Seeking Sandthrax Beta [Archive] - Bogley Outdoor Community

10-11-2007, 08:44 AM

Hey there,

On the same weekend that I'm bringing a bunch of folks out to the
North Wash area, a friend and I are planning on attempting Sandthrax
canyon. Was looking to see if anyone who has gone through it would
share any beta they thought was relevant and helpful.

Currently planning on going as light as possible, with a rim team for
emergency purposes (with radios; that I've been told may or may not
work. Whistles used as backup communication.) What I've been told is
that the highest rap is 30'. I was planning on bringing a 40' 8mm,
and a 50' 6mm pull. I was told the crux could be protected with a 5
and two 6 cams. Not wanting to carry that much weight/bulk, could we
afford some protection carrying a 3 and a 4 big brother instead?
Other recommendations?

Thanks!
A.J.

Iceaxe

10-11-2007, 08:53 AM

Sandthrax Canyon
http://climb-utah.com/Powell/sandthrax.htm

This is the gear list from my Sandthrax Webpage....

In addition to your standard technical gear the following items are recommended for defeating the crux of the route. Two #5 camlots, two #6 camlots and one #4 Big Bro. This should allow you to climb or aid the crux. This is a minimum suggested rack.

Now blow the dust off your wallet and sign up. :haha:

:2thumbs:

nat

10-11-2007, 06:02 PM

Hey there,

Currently planning on going as light as possible, with a rim team for
emergency purposes (with radios; that I've been told may or may not
work. Whistles used as backup communication.) What I've been told is
that the highest rap is 30'. I was planning on bringing a 40' 8mm,
and a 50' 6mm pull. I was told the crux could be protected with a 5
and two 6 cams. Not wanting to carry that much weight/bulk, could we
afford some protection carrying a 3 and a 4 big brother instead?
Other recommendations?

Thanks!
A.J.

If you are going to free climb it, or mostly free climb it as a conventional lead, I would bring the equivalent of a 5" cam for anchoring the belay (something to fit a 4-5in crack) and then 2 6" cams or equivalent size big bro's (for 5-6 in crack). If you have to aid the whole crux, then Shane's suggested rack would do. That is, at least one piece for bigger than 6". The wider part at the top is a bit easier.

10-13-2007, 07:51 PM

Thanks for the info Shane and Nat!

Shane, had your info from several friends, but thought it seemed overkill. (No offense.) Wanted to get the opinions of some that might have done it recently...

Nat, plan on free climbing it for as long as I feel comfortable. Won't know how far that is until I get there though.... ;)

Iceaxe

10-13-2007, 08:08 PM

ajroadtrips

10-13-2007, 09:19 PM

With my suggested rack you should be able to aid the crux. So yeah.... it's over kill if you have the skill to climb it.

Also a "woodie" might be helpful and eliminate the body chokes I've seen some use. A woodie is just a 2"x2"x2'-0" wood dowel that you can wedge above the crux and use to anchor a rope.

You ever actually done it Shane? Gotta know the reliability of the beta before I'd trust it... :naughty:

AJ, I did it with Nat.We used a #3 BigBro near the bottom, then cams above. I know a BB is nice if you need to end up using it as a foot hold... Not that I am guilty of that... Yeah right!

My limited experience with other off-width climbing in the desert is that you may be best off using a #6 or #5 and slide it up as you go above you. Placing, then passing gear in an off-width can be a huge pain.

Good luck on freeing it! No way I could free it back when we did it. I'd like to get back and give it a go now though, since I've been climbing more these days.

Iceaxe

10-14-2007, 10:20 AM

You ever actually done it Shane? Gotta know the reliability of the beta before I'd trust it...

Just curious Ryan.... Why do you persist in trying to be an ass?

But ya.... I've done it.

Now I have a question for you Ryan..... do you ever do anything useful for the canyoneering community or do you just like to sit back and toss turd bombs? I know it just kills you that your not a major somebody. If you really want to be a somebody how about you do something useful or positive?

:cool2:

ajroadtrips

10-14-2007, 10:40 AM

You ever actually done it Shane? Gotta know the reliability of the beta before I'd trust it...

Just curious Ryan.... Why do you persist in trying to be an ass?

But ya.... I've done it.

Congrats. Last I heard you had not.

