touring setups

[Brian in SLC]

I dunno, that's a lot of schlepping...and I'm an AT guy. Now admittedly I could do more to stay in shape than sit here typing this reply (my fingers are really buff! :haha: ), but even on an ultralight AT kit at Alta on Saturday (G3 Reverends, Silvretta Pures and Garmont Adrenalins) I was whooped even after what little we did. OK, OK...it's not midseason, but still...

That ain't ultralight by today's standards...!

I've, uhh, gone a tad over to the dark side m'self. Tele'd for years (which was never really tele anyhow, once I figured out how to parallel on the tele gear). Last spring, during the ski sales, I sprang for the dynafit binding/Scarpa F1 rig. Lighter than my tele rig for sure. Only got a couple daze on it, so, we'll hopefully be given' 'er a workout soon...

A friend has the dynafit binding on a pair of Goode skis. Unreal how light those are.

http://www.goode.com/skis.htm

Anyhoo, yeah. Hardcorp bunch of backcountry skiers here. I gave up the ski area thing around 12 or so years ago (only way I stay in shape in the winter). Crazy how much vert folks can punch out in a day of ski touring here.

For example, Kings Peak is routinely done in a day by skiers. Even though you can't drive all the way to the summer trailhead. Nutty.

-Brian in SLC

[FirstTracks]

That ain't ultralight by today's standards...!

Very true when compared to Dynafit, I'll admit. I use my kit, however, for a combo of lift served, sidecountry and backcountry, and I've never trusted the Dynafit pins for lift-served abuse. Some wouldn't even consider the Silvretta Pures for lift-served, but I tend to be easy on my gear and thus went with something much lighter than the typical alpine ski/Fritchi combo favored by resort AT skiers. I even have a pair of Pures mounted on a set of 191cm Movement Goliaths (135-108-124), and can't even tweak the bindings with that much torque. I could never get away with that with a set of Dynafits.

[CarpeyBiggs]

You guys have any tips on where to find good AT gear, possibly used, or at least on sale?

What about recommended setups? I've toyed with the idea of getting some skis for awhile now, but I'm just not sure how much I'd get out, and they ain't exactly cheap...

[FirstTracks]

You guys have any tips on where to find good AT gear, possibly used, or at least on sale?

The Black Diamond Fall Gear Sale & Swap is coming up:


The Black Diamond Store is having its annual Fall Gear Sale and Swap - Friday, Saturday and Sunday, Oct 19-21

Sale: Friday, Saturday & Sunday, October 19th through 21st

* Save on all Black Diamond rock and ice climbing gear.
* Preseason savings on all telemark, AT and backcountry ski gear.
* All clothing and outerwear including latest fall/winter styles will be marked down.

Special prices and discounts are good Friday, Saturday and Sunday only!

Swap: Saturday October 20th, 8:00AM - 12:00PM, Parking lot

* Bring your old toys to sell, then come inside for great deals on new gear.
* Swap begins at 8:00AM and ends at Noon.
* No dealers or retailers please

The Black Diamond Store is located @
2092 East 3900 South
Salt Lake City, UT 84124
(801) 278-0233
email: bdstore@bdel.com

[Brian in SLC]

[Very true when compared to Dynafit, I'll admit. I use my kit, however, for a combo of lift served, sidecountry and backcountry, and I've never trusted the Dynafit pins for lift-served abuse. Some wouldn't even consider the Silvretta Pures for lift-served, but I tend to be easy on my gear and thus went with something much lighter than the typical alpine ski/Fritchi combo favored by resort AT skiers. I even have a pair of Pures mounted on a set of 191cm Movement Goliaths (135-108-124), and can't even tweak the bindings with that much torque. I could never get away with that with a set of Dynafits.

Not sure about that. I'd heard not good things about the Pure from a variety of sources. Have you read Lou's review of them on Wild Snow? I'll post it below.

Dynafit is an amazing binding. I haven't totally drank the koolaid yet, but, have so many friends in this binding, with a ton of days and just no problems. Most don't resort ski in them, though.

See the video of Ben in Alaska bridged upside down across the crevasse, toe piece of the Dynafit saving his bacon? Scary.

That McLean uses them on hairy descents says a lot about the binding and its durability and reliability. Hunter? Yikes.

Anyhoo, its all good. I "need" another AT rig for climbing, and, will probably try to find a used pair of Silvretta 500's. Have a set of 300's, but, want to take advantage of the shorter, lighter skis out there now. Sold my 404's and old Silvretta cable binding/skis. I need something that will work with a climbing boot. Crazy how much the sport has changed in the last 10 years or so.

BD swap. Craigslist. KSL. Dynafit bindings go like hotcakes. Geez, I'm even lookin' for another pair (rock ski set up).

Cheers,

-Brian in SLC

www.wildsnow.com

From Lou on Dynafits at resorts:

So, can I use my Dynafit bindings as a resort binding?

