ban outdoor smoking in davis county?

[stefan]

Time to ban outdoor smoking?
Friday, June 08, 2007


In Davis County, smokers may just have to stay home. Home may be the only place they can still light up.

The county is considering a ban on smoking in outdoor public places. The ban would cover golf courses, parks, playgrounds, sports fields, swimming pools, amusement parks and other public venues. It would also restrict smoking within 25 feet of automatic teller machines, train stations, bus stops and pay phones.

Violators would be fined $25 for the first offense and $100 for subsequent offenses within two years.

The rule faces no opposition, and likely will go into effect in January 2008. Utah already bans smoking in most indoor public spaces and will ban smoking in bars and private clubs in 2009.

Surprisingly, given that many Utahns eschew smoking as a matter of religious principle, Davis County is not the first place to cook up this idea. Calabasas, Calif., has that distinction, enacting an outdoor smoking ban in 2006.

Most people do not disagree with indoor smoking bans, since nonsmokers have little chance to escape second-hand smoke in the confined spaces of a restaurant or other public building. Studies have shown that second-hand smoke can be just as dangerous to nonsmokers as primary smoke is to the smoker.

But banning cigarettes outdoors? That may be a bit extreme for some.

After all, a park is not like a restaurant. A smoker's exhaust is diluted in the great outdoors. A nonsmoker may notice the stygian odor from the cigarette, but the harmful effects are minimal to nonexistent. The kids are arguably at greater risk from the playground equipment than from breathing a little diluted tobacco smoke carried by the breeze.

It's hard to see, some would argue, why smokers in a 10- or 20-acre park should stop smoking to "protect" nonsmokers in the area. Park users are probably more at risk from regular air pollution than they are from cigarette smoke.

Some research suggests otherwise.

Luke Naeher of the University of Georgia sampled air quality outside five bars and restaurants after an indoor smoking ban was enacted in Athens, Ga. Naeher's study, presented at a conference of the American Thorasic Society last month, found that the air contained elevated levels of carbon monoxide and fine particulates, two pollutants regulated by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency that are also found in cigarette smoke. Naeher's study found that particulate levels in the smoking areas was between 160.9 and 186.4 micrograms per cubic meter, while a control site only had 63 micrograms of PM2.5, showing that the cigarette smoke was producing more pollutants than passing cars.

There may also be a public safety reason for restricting outdoor smoking. In drought conditions, a carelessly thrown-away cigarette can easily start a fire. Just look at the scorch marks along freeway shoulders this summer and see what damage a cigarette can do.

Laws already bar people from drinking alcoholic beverages in public places, so why not smoking? While a smoker is not likely to become violent or disorderly, he does present a problem for others, especially those with asthma or other respiratory ailments aggravated by pollutants.

Then again, there's always somebody who wants to make a law against something. Government intrudes increasingly into private life, and seems ever more willing to turn regular people into petty criminals. Outdoor smoking bans may be the next example.

[jumar]

I don't smoke, don't like the smell of smoke...but I have to agree that this is taking it a bit to far, to ban people from being able to smoke outdoors.

[asdf]

same.... its a bit much.

[Sombeech]

WOW.

Here's my plan:
Hand out cards to current smokers. Future smokers can get one within the next 5 years. After that, only those who have this "smoker's license" are allowed to smoke for the rest of their lives. Their freedom is not taken from them.

[KillEmAll]

I don't think it's taking it too far. It's banning it from public outdoor places. Smoke in your house, your yard, your car, but why should I have to breath someone elses smoke? It's about friggin' time. I don't know why it's even though of as a right.

[M00km0nster]

This is taking it too far! What is this country coming to when I cant take my kids to the park, breath in that wonderful cigarette smoke? This is American damn it :( I want them to get their fix, and 2nd hand smoke is legal for others under 19 thank you :)

Now I just wish there was a way to get my kids to drink 2nd hand beer somehow....

[Mtnman1830]

Starting July 1st, employees at my place of employment can no longer smoke on the premises. They will have to clock out and leave the property to have their smoke.

We can only clock out once a day for 30 minutes. There are going to be some very grumpy people!!

