm skiing and hiking.

What do y'all think?

[sparker1]

Kris, I have a Canon 30D and several L lenses, but also the kit 17-55. I have lots of respect for Canon products and do recommend them. At the same time, Nikon has a great line of DSLR's and lenses. You can't go wrong either way. Reviews I've read are high on the new Sony Alpha, but I have no direct knowledge. Having previously owned a Sony P&S, I feel Sony has the technology and commitment to be a long term player in this field. Once you start investing in lenses, you will be with that company forever.

[CarpeyBiggs]

Wow. You want it all. :lol8:

Are you tied to either Canon or Nikon? I personally am a Canon fan, but both options are more than functional. But I'll speak to my experience, and say the XTi will fit you nicely. There are other options too, like the pentax, sony, and olympus. Problem is, if you want to "grow up" with your gear, they don't have as many upgrade paths. Still good starter kits though.

The lens is where you will drop the most coin. I personally think the kit lens gets a really bad rap. For heaven's sake, it is only about 60 bucks. It ain't perfect, but it is decent enough for almost any casual user. I'd say get the kit, use it, and figure out what you will need later , then sell the kit if you really don't like it. I'd bet that if you aren't a measurbator, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. I used the kit lens for a long time before moving up to nicer glass.

Basically, you'll need two lenses. Wide, and Telephoto. The kit is a functional wide angle to start. In Canon glass, the telephotos within your budget are a 70-300 (~$180), a 70-300IS (~$600) and a 70-200 f4L (~500). Only one has IS, but the 70-200 is considered a professional grade lens, and is really fantastic. That's the one I own for backpacking and hiking. It's not super long when it comes to telephoto, but it is sharp.

Body: Rebel XTi = $700 (with kit lens)
Wide Glass: Kit (18-55) (included in above)
Telephoto: 70-200 ($550)

Comes in at 1250 or so. Another option would be to buy used. Deals can be had, especially on bodies. (I have a rebel XT I might sell here soon, btw).

You can also consider "third party" lenses, like Sigma, Tamron, or Tokina.

Sigma makes a 17-50 2.8 (no IS, but on a wide, it isn't as important) that would be killer for landscapes and portraits. It runs about $400, IIRC. But that wouldn't leave room for much more.

[gonzo]

I feel Sony has the technology and commitment to be a long term player in this field.

I don't think I've been happy with any Sony electronics that I've purchased in the past 10 years. I've been through a camera, a laptop, and several other small household electronics, and every time I've felt like it's been overpriced, under engineered, and flimsy (especially the laptop). I will never buy another Sony product again - especially if it uses their horrible batteries.


Wow. You want it all.

Yeah...I do. :) Although, it looks like my budget just got cut down significantly, so I'll have to settle for the camera and kit lens. For now...

[CarpeyBiggs]

I don't think I've been happy with any Sony electronics that I've purchased in the past 10 years. I've been through a camera, a laptop, and several other small household electronics, and every time I've felt like it's been overpriced, under engineered, and flimsy (especially the laptop). I will never buy another Sony product again - especially if it uses their horrible batteries.


Sony makes all the sensors for Nikon as well... :haha:

[Alex]

My experience is about 1/100 of the previous posters, but I did buy a Canon XTi and took it back. I am a noob when it comes to the photography and all my pics turned out kind of dark (required a lot of editing).

Then I got d80 Nikon and loved the quality but hated the weight of it. I felt like i was doing weight lifting while photographing flowers. Looked at d200, but it scared the hell out of me with all the options.

So I settled down with the d40 Nikon, it's a perfect little camera, half the weight of XTi and comes with a decent kit lens. I found a deal for $583 shipped. It's light enough for my wife to have fun with and the pictures turn out pretty decent without editing. Obviously with dSLR you can control all you want (shutter, iso, white balance, AP, etc) and still can stick the camera into the belt pouch during hikes.