I am insistent on knowing if information given is first hand or not, because once it is second hand, it looses quality quickly. I asked recently about Endless Eden (and got no response) because I would like to do it, but want to get information from someone who has done it first hand. (and know when they did it so I have an idea if the conditions are current or several years old, and at what lake level they did it)

I have had several experiences where someone gave me beta second hand from a friend, and it turned out wrong or incomplete. Is there an issue with saying whether your information is first hand or not?

I am trying to make sure if I am heading somewhere I have good info, or at least know it's not first hand so I can hunt down other sources.

Cheers.

Iceaxe

10-14-2007, 01:14 PM

Congrats. Last I heard you had not.

I didn't know we were supposed to clear our trips through you. I'm sure this will come as a big surprise to you but there is a lot you haven't heard.

I asked recently about Endless Eden (and got no response)

I did a quick search and can find no record of you requesting Eden beta on uutah. Maybe that was your mistake. Or perhaps no one shared beta with you because you have a bad reputation for being a taker and not a giver..... it's a two way street. Beta is a gift, not a right.

As for the rest I guess that's a personal hang up you'll have to deal with. I've received poor first hand beta and outstanding second hand beta. More important to me is who supplied the beta and any recommendations or comments that accompany the beta. But again, I guess that's a personal issue everyone must deal with in their own way. I suggest all beta be taken with a grain of salt.

:soapbox:

CarpeyBiggs

10-14-2007, 01:39 PM

Beta is a gift? Does that mean we get free CoF memberships now? Great news! Thanks Shane. :2thumbs:

Gift: (noun)
1. something given voluntarily without payment in return, as to show favor toward someone, honor an occasion, or make a gesture of assistance; present.
2. the act of giving.
3. something bestowed or acquired without any particular effort by the recipient or without its being earned:

stefan

10-14-2007, 04:59 PM

:toofunny:

oh sh!t, i almost fell off my chair. i know it's out of context, but was a good laugh.

upon glancing at climb-utah i just noticed, shane, you've upped it to $30 per year. just exactly what guidebooks are you comparing to? probably should just scrap that phrase, no?

stefan

10-14-2007, 05:49 PM

shaggy125

10-14-2007, 07:02 PM

So I am confused now :ne_nau: I'm not trying to be a prick, I promise this is just and honest question. I just looked at that list Stefan posted, remembering reading it in 2005 and oooh'ing and ahhh'ing at all the canyons Shane listed that I hadn't heard of. Thought it would be fun to read it again and see how many I now know about and have done... but I scratched my head when I read that Shane listed Tierdrop? In Feb. of 2007 I went with Shane and a bunch of uutah'ers to go looking for Tierdrop. You had received a tip as to where you thought it was and we wandered around along the top of the mesa for a while searching for what we had seen in photos and a possible anchor. We finally found it and you soon put it on your site... so if you did it in 2005 why did you not know where it was in 2007? Is there a different Tierdrop Canyon you did in 2005 that I don't know about? Just curious :ne_nau:

Eric

CarpeyBiggs

10-14-2007, 07:21 PM

upon glancing at climb-utah i just noticed, shane, you've upped it to $30 per year. just exactly what guidebooks are you comparing to? probably should just scrap that phrase, no?

Hmm... That's a bummer. $30 to renew next year. Can you just take the money I donated to fantasy football and call it even? :haha:

stefan

10-14-2007, 08:39 PM

but I scratched my head when I read that Shane listed Tierdrop?

shane should answer of course.

... but i have noticed that the photo he posted on that page (called tierdrop) is what desert highlights refers to as krill canyon.

Iceaxe

10-14-2007, 09:00 PM

Shaggy, when I did Teirdrop with you it was the first time I had ever done the route.... the confusion comes from a route known as Krill (aka: Blimp Hanger). For a long time we thought Krill was Teirdrop and called it such.

I believe I pointed out Krill to you during our trip, it's near Lomation.

:nod:

As for the rest of you retards..... the best gifts cost :lol8:

The stuff I post here is a freebie :2thumbs:

Iceaxe

10-14-2007, 09:07 PM

Hmm... That's a bummer. $30 to renew next year.

Renewals are $20..... Initial fees went up and renewals are down.

Once you join the dark side we don't want ya jumping ship.

:five:

shaggy125

10-14-2007, 09:08 PM

Ahhh... ok, was that the one you called "Belly of the Whale," something like that? Marc wanted to do it but you said Lomation was better? Makes sense now. Thanks.