[stefan]

Starting July 1st, employees at my place of employment can no longer smoke on the premises. They will have to clock out and leave the property to have their smoke.

We can only clock out once a day for 30 minutes. There are going to be some very grumpy people!!

oh my. i would have to argue that this is unreasonable.

[MY T PIMP]

Don't fret there is always chewing tobacco. :ne_nau:
http://deseretnews.com/photos/2780764.jpg

[Mtnman1830]

Mtnman1830 wrote:
Starting July 1st, employees at my place of employment can no longer smoke on the premises. They will have to clock out and leave the property to have their smoke.

We can only clock out once a day for 30 minutes. There are going to be some very grumpy people!!


oh my. i would have to argue that this is unreasonable.

Yeah. And to make it worse, the time clocks are on the assembly lines, so it could take 15 minutes to clock out, warm up some food, and get where you are able to smoke.

[shlingdawg]

Starting July 1st, employees at my place of employment can no longer smoke on the premises. They will have to clock out and leave the property to have their smoke.

We can only clock out once a day for 30 minutes. There are going to be some very grumpy people!!

oh my. i would have to argue that this is unreasonable.

Unless he works for some form of government office with which the employees are paid with my tax dollars. In which case I would applaud the notion.

I guess smokers don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to equal employment? :ne_nau:

[jumar]

I guess smokers don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to equal employment?
Big difference with smokers is it's not like race or something you can't change....it's voluntary

[shlingdawg]

I guess smokers don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to equal employment?
Big difference with smokers is it's not like race or something you can't change....it's voluntary

I know that, and you know that. But try telling that to someone who's smoked 4 packs a day for the last 20 years (who isn't already dead from cancer).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they should have rights for smoking. Not at all. But I'm sure someone will try to play some sort of "legal" card.

[jumar]

But I'm sure someone will try to play some sort of "legal" card.
Yeah :frustrated:

In a day in age when someone can sue a dry cleaners for $50-some million for a pair of pants, and with everyone trying to avoid taking responsibility by blaming everything on genetics, their parents, Bush etc....

:roll:

[stefan]

genetics?

[jumar]

I hear people blame all sorts of 'bad habits' on genetics.

[Mtnman1830]

It ususally skips a generation.[/quote]

[HEADHUNTER]

I live in Davis county and am glad this ban is being discussed. Take your smoke elsewhere. If you want to smoke a cancer stick - do it at your house, car, etc... don't blow that crap my way - I don't want it near me or my kids.

Most smokers have courtesy - but it's those scumbags that light up and think it's okay to blow that crap around are really annoying.

Speak up smokers - if you have the lung capacity

[jumar]

"Mind if I smoke?"
"No. Mind if I burp pastrami belches in your face?"

:roflol:

[Sombeech]

here we go

[jumar]

http://www.yasharbooks.com/snort3.gif

[moabfool]

I think it's a good start. Now if we could only get smoking banned from the ski resorts. It totally sucks when you're on the chair lift and the guy next to you lights up, especially when you're down wind. It's almost as annoying when the same idiot cracks open his favorite beverage and then drops the empty can in the trees.

What are your feelings on private clubs? I know folks are trying to ban smoking there too. The statistics say that 3 out of 5 Utahns support a ban on smoking in private clubs. I say that 3 out of 5 Utahns don't go to private clubs (or wouldn't admit it to their bishop) so they don't have the right to an opinion. That said, it would be nice to be able to see live music without smelling like an ash tray.

[Rev. Coyote]

It's a shame when we have to legislate manners. But smokers tend to be rude, and their faux pas leaves the rest of us sick and stinky.

I enjoy a cigar now and then, but make sure I'm far away from innocent bystanders when I fire that sucker up. Unless it's some cleric. Then I blow the smoke up his skirt.

[stefan]

What are your feelings on private clubs?

i have ZERO qualms about banning them in private clubs. having spent a lot of time in smokefilled and smokeless bars/clubs ... smokeless is the greatest things since sliced bread.

however, i would think it generally unreasonable and moreover bad business to ban smoking outdoors on the premises at a club.

[Alex]

Some airports have the smoking rooms. It would be wise to build those around public places, like restrooms.

That was the best experience I had with my kid, we were in LA or some other airport that had those rooms. I took my kid stood outside and started pointing my fingers at people inside. It was awesome! So then I told a joke to my kid and he started laughing, while I was still pointing my finger. I saw a couple of women storm out of the room and disappear in the crowd giving me dirty looks.


Build the smoking zoos, I will bring my kids and teach them what not to do!

[JP]

All for this ban :2thumbs: Back here in Connecticut you cannot smoke in public places. It was a bit of a shock walking into the Moab bar scene to find people smoking in there.

[asdf]

They should just ban people from public places :roflol:

[R]

People, people, people. Tobacco is a dangerous, unhealthy substance that is, by and large, without any kind of redeeming value. It has long been my opinion that it should be entirely illegal. I don't want my son smoking any more than I want him doing lines of blow or lighting a crack pipe. I also deeply resent that our government provides subsidies to tobacco growers.

If you disagree, please tell me: what are the benefits of tobacco?

:soapbox:

[Rev. Coyote]

If you disagree, please tell me: what are the benefits of tobacco?

Smoking makes you look cool.

[gonzo]

It's good training for high altitudes - makes breathing at sea level seem like 10,000 ft. So, when you get to 10,000 ft it just feels natural.

[stefan]

People, people, people. Tobacco is a dangerous, unhealthy substance that is, by and large, without any kind of redeeming value. It has long been my opinion that it should be entirely illegal. I don't want my son smoking any more than I want him doing lines of blow or lighting a crack pipe. I also deeply resent that our government provides subsidies to tobacco growers.

If you disagree, please tell me: what are the benefits of tobacco?

:soapbox:

well ... nicotine does have benefits to the brain, although there are other ways of ingesting it.

nicotine often can improve memory, alertness/focus/concentration and learning. nicotine is used on alzheimers patients. and the cholinergic receptors that nicotine acts on are ubiquitous throughout the brain.

you could add the appetite-suppressing and metabolism-boosting effects of nicotine as well.

nicotine has many positive effects, though repeated ingestion can form dependence. it's the "smoking" aspect that has no redeeming qualities to it.

[HEADHUNTER]

you could add the appetite-suppressing and metabolism-boosting effects of nicotine as well.

Yeah - I've never seen a fat smoker :haha:

[R]

well ... nicotine does have benefits to the brain, although there are other ways of ingesting it.

nicotine often can improve memory, alertness/focus/concentration and learning. nicotine is used on alzheimers patients. and the cholinergic receptors that nicotine acts on are ubiquitous throughout the brain.

you could add the appetite-suppressing and metabolism-boosting effects of nicotine as well.

nicotine has many positive effects, though repeated ingestion can form dependence. it's the "smoking" aspect that has no redeeming qualities to it.

I stand slightly, vaguely and semantically corrected.

One more point: I've been against smoking all my life, far longer than I have been with Abby, whose first husband, a life-long smoker, died of lung cancer at 42.

[R]

Smoking makes you look cool.

I know you must have meant, "Smoking makes you look like a d!ckhead."

[asdf]

That was a pretty rude thing to say...

Reading these posts makes me think you guys have smokers chasing you around trying to kill you.

[moabfool]

That was a pretty rude thing to say...

Reading these posts makes me think you guys have smokers chasing you around trying to kill you.

Chasing? No
Around? Yes, I passed several today while walking on Main St. in SLC and got the unique priveledge of inhaling their emissions.
Trying to kill me? No
Succeeding at killing me? Yes. Thus the rant.

I was going to say this earlier but witheld. Smoking has zero redeeming qualities. Here are the steps necessary to smoke.

1) Place a known carcenogen, rolled in paper into your mouth.
2) Set the known carcenogen on fire.
3) Suck.
4) Exhale said known carcenogen and force others around you to inhale your needless emissions.

Also, if there's anybody out there who would like to take the money they would've spent on cigarettes and give it to me I'd be happy to take it. If I can get five smokers to agree with this plan I could afford a pretty nice house. There's nothing to lose. They'd be doing nothing different than what they do now, which is, give money to somebody who has no intention of giving them anything in return.

[tanya]

I know you must have meant, "Smoking makes you look like a d!ckhead."




For SURE!!!!! :nod:

[tanya]

Starting July 1st, employees at my place of employment can no longer smoke on the premises. They will have to clock out and leave the property to have their smoke.

We can only clock out once a day for 30 minutes. There are going to be some very grumpy people!!

Dang! How wonderful! :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs:

As an employeer it costs me so much for my 150 some employees to go out and smoke all day long!!!! --- while they leave the non-smokers inside to do all the work!

[tanya]

here we go


Good one! :2thumbs:

[asdf]

:2thumbs:

[HEADHUNTER]

Also, if there's anybody out there who would like to take the money they would've spent on cigarettes and give it to me I'd be happy to take it. If I can get five smokers to agree with this plan I could afford a pretty nice house. There's nothing to lose. They'd be doing nothing different than what they do now, which is, give money to somebody who has no intention of giving them anything in return.

My boy and I were talking about that the other day. My old room mate smoked at least 3 packs a day - every single day. I'm guessing he spent around 4k/yr in smokes - so multiple that by 5 smokers - you have your house payment covered for a year on a dang nice house.

Smoke 'em if ya got 'em.

[stefan]

I was going to say this earlier but witheld. Smoking has zero redeeming qualities. Here are the steps necessary to smoke.


while i dislike smoking, i disagree with the fact that it has zero redeeming qualities. but i would never suggest that one should smoke tobacco, except perhaps under special circumstances.



1) Place a known carcenogen, rolled in paper into your mouth.
2) Set the known carcenogen on fire.
3) Suck.
4) Exhale said known carcenogen and force others around you to inhale your needless emissions.


to a lesser extent you do this everytime you bbq/broil/grill or char any food you eat

[asdf]

Also, if there's anybody out there who would like to take the money they would've spent on cigarettes and give it to me I'd be happy to take it. If I can get five smokers to agree with this plan I could afford a pretty nice house. There's nothing to lose. They'd be doing nothing different than what they do now, which is, give money to somebody who has no intention of giving them anything in return.

My boy and I were talking about that the other day. My old room mate smoked at least 3 packs a day - every single day. I'm guessing he spent around 4k/yr in smokes - so multiple that by 5 smokers - you have your house payment covered for a year on a dang nice house.

Smoke 'em if ya got 'em.


3 packs a day is hardly typical

You can have it... But only if I get all the money someone like Iceaxe has spent on gear over the years.

I came from a family of smokers oh, i mean dickheads right. I don't smoke, but i dont think 90 total seconds of second hand smoke a year kills me (not counting bar time). Anymore then walking from the car inside work on bad air quality days like today.

[Rev. Coyote]

Smoking makes one look sophisticated.

The last time I smoked a cigar, it was at an outdoors lounge on a sofa in Scottsdale at the Hyatt Spa Resort. Fires blazed. A steel drum band played. We quaffed top-shelf bourbon untill the wee hours talking business and politics and have a roaring time.

So there I was among the sophisticates, the captains of industry, with my mighty cigar breathing in the night air, wallowing in success.

Then I coughed a little bit and trundled off to bed. My mouth tasted poopie in the morning.

[tanya]

Not to piss off Summit by me daring to post in the uutah.com forum.... or at least in a thread where he might have interest. (yeah I saw your post before you or someone else deleted it.)

But this was just mailed to me by a Kane County official type. They want Orderville and Kanab to follow suit. I thought someone might have interest in it.

Murray
Smoking limits are stiffened
By Cathy McKitrick
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 06/15/2007 02:00:45 AM MDT


With a unanimous city council vote this week, the bustling mid-valley city of Murray joined the ranks of Logan, Salt Lake City, South Salt Lake and other Utah cities that have enacted outdoor smoking bans in city-owned public places.
Murray's new ordinance, which takes effect immediately, extends to baseball diamonds and soccer fields, bleachers and spectator areas, parks and any streets and sidewalks therein, linear parks and trails, picnic pavilions and shelters, outdoor swimming pools, outdoor ice rinks, amphitheaters and playgrounds.
The ban also applies to other city-owned property during mass gatherings and parades.
Golf-course fairways are exempt from the ban.
Jan Wells, Mayor Dan Snarr's chief of staff, said that no one spoke out against the restriction.
Earlier this week, members of the Davis County Board of Health unanimously approved a countywide regulation to ban smoking in all public outdoor places, including those that are privately owned.
The new restrictions have broad community support due to findings that any exposure to secondhand smoke can be harmful, especially to children.
cmckitrick@sltrib.com


Smoking ban extended another 25 ft. distance
Davis County Clipper Tom Busselberg 14.JUN.07
FARMINGTON

[R]

That was a pretty rude thing to say...

Summit, you are correct. It was rude, and I apologize.

My opinions about smoking are that is dangerous and destructive in more ways than I care to count. If you are a smoker, I don't want to belittle you or accuse you of being a jerk, as much as I want to encourage you to please, please consider quitting smoking. In an era of vast potential for the human race, it's such a shame to let damaging, pointless addictions destroy us.

From Wikipedia...

"A person's increased risk of contracting disease is directly proportional to the length of time that a person continues to smoke as well as the amount smoked. However, if someone stops smoking, then these chances gradually decrease as the damage to their body is repaired. A year after quitting, the risk of contracting disease is half that of a smoker."

[fouristhenewone]

[quote=Summit42]In an era of vast potential for the human race, it's such a shame to let damaging, pointless addictions destroy us.
"[/i]

you mean like flying a plane that relies on petroleum products across the country? ;)

I understand people's concern about smoking in public parks, venues, etc. However, I do feel like the more restrictions you make on personal freedom, the more damage you do to freedom itself.

I myself smoke on a semi-frequent basis - a pack of cigs will last me a couple of weeks, unless I go to a bar. however, I just don't see smokers being the inconsiderate "dickheads" that you guys must see them as. I go to Liberty Park quite a bit, and I've never seen anybody sitting around the playground, blowing smoke at little children. I go to Gallivan every year, and have yet to see a smoker hanging out with a bunch of non-smokers blowing smoke in their face.

Of all things that you are exposed to, even if we just limit it to air-borne carcinogens, people smoking in public is the least you should be worried about.

On the other hand, I'm all for ticketing people who smoke in their houses when they have kids, or those idiots who roll around with all their windows up, smoking a cig with their kids in the backseat.

I guess to each his own, but I do know that a government who begins to regulate everything you do, whether it's on your property or public property can be a dangerous thing.

Rev - I'm surprised to see you in support of this, I guess I might have you pegged wrong.

[asdf]

[color=white]Not to piss off Summit by me daring to post in the uutah.com forum.... or at least in a thread where he might have interest. (yeah I saw your post before you or someone else deleted it.)

sorry.. but you do it and i never said names.

[asdf]

[color=white]Not to piss off Summit by me daring to post in the uutah.com forum.... or at least in a thread where he might have interest. (yeah I saw your post before you or someone else deleted it.)

Before I get lynched by Tanya fans...

The post I deleted had a list of things that bother me more then then second had smoke I smell when walking down the street. One of them was when people reply to posts 3 times in a row (with in a min) when they could just use copy and paste into one post. I also listed quoting a quote within a quote of quote... you know what I am talking about.

I hardly see this as a "DARE" to post in UUTAH. I am not sorry these things irritates me. But keep in mind it does not matter if its you for my mom posting like that still bugs me.

[tanya]

Cedar City Council Considers Ban on Smoking in City Parks

By: Cathy Wentz The Cedar City Council heard a request that the city pass an ordinance banning smoking in city parks from Jordan Mathis, health educator for the Southwest Utah Department of Health, during its work meeting, June 20.
Mathis said Salt Lake City passed an ordinance against smoking in public parks, cemeteries, on golf courses and in mass gatherings in November 2006. He said Davis County has recently passed legislation banning smoking in public places including ATM lines. He said Beaver and Santa Clara have also recently passed ordinances against smoking in public parks.
Mathis said the health department believes second-hand smoke is a classic carcinogen. He said, according to information from the Mayo Clinic, an estimated 38,000 to 65,000 non-smokers die each year in the United States from second-hand smoke.

[tanya]

More on the subject of smoking...

The European Union's consumer chief aims to prevent thousands of fire-related deaths and injuries each year by making all cigarettes sold in EU countries self-extinguishing, European Commission officials said.


The "fire-safe" cigarettes stop burning automatically after a few seconds if not puffed, due to small gaps in the cigarette paper which cuts the circulation of oxygen.

Officials at the EU executive said EU Consumer Protection Commissioner Meglena Kuneva would bring forward proposals later this year to make the self-extinguishing cigarettes mandatory across the 27-nation bloc.

"Data from just 14 member states show that over 2,000 deaths a year are caused by cigarette-related fires, with thousands more people injured and tens of millions of euros worth of damage caused," a Commission official told Reuters.

"There have already been discussions with the various stakeholders such as the fire-safety authorities, the tobacco industry and consumer groups. There is general support across the board."

Commission officials are developing an EU-wide standard for the cigarettes, similar to one in the United States and Canada.

"Canada introduced legislation in 2005 and a number of U.S. states have followed suit including New York, New Jersey and California, while Australia intends to also bring in laws for fire-safe cigarettes," another Commission official said.

"So, it would be more sensible and easier for industry if we draw up a common standard to be used across the globe."

The officials said research showed that the cost of the new tobacco regulations in North America did not affect the overall cost of cigarettes.

"The cost is around 0.01 to 0.02 euro cent per packet," a Commission official said.

The Commission officials said the tobacco industry told them it would back their plan, once it was given enough time to adapt to the new legislation.

Previously tobacco firms said chemical additives required for fire-safe cigarettes would cause more damage to smokers and complained that smokers would not like the new taste.

"We support the push for these smoke-free cigarettes, but yes, it must be in line with the standard adopted in New York," said Richard James, spokesman for Philip Morris. -- maker of top-selling Marlboro and other brands.

"Also it must be made clear that this measure alone with not totally prevent fires from burning cigarettes, smokers must also be more responsible when smoking."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070705/hl_nm/eu_cigarettes_dc_1;_ylt=AnfEGCdcPR6aBfV3hrxomoAE1v AI

[KillEmAll]

Went to the drive-in Tuesday night with my family... sucked in everybody's smoke the WHOLE DAMN MOVIE! I was going to ask the people next to us to wait until after the 1st feature at least, but then I realized I'd have to tell half the place since there was a dozen glowing red dots around us. I can't believe you have to make laws to get people to do the obvious. Sad.

[hank moon]

Build the smoking zoos, I will bring my kids and teach them what not to do!

Have you thought about writing a story or magazine article about your experience? You could be the Gen-Y Dr. Spock...your kids are lucky to have a father like you!

[hank moon]

In an era of vast potential for the human race, it's such a shame to let damaging, pointless addictions destroy us.

Yes! I agree. Too bad smoking is the "National Hate Your Neighbor Fad" du jour - helps mask all the other destructive things we do to ourselves and others. Well, one down, 1000000000000000000 to go.

[hank moon]

Went to the drive-in Tuesday night with my family... sucked in everybody's smoke the WHOLE DAMN MOVIE! I was going to ask the people next to us to wait until after the 1st feature at least, but then I realized I'd have to tell half the place since there was a dozen glowing red dots around us. I can't believe you have to make laws to get people to do the obvious. Sad.

The whole sad story is contained within your post. If you're the "blaming" type, you could reasonably blame yourself for taking no action. Many bullshit laws would be unnecessary if we policed ourselves better.

U.S.A. : land of the free, home of the brave(?)

[Mtnman1830]

Well, the no smoking on company property didn't work out.

First they said that employees would have to clock out to smoke on the street.

Then, they didn't have to clock out.

A few weeks ago, they can now smoke in the gazebo again, unless your hire date is after july 1st 2007, or you are a temporary/contractor.