Depends on style. My wife uses Dynafit for all her skiing, both on and off resort, about 40 days a year (some "days" being fitness climbs before work). She is very happy with them, never pre-releases, and they seem safe enough. She seldom falls, and is not an aggressive skier. She skis intermediate parallel. But, and it's a big BUT, aggressive resort skiing on the Dynafit is problematic. For starters, hard bump skiing or landing large jumps, as mentioned above, can pop you out of the binding quicker than a champagne cork on a wedding night. What's more, while the Dynafit is durable in comparison with other randonnee bindings, a hard bash to the side of the heel piece can cause a lot more damage to the Dynafit than it would to an alpine binding. In summary, the Dynafit works fine as a resort binding for low-key skiing. Aggressive skiers should not use it at the resort, except for occasional "dial-in" days.

From Lou on the Pure:

Silvretta Pure - Strong Enough?

Like it or not, consumer testing of new products is a fact of life. When the first production model of Silvretta Pure backcountry skiing binding came out a few years ago, it seemed weak but at WildSnow.com world headquarters we gave it the benefit of the doubt, and adopted a wait-and-see attitude. Once real-life North American skiers began to “test” the first Pure of 04/05, breakage problems occurred. Such problems were prevalent enough to warrant various reinforcements that occurred during that same model year and continue to the present.

03/04 model Silvretta Pure is definitely too weak for all but the most moderate touring and we do not recommend. New models look similar but are improved, though still not recommended by us for hard use. Shop used market with care.

By 06/07 the binding had morphed to three models (see details via menu to left), with small improvements in strength and overall the same design.
Since 04/05 to the present I’ve continued to receive reports of broken Pures, witnessed several breakage events in person, and had an overall sense that the Pure was not as strong as other recent model AT bindings, nor as forgiving of user error such as mis-adjustment of length or height of toe wings.

Before I write more about Pure, be it known that all AT bindings break. Dynafit heel units explode, Freerides get smashed, and Naxos snap. Ski touring bindings are always a compromise between weight and durability, with the needle shifting from one end of the scale to the other depending on what part of the market bindings are intended for.

But breakage reports I hear about bindings other than Pure are usually associated with high mileage bindings or harsh beater falls. In the case of Pure (through this year’s models) the breakage I witness or hear of appears to occur more in normal use.

So here is my take based on what I’ve heard from reliable sources as well as witnessed in person these past few seasons. These recommendations for all Silvretta Pure models up to and including this season’s models (06/07). No doubt there are exceptions to the following, if that includes you our comments are open for your opinion.

) We do not recommend Pure for larger skiers, especially if the binding will be used for resort skiing or aggressive backcountry skiing.

) We do not recommend the Pure for resort skiing, but if you must, we say you’d need to be of average or lighter weight build, ski un-aggressively, and fall infrequently.

) We do not recommend the Pure for aggressive ski touring, such as climbing steep convoluted terrain. Likewise, we do not recommend the Pure for any sort of bushwhacking.

) We recommend the Pure as a choice for moderate touring when price of binding is an issue, and the user is an average weight conservative skier who falls infrequently.

) In all cases, we only recommend using 06/07 (grey toe wings) or more recent models. We DO NOT recommend any Pure bindings that are pre 06/07 (red toe wings). Beware the used market and ski shop back-stock.

) In all cases, IT IS ESSENTIAL that the height of the toe wings that hold your boot down is adjusted correctly, length of binding is adjusted correctly, and safety DIN is set correctly for your weight, body type and ability (not dialed to the max).

) We do not recommend using any current model Pure with alpine boots or with stiff “freeride” style AT boots.
All models of Pure have received significant improvements for model year 07/08. Consumer testing will commence when those bindings go into distribution, or possibly before. I examined the new models when I was in Europe, and we’re expecting the new models for WildSnow evaluation though we have no idea what the timing will be on that. Once we get samples the first thing I’ll do is report here about any durability improvements or design changes that prevent stress on the binding.

[FirstTracks]

Not sure about that. I'd heard not good things about the Pure from a variety of sources. Have you read Lou's review of them on Wild Snow? I'll post it below.

Yup, I'd seen Lou's comments (but thanks for reposting for the greater good). My two pair are the 06/07 Freeride model, and I should note that I'm 140 lb soaking wet, and also tend to finesse the ski rather than muscle it. As such, I think that I'm the prime candidate to enjoy the lighter weight of the Pure over Fritschis or Naxos. And after a complete season using both pair lift-served, I'm happy to report that they lack the heel lock-down slop that have bedeviled every pair of Fritschis I've skied.

However, as Brian noted, buyer beware. Lou aptly points out, though, that this admonition applies to any AT binding.

[stefan]

You guys have any tips on where to find good AT gear, possibly used, or at least on sale?

What about recommended setups? I've toyed with the idea of getting some skis for awhile now, but I'm just not sure how much I'd get out, and they ain't exactly cheap...

no not cheap at all. i don't exactly have the cashish for lots of gear either (hopefully will at some point).

i also have major boot fitting issues and have avoided dynafit for the time being (but would like to try to make it work in the near future).

i spend part time in b/c and part time in resort and proximate b/c. (number of days varies from year to year.)

my current setup is bd miras/ethics (skis)/fritschi freeride (bindings) + dale boots.

it's not the lightest setup, but it's reasonably light for touring all day and reasonably burly for the wear and tear you get at a resort.

dale boots are custom made boots manufactured in salt lake. they have a heat fit liner. they appear as downhill boots, but are smaller and much lighter weight and have a walk mode that works okay for touring. the primary reason i got them is fit. however, historically, they're pretty cool.