Eric.

CarpeyBiggs

10-14-2007, 09:11 PM

As for the rest of you retards..... the best gifts cost :lol8:

The stuff I post here is a freebie :2thumbs:

Yeah, when it comes to your gifts, we know we have to pay. I guess we are retards for paying for it... Does that make us "givers" or "takers?" And since you are taking from our pocket, does that make you a "giver" or a "taker?"

I am curious about Eden though. Why you giving that one away out of the kindness of your heart? That would make a nice addition to your little website, yet you threw that beta around ever so casually. Perhaps even worth the $5 increase in annual cost...

CarpeyBiggs

10-14-2007, 09:12 PM

Renewals are $20..... Initial fees went up and renewals are down.

Once you join the dark side we don't want ya jumping ship.

:five:

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.

Iceaxe

10-14-2007, 09:22 PM

I am curious about Eden though. Why you giving that one away out of the kindness of your heart? That would make a nice addition to your little website, yet you threw that beta around ever so casually. Perhaps even worth the $5 increase in annual cost...

Lots of reasons I guess..... biggest is goofball asked and he has provided a great deal to this forum.... Maybe hoping deep down in my heart that others will share more stuff...

Not to be a smartass but the best answer I can really give is "I felt like it."

:cool2:

Iceaxe

10-14-2007, 09:25 PM

was that the one you called "Belly of the Whale," something like that?

Krill is Blimp Hanger is Belly of the Whale..... also has a few more names I can't remember off the top of my head.

Krill
Blimp Hanger
Belly of the Whale
http://uutah.com/forum/files/teirdrop.jpg

CarpeyBiggs

10-15-2007, 07:05 PM

Man, that old thread is hilarious to read through. I never knew some of you were actually "n00bies." Yet Rock still had it out for stinkin' Steve Allen, even then. Too funny.

Eric, you had a monster year for your first year. Heaps so early? That's like losing your virginity with the hottest girl you've ever seen, then having to brown bag the rest of your career. (I'm still yet to do it...)

And Rock hadn't done any of the Moab "pseudo-slots" yet. Even Kyrell is acting like beta should be kept secret with the Lomatium taunting.

Damn, I hate being two years late to the party...

shaggy125

10-15-2007, 07:37 PM

Eric, you had a monster year for your first year. Heaps so early? That's like losing your virginity with the hottest girl you've ever seen, then having to brown bag the rest of your career. (I'm still yet to do it...)

Yea I had a monster year then got swamped with school, but my time will come again soon enough, I keep saying I'm almost done, but yet it seems like it never ends! I will be done one of these days though.

First canyon ever was Keyhole, then Spry, then after that it was like I kept getting thrown into situations that put me in stuff like Choprock (only my 4th canyon ever) soon after Imlay and then before long Heaps. I really didn't plan on doing them all so quick, it just sort of happened that way. I'll tell you what though, doing all that will make you either run away, or have you hooked for life (the latter happened to me of course). Sure I might of lost my virginity in Heaps, but those "brown baggers" really ain't too shabby either. I did Choprock again and it was better the second time, since I didn't really appreciate what an amazing canyon it really is, since I didn't have a lot to compare it to the first time. After doing a lot more canyons, Chop is now pretty much tied with Heaps as my favorite all time. I need to do Heaps again now so I can appreciate it more. Maybe we should plan on it this spring? Since you haven't done it yet?

Eric.

10-29-2007, 08:21 AM

Coming back to the original topic, just wanted to say thanks to those who provided beta and suggestions. We ended up both being able to make all the moves, but was happy to have a rope for a safety line in a couple of places. For the crux we used an old camalot C3 size 5 and a new camalot C4 size 6 for the first person, and added big bro size 4 after the first person was up.

Take care,
A.J.

Iceaxe

10-29-2007, 08:59 AM

Thanks for the update AJ :2thumbs:

How long did it take you? Find any water? Any pics?

:popcorn:

Brian in SLC

10-29-2007, 09:12 AM

For the crux we used an old camalot C3 size 5 and a new camalot C4 size 6 for the first person, and added big bro size 4 after the first person was up.

Hmmm...probably not a size 5 "C3", which are the newer very small cams with only 3 cam lobes.

A green number 5 Camalot, pre-C4 methinks.

