Bivvy gear

[AJ]

This is a cross post from the canyons group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/message/37833

Since I'm attempting full Imlay and full Heaps next week, trying to get each of them done in a day (separate days), I just went over a lot of this with my team. However, it might help some others:

I taught many summer and winter survival classes in Michigan; and
people have had many opportunities to test how well (or not) they
worked. As the other person pointed out, you still need insulation
from the cold; especially in full-on snowy winter conditions. The
blanket just does well at reflecting body heat back towards you, and
blocking some of the wind. The bivvy bag style is better at
blocking the wind while you are laying down, but if you are already
hypothermic, less heat is being eminated from your extremities, and
you likely will still need other insulation.

Use your pack, rope, wetsuits, etc for insulation under you. It
helps to have dry clothes with you, you can always use the wet ones
underneath for more insulation, or if it's windy, over you for more
insulation (helps with some of the crinkling.) However, until they
dry, that cold is transferred through the blanket; so use at your
discretion...

For those using the trash bags, in winter conditions, pack them with
leaves or similar for insulation in colder temps.

Another survival trick that works really well is to make a small
fire and hold the space blanket around you and the fire (making sure
your back is to the wind). The heat will be reflected toward you;
and will keep you much warmer with just a small fire. The bivvy bag
styles don't work as well for this.

Another trick is to carry one or two of the handwarmers, and use
them under your arm, around your groin, in the small of your back,
etc. It will help warm the blood transferred to/from your core.

Hope that helps with some ideas. The best thing is to give it a try
and see what works for you... As those have mentioned though, the
space blanket is more of a survival tool than a comfort tool...

Take care,
A.J.

=====

A good link from Ryan:
I thought the following was useful with respect to emergency
blackets... It explains in detail how they work and in what
conditions....

http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/FAQ_SpaceBlankets.htm

=====

Terry brought up that you could use a fleece sleeping bag; and my thoughts:

Fleece doesn't compress very well. You will get a better warmth to
weight/size ratio using a lightweight down bag. Another good option is just
to use a bivvy sack with a silk sleeping bag liner. That will work
well for moderately warm temperatures (not full on winter unless you
are really warm blooded, and find some good insulating materials to
use under you.) Both the silk liner and bivvy sack will fit in a
stuff sack which is smaller than a nalgene and around 2-3 pounds.


Hope it helps,
A.J.

[Iceaxe]

Another good option is just to use a bivvy sack with a silk sleeping bag liner. That will work well for moderately warm temperatures

I did that once in Heaps doing a 100 degree daytime June weekend.... and I froze my ass off that night.... never again... not enough loft to trap the heat next to your body was my opinion.

:popcorn:

[mrbrejcha]

Another trick is to carry one or two of the handwarmers, and use
them under your arm, around your groin, in the small of your back,
etc. It will help warm the blood transferred to/from your core.
A.J.

Handwarmers are fantastic, I put them in my drytop sometimes.

For planned bivies I just take a super tiny down bag, bivy sack and a hat. It all packs about the size of a nalgene. My theory being, you'll spend less energy carrying a 2 lb sleeping bag than shivering and being uncomfortable all night, and it will be more fun.

If you bring bivy gear, you will bivy 90% of the time. It's kinda like soloing next to a fixed rope.

For forced bivies:
I've only had one froced bivy in my life, and it SUCKED. I was at about 13,500 feet and it was really windy and below freezing. I had a down coat and the clothes I was wearing (gortex pants and jacket). I rember the thing I wanted that night more than anything was some kind of a blanket. I ended up using my rope as a pad/blanket. At least I had a beer.

After that, I ALWAYS carry an "oh shit" bag which contains at minimum a space blanket, a fire starter, TP, duct tape, cloth tape, hand warmers, the nastiest flavored powerbar, iodine, and a beanie.

A few other heater tricks: If you have the capabilities, boil some water and put it in your nalgene, then snuggle with it.
another trick is kinda nasty but works is to pee in yer water bottle and snuggle with it, that puppy is 98.6 degrees, just make sure it doesn't leak and mark it so you never use it again.

[RedRoxx]

I have had several unplanned nights out. The first when I was about 17 years old and out hunting deer in Missisippi with my boyfriend and his friends. We got separated and I curled up under a tree for the evening. Cold, yessiree, used all the bark, grass etc I could find.
The most memorable recently was a flash flood in Paria narrows years back. Have the flood pics, went thru Buckskin and it started raining heavily. The rains washed a couple of boys hiking in Zion off the trail, one died from the fall. Of course up stream. Yes , I had checked the weather forecast and it was only 20% chance of rain.

Anyhoo, Paria was dry until the flood came down. I climbed out to Bridger Point and bivouaced there overnight. I had a tarp and sleeping bag and snacks. I was dry and reasonably warm. Hiked out next day and talked to ranger. Started to bike back to Jeep. Then had a version of heat illness and ended up hitchhiking. Oh, well, sorry for thread hijack.

I do like the chemical heat warmess, and the pee bottle as we cavers call it can have it's usefullness. Now I carry a Lafuma down about 50 degree bag and Black Diamond Lightsabre bivy for possible and lightweight overnighters.

[montanablur]

I have a North Face Climbers Bivy in my gear case at all times. If there is any chance of getting stuck overnight it gets thrown in the pack. When I worked with the North Face in the early 90's it was the only full Gore Tex bivy sack. While I have yet to have an unexpected bivy in the canyons, mainly because I haven't done that many, at 1lb 8oz. it's not a whole lot to carry.

[mrbrejcha]

[quote="montanablur"]full Gore Tex bivy sackquote]

GoreTex is where it's at for wind and rain, but for innsulation, it's not much. Although it's probably a thousand times better than a space blanket.

I found a picture of the "wake up" of my only forced bivy, I look happy as a pig in poo, it wasn't in a canyon or in utah, but i'm sure it's still worth a look. I did have a beer though!

[montanablur]

Is that actually on rainier?

It looks like the cleft of rocks just west of the Nisqaully Glacier, the last camp before going up the Feuher's Finger... I could be way off base though...

[gonzo]

...another trick is kinda nasty but works is to pee in yer water bottle and snuggle with it, that puppy is 98.6 degrees, just make sure it doesn't leak and mark it so you never use it again.

Isn't that what the yellow Nalgene bottle (http://www.nalgene-outdoor.com/store/detail.aspx?ID=987) is for?

[mrbrejcha]

...another trick is kinda nasty but works is to pee in yer water bottle and snuggle with it, that puppy is 98.6 degrees, just make sure it doesn't leak and mark it so you never use it again.

Isn't that what the yellow Nalgene bottle (http://www.nalgene-outdoor.com/store/detail.aspx?ID=987) is for?

Square Nalgene