If you are as pro as Dan and the other guys here, then I wouldn't listen to my newbie opinion and go for bigger/better equipment and glass

Just my 2 newbie cents :2thumbs:

[CarpeyBiggs]

My experience is about 1/100 of the previous posters, but I did buy a Canon XTi and took it back. I am a noob when it comes to the photography and all my pics turned out kind of dark (required a lot of editing).
User error, Alex? :haha:



So I settled down with the d40 Nikon, it's a perfect little camera, half the weight of XTi and comes with a decent kit lens. I found a deal for $583 shipped. It's light enough for my wife to have fun with and the pictures turn out pretty decent without editing. Obviously with dSLR you can control all you want (shutter, iso, white balance, AP, etc) and still can stick the camera into the belt pouch during hikes.
This is good information, because everyone will have different preferences in cameras. Couple things about the D40 is that it doesn't have a motor to drive autofocus in some lenses. Also, the weight of the D40 is 17 ounces, the XTi is 18. Both are very lightweight in the DSLR world.

The D40 is a great choice though, and you can get them with the kit lens for around $500, and some kit options are less than 650, with a wide and telephoto.

http://tinyurl.com/2lnowb

[JP]

Sigma makes a 17-50 2.8 (no IS, but on a wide, it isn't as important) that would be killer for landscapes and portraits.
I use the Sigma DC 17-50 lens on the Sigma SD14. It takes some sweet landscape shots :2thumbs:


User error, Alex? :haha:
Ahhh, go easy :mrgreen: Not everybody can manipulate these things :haha:

[Alex]

User error, Alex? :haha:
Ahhh, go easy :mrgreen: Not everybody can manipulate these things :haha:

Na, Dan has all the right to give me $hit. He almost saw a dead russian that one day up in the mountains :lol8:

And ya, I really don't get the whole manual photography. I've gone out with Dan a couple of times now and he just looks at the damn mountain and knows that it's a F22, ISO200, 1/64 shutter speed with exp compensation of +3 with flash off......I look at it and see an "Auto" setting :eek2: :lol8:

So that's why I tried to find the most dumbed down dSLR I could.... d40 came pretty close. Also, the whole thing about the motor for the lenses, that's only if you use older lenses or some odd ones with no motor on them (as I was told). Most normal Nikon lenses would have a motor on it. Isn't that right Dan?

[CarpeyBiggs]

I'm not giving you shit Alex, just joking around.

Here's the fateful photography trip he mentioned... We were supposed to have a little photography trip. Ended up being a suicide watch.

http://uutah.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7077

[JP]

Here is a little image from the sunset at the cirque...

http://danransom.com/blog/images/20070525120239_hiddenlakescirque.jpg



I have to ask! How did you get that photo? That can't be digital is it?

Nice pic, I like how the sunset glow is seen in the snow. I like Tanya's questions :haha: Being in the right place at the right time and sure it can :lol8:

[gonzo]

If you are as pro as Dan and the other guys here, then I wouldn't listen to my newbie opinion and go for bigger/better equipment and glass

Oh, I'm a newbie, for sure. But, I don't trust my digital camera anymore (not sure if I ever have, really), and I figure as long as I'm buying equipment I might as well get something I can grow with.

I'm bummed that I lost a big chunk of my budget (so much for a nice zoom telephoto lens) but I'll still pick up a camera.

[CarpeyBiggs]

BTW, Kris, where you been man? Seems like you disappeared for the last few weeks.

[gonzo]

My wife and I had our first baby about a month ago, and things have kinda exploded at work, so I've been really busy. (Nothing like working 10-12 hour days, followed by nights of 4 hours of sleep). Things are kinda quiet right now, so I figured I would check in and get some camera advice.

I hoping to get out and do some hiking this weekend. My plan was to have a new camera by then. Hopefully I can make it happen.

[CarpeyBiggs]

Congrats on the baby. :2thumbs:

[sparker1]

My wife and I had our first baby about a month ago, and things have kinda exploded at work, so I've been really busy. (Nothing like working 10-12 hour days, followed by nights of 4 hours of sleep). Things are kinda quiet right now, so I figured I would check in and get some camera advice.

I hoping to get out and do some hiking this weekend. My plan was to have a new camera by then. Hopefully I can make it happen.

Ahhh, the good old days. Congrats on the kid. Seems you have narrowed the field pretty well. Do the lenses for the D40 work with D80 and above? If so, you have a growth path. Or, just toss the kit lens when you move up. Probably can't go wrong there.

[goofball]

one more thing to consider is the software to convert/edit. canon has really decent software in teh digital photo pro and zoom browser ex that comes w/ the camera. this was a big factor in my choice of the xti. i have been really pleased w/ the xti. sprung for the efs 17-85 and total bill was ~1200.

[JP]

Congrats on the new edition :2thumbs:

[Alex]

one more thing to consider is the software to convert/edit. canon has really decent software in teh digital photo pro and zoom browser ex that comes w/ the camera. this was a big factor in my choice of the xti. i have been really pleased w/ the xti. sprung for the efs 17-85 and total bill was ~1200.

That's what I read that if you do end up getting another lens, XTi is a great choice. I personally just use Photoshop, especially after Dan showed me his ways with the devil :twisted:

[Sombeech]

Hi fellas. Can you tell me what DSLR means, and what it does? Thanks.

[CarpeyBiggs]

SLR means single lens reflex. The "D" just means "digital."

Basically, it is how the camera and operator interact. Light enters the lens, hits a mirror that reflects the image into a prism that the operator can view the image on (not a digital viewfinder, like other digital cameras). When the shutter is tripped, the mirror moves out of the way of the sensor, the shutter opens, and the image is exposed, and then the mirror flips back down again.

This type of system allows cameras to have many fancy features, like through-the-lens metering, enhanced focusing capabilities, ability to compose images and focus manually, removeable lenses, etc...

[waltny]

I don't think I've been happy with any Sony electronics that I've purchased in the past 10 years. I've been through a camera, a laptop, and several other small household electronics, and every time I've felt like it's been overpriced, under engineered, and flimsy (especially the laptop). I will never buy another Sony product again - especially if it uses their horrible batteries.


Sony makes all the sensors for Nikon as well... :haha:

Not anymore....

[waltny]

User error, Alex? :haha:
Ahhh, go easy :mrgreen: Not everybody can manipulate these things :haha:

Na, Dan has all the right to give me $hit. He almost saw a dead russian that one day up in the mountains :lol8:

And ya, I really don't get the whole manual photography. I've gone out with Dan a couple of times now and he just looks at the damn mountain and knows that it's a F22, ISO200, 1/64 shutter speed with exp compensation of +3 with flash off......I look at it and see an "Auto" setting :eek2: :lol8:

So that's why I tried to find the most dumbed down dSLR I could.... d40 came pretty close. Also, the whole thing about the motor for the lenses, that's only if you use older lenses or some odd ones with no motor on them (as I was told). Most normal Nikon lenses would have a motor on it. Isn't that right Dan?

I have to say if that is all it takes to be a pro, Im there..... :cool2:

The lack of the autofocus drive can cause issues with higher end nikon lens, other than that you should be good.


Anyhow, I have experience with the XTi and D40X(had a buddy that bought the XTi and he ended up taking it back for the 40X). I really didnt care for how the XTi was set up(menu and button placement) and didnt think it fit my hands. I got to say that the D40X is simply got to be the most power little DSLR on the market at 10+MP. I was able to pick it up, go over the menu for a min and shoot in manual. Sometimes it can be testy when you want it to do something the processor deems not in your best interest, but whatever. The focal points can only be selected in PASM modes, a pain if you should in auto or programed modes. I think the shutter response and color was a bit better with the 40X as opposed to the XTi, but that may be my Nikon bias coming through.

Anyhow as the others have stated either will meet your needs and I would say dont skimp on price now to have to buy another one later. Ive been saving up for my D200(hoping to catch it on a price drop when the 300 and 3 come out) as I feel I would be selling myself short with the D40X and D80. Keep an eye out on KSL for good deals.

Lastly most shots come down to light and composition, as Im sure others will agree. Photoshop helps, but only when you know what your going to have to compensate for later when your shooting.