Edit to add: I think BD ditched the "C4" moniker. Probably something to do with 5.10 having used it already (C4 is their sticky shoe rubber). On the BD website, they refer to them as "New Camalots" and "Old Camalots".

Did you guys aid or free climb the moves? Curious if its been properly free climbed yet (ie led on site or red pointed). Sounds like maybe?

Wild stuff.

-Brian in SLC

10-29-2007, 02:34 PM

Shane,

Took us 5.5 hours, but we could have easily shaved a lot of time. Likely an hour and a half just from our photos, and retrieving one dropped prussik line. Not to mention time we could have shaved if we were actually trying to go fast. Not knowing what was in store, we were saving as much energy as we could.

There was some water at the bottom of some of the silos, and in the dark section, but nothing you had to go through. Again, if you made the moves to get there, you could likely make the moves to get over the water.

Pics and trip report will follow later, but likely it will be a bit as I'm still around 4 months behind on TR's and pics right now...

10-29-2007, 02:44 PM

Brian,

You are correct, I had c3's in my head because I owned some; and just thought they were all the old ones.

Yes, it was a "Pre-C4" large green size 5 cam, and a newer C4 size 6 cam.

Yes, we both free climbed it; led on-sight and redpoint. No rests, no aid, first try. I doubt we were the first though, as there are plenty of better climbers/canyoneers than us out there, and I know spiderman and Stevie B both went before us as examples of two.

A little more detail: We both free climbed the crux. Right foot on south wall, left foot on north wall, back to the opening. Stem up until left foot is solid on a small ripple on the wall. First person (Ben) set an old green Camalot size 5, and a Camalot C4 size 6 for protection on the way up, and then dyno'ed across into a body wedge. Grunted up a little more to an easier traverse section; and then set a Big bro #4 for additional protection. I then followed up, removing the cams. Near the bro, I dyno'ed across into a body wedge, and then removed the bro. Grunted up a little, and traversed across.

hank moon

10-29-2007, 02:44 PM

Curious if its been properly free climbed yet (ie led on site or red pointed). Sounds like maybe?

Steve Brezofrik free-climbed it last April. Prior to that, Steve Jackson soloed it with one point of sketchy aid (pack toss mid-airy-stem) at the crux.

hank moon

10-29-2007, 02:46 PM

There was some water at the bottom of some of the silos, and in the dark section

did you actually *see* water, or only hear exfoliation bloops below?

10-29-2007, 02:52 PM

Heard water midway through canyon; chimneyed over water in dark section, and saw water in chimney section over bombay with silo after the dark and subway section.

Brian in SLC

10-29-2007, 03:12 PM

Yes, we both free climbed it; led on-sight and redpoint. No rests, no aid, first try. I doubt we were the first though, as there are plenty of better climbers/canyoneers than us out there, and I know spiderman and Stevie B both went before us as examples of two.

A little more detail: We both free climbed the crux. Right foot on south wall, left foot on north wall, back to the opening. Stem up until left foot is solid on a small ripple on the wall. First person (Ben) set an old green Camalot size 5, and a Camalot C4 size 6 for protection on the way up, and then dyno'ed across into a body wedge. Grunted up a little more to an easier traverse section; and then set a Big bro #4 for additional protection. I then followed up, removing the cams. Near the bro, I dyno'ed across into a body wedge, and then removed the bro. Grunted up a little, and traversed across.

Someone who follows on a TR doesn't "redpoint" per se, methinks. Kudos on the clean follow, though.

I thought the spiderman guy pulled on gear, or his pack, or some such? Has done it since his solo, and still pulled on gear?

As a free climb, what do you think the YDS rating is? I think Stevie B or someone thought 5.11c?

Kinda curious. If folks think its that hard an offwidth, any chance they'd list some of the hard offwidths they've done as a comparison? You know, like what they used as a warm up before sending Lucille at Vedauwoo?

I can't imagine doing, much less accurately rating, an offwidth that was that hard. Crazy!

Hard thing for me to even get a feel for. Dang, every time I do Crescent Crack in LCC, I think it gets harder and harder. And that darn thing is only 5.7...

No chicken wings? No hand stacks? No "Leavitt-ation"? Anyone tried the overhanging offwidth in the Momentum climbing gym in south Salt Lake?

Its definately a technique I'd like to hone better, to be sure.

-Brian in SLC

hank moon

10-29-2007, 03:31 PM

nat

10-29-2007, 06:31 PM

Kinda curious. If folks think its that hard an offwidth, any chance they'd list some of the hard offwidths they've done as a comparison?

Brian, no-one has done it as an offwidth AFAIK. Stemming between the back wall and the face left of the crack is what most have been doing. Steve-B stayed high through the crux area and bypassed the climb.

When Jeff, Ryan and I did it, we did it as an offwidth, however, I led it and didn't entirely free it (pulled on a cam for the first move or two). Jeff did follow it free, and reported around 5.10+. I have done a number of offwidths in Yosemite around 25-30 years ago: Mental Block 5.10C, Peter Left 5.10B, Jam Session 5.10D, Reed's Left 5.10A, Galen's Crack 5.10D, and Generator Crack 5.10B. Since I didn't do it completely free, and since I am 50 years old, compared to being in the 20's when I did the above routes, it's a little hard to compare, but I wwould guess that as a conventional right side in offwidth it would be about 5.10C/D.

hank moon

10-29-2007, 06:42 PM

Jeff did follow it free, and reported around 5.10+.

Good to know - thanks. Tensioned belay? Also, what was your belay anchor?

nat

10-29-2007, 06:47 PM

Jeff did follow it free, and reported around 5.10+.

Good to know - thanks. Tensioned belay? Also, what was your belay anchor?

No, Jeff did it without tension. He did some hand/fist stacks. No belay anchor; I was just wedged in at the top, belaying thru an ATC on my harness.

hank moon

10-29-2007, 06:53 PM

nat

10-29-2007, 07:11 PM

No, Jeff did it without tension. He did some hand/fist stacks. No belay anchor; I was just wedged in at the top, belaying thru an ATC on my harness.

Yeah! Good to hear someone has done that thing OW-style. Makes me want to put on a neck brace and try it...

So the belay anchor was you...I was thinking a person-anchor would not want a lot of slack in the rope, but a climber falling out of the OW might not produce much shock force given the scrapiness...blahblahblah

Hey, did you guys take any pix?

Yeah, I think it would have been easy to hold a fall. Sorry, no pix. If you are interested in going back there, I am interested. I am especially interested in trying it the wide stemming way that seems to be popular. To be honest, I am a little skeptical that it is 5.11C that way, but who knows? But I would also like to try it again as an offwidth. Could run laps on it!

10-29-2007, 08:33 PM

Someone who follows on a TR doesn't "redpoint" per se, methinks. Kudos on the clean follow, though.

I'm not hip on all the new lingo. (It was called free-climbing when you didn't use a rope; now it's free-soloing, etc.) I just like to explore, climb, etc. Whatever you want to call it, then call it that. Both of us climbed up, using a rope and cams/bro for protection, no aid, first try, no falls.

I thought the spiderman guy pulled on gear, or his pack, or some such? Has done it since his solo, and still pulled on gear?

As a free climb, what do you think the YDS rating is? I think Stevie B or someone thought 5.11c?

Didn't do the offwidth, so can't comment. It looked like a pain though. I'd rather aid climb it than free climb the OW. As for the stem, it was challenging; and especially the pull over/dyno. Very committing. I'd gather around a 5.10 rating for that.

Kinda curious. If folks think its that hard an offwidth, any chance they'd list some of the hard offwidths they've done as a comparison? You know, like what they used as a warm up before sending Lucille at Vedauwoo?

I can't imagine doing, much less accurately rating, an offwidth that was that hard. Crazy!

Hard thing for me to even get a feel for. Dang, every time I do Crescent Crack in LCC, I think it gets harder and harder. And that darn thing is only 5.7...

No chicken wings? No hand stacks? No "Leavitt-ation"? Anyone tried the overhanging offwidth in the Momentum climbing gym in south Salt Lake?

Its definately a technique I'd like to hone better, to be sure.

-Brian in SLC

I've done some off-widths in Yosemite; up to 5.9 or maybe 5.10 range (spent over four months climbing there, and did a lot in the 5.9 to 5.12 range), but since I didn't climb the OW, can't comment.

ratagonia

10-29-2007, 09:31 PM

Brian in SLC

10-30-2007, 08:09 AM

I'm not hip on all the new lingo. (It was called free-climbing when you didn't use a rope; now it's free-soloing, etc.) I just like to explore, climb, etc. Whatever you want to call it, then call it that. Both of us climbed up, using a rope and cams/bro for protection, no aid, first try, no falls.

Naw, that "free climbing" definition has been around for years. Seem like I have some video of Barber in England in the 70's and they make the distinction between the two then, and, much prior to that methinks. Media seems to get it wrong upon occasion.

When nuts became popular in England, there were some in the old guard who felt like using them was cheating, 'cause you could get protection with a nut above your head in some places...ala toprope on lead...too funny...

And, wasn't an "onsight" per se, if you asked for beta and used beta or any prior knowledge of the route prior to ascending. Would have been a "flash" ascent by the leader.

Climbing has more rules than golf...

Nat, good info. That's the comparison I was kinda looking for.

Doesn't surprise me that a Stevie B type can bypass and stem past the OW, though. Amazing what folks can do and climb. Especially with good core and high contact strength. Darn kids.

Hmmm....amazing how many folks are doing this route...its become quite the trade route.

-Brian in SLC

Iceaxe

10-30-2007, 08:22 AM

Hmmm....amazing how many folks are doing this route...its become quite the trade route.

FWIW: I'm finding this thread extremely interesting. One of the topics of conversation as we sat freezing our butts off in the canyon during our first attempt was how one day folks would be doing laps in the canyon and laughing about how we became trapped.

The prediction at the time was the route would first become a test piece and eventually a trade route as skills and knowledge improved.

Climbing has more rules than golf...

Aint't that the truth.... and they are all unwritten....

:lol8:

Brian in SLC

10-30-2007, 08:24 AM

When Jeff, Ryan and I did it, we did it as an offwidth, however, I led it and didn't entirely free it (pulled on a cam for the first move or two). Jeff did follow it free, and reported around 5.10+.

Yeah, but. Jeff is one of them talented-types. Can he accurately rate something as easy as 5.10+ ?
A serious question. I know he was, many years ago, ticking off the 5.13s - thus the question.
But then again, few people do enough off-widths to really be able to accurately rate them. Even for the talented boys, they seem to be rated 5.hard. or in Yosemite, 5.9.

Some good points... My guess is most 5.13 climbers who have been climbing awhile could accurately rate a climb at 5.10. Look at some of the local guys here, for instance, who still put up routes at both ends of the grades.

But, I'd think you'd have to have a bit of time in the OW saddle to accurately rate an OW climb. And, there seems to be a cadre of folks who routinely do and track OW climbs and their ratings. Look how many folks have been on Trench Warfare for instance, or, Belly Full of Bad Berries (best route name!) here in Utah. There are entire threads on Utah climbing websites about "classic" offwidths (an oxymoron for some of us if there ever was one). Folks seek them out.

Man, its a technique I'd like to get better at...but not trial by fire...

-Brian in SLC

Brian in SLC

10-30-2007, 08:33 AM

I'm finding this thread extremely interesting. One of the topics of conversation as we sat freezing our butts off in the canyon during our first attempt was how one day folks would be doing laps in the canyon and laughing about how we became trapped.
The prediction at the time was the route would first become a test piece and eventually a trade route as skills and knowledge improved.

Climbing has more rules than golf...
Aint't that the truth.... and they are all unwritten....

You had some ol' school horsepower with you, for sure. But, probably not optimal gear (ie, huge cams). Highlights the difference between "onsight" and "flash", and why folks make the distinction.

Rules are fairly well written down. Read almost any "how to" type climbing book, and the definitions of onsight, flash, free climbing, etc are all there. And, that stuff is still hotly debated. For instance, some folks think "pink point" isn't valid anymore to describe an ascent. But, IMHO, there's a huge difference between a "pink point" and a "red point" on especially some types of climbs.

Fun stuff...

-Brian in SLC

Iceaxe

10-30-2007, 11:06 AM

You had some ol' school horsepower with you, for sure. But, probably not optimal gear (ie, huge cams).

Gear was certainly lacking in our first attempt.... :lol8:

A little useful info that I have never seen posted before about Sandthrax.... the second documented group to successfully descend the canyon carried 3"x2" sections of wood and a saw. They just sawed the wood to length and wedged it in the crack and built a ladder of wood rungs to climb the crux. Last man up pulled out the wood rungs.

This second group got the idea from Chris and Hank who used pre-cut "woodies" to do the first documented successful descent. The woodies were 2"x2" by various lengths of pre-cut wood they wedged in the crack. Hank can probably give more details on their woodies.

:popcorn: