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CarpeyBiggs
08-20-2007, 04:30 PM
:hail2thechief: Canon :eek2:

Wow. There are some new cameras coming out from Canon in time for Christmas that will be very impressive. 40D is slated, checking in with 6.5 fps, a new sensor, dust removal, customized image curves for in camera, wifi transmission, weatherproofing, live view, improved AF sensitivity etc... The list goes on.

All for list of $1299. This is a substantial improvement in technology for such an affordable camera.

Also, the G9 is announced, which will be one of the most sophisticated point and shoot cameras around, including RAW! Will be interesting to see how the high ISO noise makes out though...

Anyways, interesting developments, fo' sho'.

Links:

Canon 40D (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0708/07082010canoneos40d.asp)

Canon G9 (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0708/07082005canong9.asp)

JP
08-20-2007, 05:24 PM
Bought time, they were a little lagging.

Alex
08-20-2007, 05:37 PM
I don't see where the release date is?

CarpeyBiggs
08-20-2007, 05:41 PM
Bought time, they were a little lagging.

Not really... But yeah, it's a nice release.

CarpeyBiggs
08-20-2007, 05:41 PM
I don't see where the release date is?

I think it is Oct 15.

JP
08-20-2007, 05:46 PM
Bought time, they were a little lagging.

Not really... But yeah, it's a nice release.
When was the 30 launched?

CarpeyBiggs
08-20-2007, 05:49 PM
When was the 30 launched?

18 months ago, the typical product cycle for Canon's gear. 5D and 1Ds have been longer, simply because there is nothing that competes with them.

BTW, the 1DsIII was announced too, but since it will be $8,000, I figured most of us weren't in the market...

stefan
08-20-2007, 06:12 PM
wifi transmission

a wah?

CarpeyBiggs
08-20-2007, 06:20 PM
wifi transmission

a wah?

Yeah man, it has a grip that will allow you to wirelessly transmit images to another computer. Especially useful for sports guys, who need to turn images super quick. Or for event shooters who are trying to turn images quick.

stefan
08-20-2007, 06:24 PM
wifi transmission

a wah?

Yeah man, it has a grip that will allow you to wirelessly transmit images to another computer. Especially useful for sports guys, who need to turn images super quick. Or for event shooters who are trying to turn images quick.

that's purdy neat

Alex
08-20-2007, 07:05 PM
Or for porn dudes, who have to make a quick buck.... errm what am I saying :twisted:

jowchie
08-20-2007, 07:40 PM
New nikons should be announced this week as well.. and rumors are circulating that it might be full frame and pricing should be competitive to Canon's 1Ds MKIII

waltny
08-20-2007, 08:15 PM
New nikons should be announced this week as well.. and rumors are circulating that it might be full frame and pricing should be competitive to Canon's 1Ds MKIII

I highly doubt that Nikon will come out with a full frame, that is a canon gimmick. That is all Ill say with out starting a fan boy war. Im hearing rumors of a 80X and 300 and cant wait to hear what the best company has to offer. IM sure Epson and Lexar will follow suit with products to match.

CarpeyBiggs
08-20-2007, 08:21 PM
I highly doubt that Nikon will come out with a full frame, that is a canon gimmick. That is all Ill say with out starting a fan boy war. Im hearing rumors of a 80X and 300 and cant wait to hear what the best company has to offer. IM sure Epson and Lexar will follow suit with products to match.

Too late, already did. Canon gimmick? 'Splain yo'self. Sounds like you've been reading a little too much Ken Rockwell...

waltny
08-20-2007, 09:14 PM
I highly doubt that Nikon will come out with a full frame, that is a canon gimmick. That is all Ill say with out starting a fan boy war. Im hearing rumors of a 80X and 300 and cant wait to hear what the best company has to offer. IM sure Epson and Lexar will follow suit with products to match.

Too late, already did. Canon gimmick? 'Splain yo'self. Sounds like you've been reading a little too much Ken Rockwell...

Ill believe it when I see the offical release of which there is none as of today. There appears to be rumors running rampant though that it is already here.

As for the full frame its all about the light to sensor angle, here is one of the better explainations on it....


http://www.cleanimages.com/DDBlog-ShouldNikonMakeA35mmSizedSensor.asp

CarpeyBiggs
08-20-2007, 09:56 PM
Ah my friend, all those problems are mitigated by well built lenses. Sure, a crappy lens looks better on a small sensor, because it is only using the sweetest part of the image circle. But if you have a lens that creates a larger image circle, and is sharper through the whole sensor, than the sensor is capable of higher resolution than a small one. You do realize that most lenses are designed to cover a full 36mm sensor? Are you suggesting that medium format and large format cameras are insufficient?

Simply stated, the pros to a larger sensor outweighs the cons, when all other factors are held to similar standards. If a lens is engineered to resolve a high amount of lines of resolution over a large image circle, then the bigger the area the light is recorded to, the higher the overall resolution (i.e. large format systems).

All other advantages to a small sensor are moot. If a full sized 36mm sensor was designed with the same pixel pitch as a DX sized sensor, you could simply crop the full size image to the 1.5x factor of the smaller sensor, and achieve the same effect (i.e. apparent angle of view). So why wouldn't you want a larger sensor? Are you suggesting that medium and large format sensors aren't higher resolution than your DX sized nikon sensor?

Here is a quote from the article you mentioned:

FF Sensor Pros:

* no lens factors
* high resolution
* less high ISO noise

FF Sensor Cons:

* corner image softness
* light falloff
* less depth of field
* more edge chromatic aberration
* higher cost


All of the "cons" are results of Lens defects and aberrations, and have nothing to do with the sensor. Larger cost is indeed true, simply because the yields of silicon wafers favor smaller chips. Which is why Nikon can't afford to create a full frame chip, they don't manufacture their own sensors.

But the pros are great. Higher resolution, less noise, and lenses operate as they were designed. Sounds great to me!

Furthermore:

DX sized sensor Pros:

* increased depth of field
* higher resolution
* no light falloff
* no corner image softness
* less edge chromatic aberration
* 1.5x lens factor (if you shoot a lot of telephoto)
* lower cost

DX sized sensor Cons:

* increased high ISO noise
* 1.5x lens factor (if you shoot a lot of wide angle)


Depth of field is not "increased" with a DX sized sensor. It is a matter of subject distance and focal length. You are simply cropping the image circle the lens casts. This is actually a bad thing if you are trying to separate your background from your subject (i.e. sports shooters). The resolution is not higher for a DX sensor, unless you are talking pixel pitch. Which isn't necessarily a good thing. The most important thing is signal to noise ratio, i.e. quality of the signal recorded per pixel. Small pixel pitches negatively affect S/N ratio. Again, the only other "pros" are based on lenses defects. If you have good lenses, those are non-issues.

CarpeyBiggs
08-20-2007, 10:14 PM
If you really want to learn why full 36mm sensors are ideal, you can read the Canon white paper, which contains alot of well presented information. Sure, it is put out by Canon, but the information is accurate.

http://www.robgalbraith.com/public_files/Canon_Full-Frame_CMOS_White_Paper.pdf

Win
08-21-2007, 05:45 AM
I was checking out the 40D and it seems to be a real nice camera. I've been toying with getting a second body and this may be near perfect. No hurry, though, it looks like Canons last entry has some early issues, the 1DsMarkIII.

Win

JP
08-21-2007, 06:25 AM
Canon gimmick? 'Splain yo'self. Sounds like you've been reading a little too much Ken Rockwell...
Ahh, so you're a Canon fanatic and nothing else matches up to them, ehh :haha:
I believe it was October two years ago they released the 30D.

CarpeyBiggs
08-21-2007, 07:06 AM
Canon gimmick? 'Splain yo'self. Sounds like you've been reading a little too much Ken Rockwell...
Ahh, so you're a Canon fanatic and nothing else matches up to them, ehh :haha:
I believe it was October two years ago they released the 30D.

First off, no need to put words in my mouth JP. I can speak for myself.

Secondly, the 30D was announced Feb of last year, 18 months ago.

Lastly, the main point of anything I had to say is that a full frame sensor almost always trumps a DX or APS-C sized sensor, regardless of what company your camera is from. Sure, I shoot Canon. Why? No one else makes a full frame sensor right now. I hope Nikon comes out with one, it will drive prices down for everyone, and increase R&D.

As for a complete system, you're right, there is unfortunately no competition right now. I shoot mainly landscapes, and Nikon (or anyone else) has no offerings with a full frame sensor. I also shoot sports on the side. You ever taken a look at who is shooting what at an event? Canon's dominate that market as well. I bet 80 percent of all sports shooters and newspaper dailies are shooting Canon.

Nikon has some great stuff for the "prosumer" market. Mainly the D80 and D200, both of which are probably a better value than Canon's current offerings (Rebel XTi, 30D). I assume the 40D will impact this market significantly, and Nikon will rebut with another great camera themselves. But their high end stuff doesn't even compare. The 5D and 1DsII have no competition, or the 1DmkII, 1DmkIIn or the new 1dmkIII. Nikon simply can't make their own sensors right now, so it isn't cost effective. Trust me, I am one who is hoping Nikon releases a full frame camera very soon. It will be great for the market.

So, Canon fanboy or not, my only point is how is a full frame 36x24 sensor a gimmick? That's just plain nonsense, even for Nikon fans.

gonzo
08-21-2007, 08:24 AM
Bah. Go Holga, and you don't have to worry about any of it. ;)

JP
08-21-2007, 08:36 AM
First off, no need to put words in my mouth JP. I can speak for myself.
No need to get your panties in a bunch attitude boy. :roll: Wasn't putting words in anyones mouth, your bias is plainly obvious :nod:

And will you be upgrading to this 40D?

stefan
08-21-2007, 08:59 AM
very interesting information, dan.

i suppose one's gimmick is another's godsend?

kinda like a $150 bottle of wine ...

CarpeyBiggs
08-21-2007, 09:06 AM
Wasn't putting words in anyones mouth, your bias is plainly obvious :nod:

Your gift of discernment never ceases to amaze... :hail2thechief:

As for the 40D, it would certainly make a nice backup camera, especially for sports, but it doesn't really fit in my lineup right now. The 5D and my backup suit me just fine. Although I imagine this is just a preview of the what the 5D will update to in the future, for which I will probably upgrade.

I may take a peek at the G9 though...

waltny
08-21-2007, 06:50 PM
Well I disagree with most of your antidotical evidence. I also see I was wrong to swell up on the resident board expert, who is educated in the subject, not just a hack like myself. So other than that, I will let my inferior setup do the talking once I scrounge up enough to buy it.


To each their own....

CarpeyBiggs
08-21-2007, 09:04 PM
Well I disagree with most of your antidotical evidence. I also see I was wrong to swell up on the resident board expert, who is educated in the subject, not just a hack like myself. So other than that, I will let my inferior setup do the talking once I scrounge up enough to buy it.
To each their own....

Perhaps I was a little too blunt with my original posts. I wasn't trying to claim one brand is superior to the other, simply correct the fact that a full frame is a "gimmick." There certainly are pros and cons to both. Sorry if it seemed like I exploded. I reread my posts and realized they were a little more forceful than I intended.

Good news is, now almost all SLR cameras are better than their operator... So any camera can produce some pretty impressive stuff. Indeed, to each their own.

I am curious, if you don't mind discussing, why you disagree with the evidence. Feel free expand if you want. I expect JP will keep me in line in the future.... :lol8:

JP
08-22-2007, 07:15 AM
I expect JP will keep me in line in the future.... :lol8:
I like that tag for you "Resident Board Expert" :haha: Keep you in line :lol8: You keep us in line :hail2thechief: :hail2thechief: :hail2thechief: :hail2thechief: :hail2thechief: :haha:

R
08-22-2007, 08:20 AM
You guys might want to wait for this baby...

http://myweb.cableone.net/abbysm/pix/supercam01.jpg

JP
08-22-2007, 08:35 AM
Wow, these things are turning into little computers :haha:

gonzo
08-22-2007, 08:59 AM
I can use that Inspiration button. I'm feeling pretty uninspired lately.

KillEmAll
08-22-2007, 11:30 AM
Richard, too funny! :roflol:

R
08-22-2007, 01:00 PM
Richard, too funny! :roflol:

I'd love to take credit for it, but I got it here...
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=3046

asdf
08-30-2007, 08:54 AM
hey.. I was just offered to buy a used Canon PowerShot S3 IS 6.0mp camera for $150 should I sang it? What do you gurus think?

Alex
08-30-2007, 08:59 AM
I used to have S2 IS and I loved that little camera. I bought it new for about $260, so $150 for the S3 is a great price. I'd recommend it.

It is no comparison to the SLR line of cameras, but it's definitely better than a P&S ones. Plus you have a huge zoom on it, great video clips and manual controls!

CarpeyBiggs
08-30-2007, 09:17 AM
hey.. I was just offered to buy a used Canon PowerShot S3 IS 6.0mp camera for $150 should I sang it? What do you gurus think?

Yeah, that ain't a bad price. It is bigger than typical point and shoots, but it has a massive zoom on it.

gonzo
08-30-2007, 09:30 AM
I have the S3 IS, the zoom is awesome. But, it's a really noisy little bugger when using the auto ISO settings. Anything over 200 is almost unusable.

JP
08-30-2007, 02:30 PM
How about that G9 that will be released soon? $500 for a point and shoot maybe steep for some, but maybe what someone is looking for if they want something that can give them more without stepping into a DSLR. :ne_nau:

Alex
08-30-2007, 07:15 PM
G series were always a little higher step than the S series of cameras. The big difference for the G series is the flash shoe and I think bigger sensor, if I am not mistaken.

S series has a much bigger zoom, rotating LCD and better movie quality.

JP
08-30-2007, 08:40 PM
Here's the specs of the G9

Sensor

JP
08-30-2007, 08:46 PM
Hmmmm, I'm in the market for a new P&S camera :mrgreen: