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Scott P
04-17-2007, 11:30 AM
I thought I would start a friendly thread where people can post some of the illegally damaged areas they run into and keep the thread current.

This thread is meant for information and not a heated debate. :2thumbs: As we all agree that staying on trail is better for both ATV riders and others as well.

April 14-16 damage report:

Someone is really trashing parts of the Swell. The area visited last weekend where much damage was noticed was between exit 108 on I-70 and South Salt Wash. I don't know who is doing it, but there are plenty of designated routes and people are asked to stay on trail. There are a lot of new user made trails and some even have fresh tracks on the ones posted for "closed to vehicles".

Someone has also created a brand new track (illegal as the area is limited to designated routes) that heads east from the stock pond in Poncho Wash.

If you witness who is doing this, please report it to the BLM. If you are an ATV rider, please stay on the legal trails as to not ruin it for the rest of the riders.

This thread is to report current illegal abuse you see to have everyone keep an eye out for it and give a heads up. Please state the date of your visit and the location of the noticed damage.

Thanks!

PS, I will be putting together a service project that all users are welcome to help block off some of the illegal user created tracks (such as the one east of Poncho). Most of the open areas will be impossible to block from illegal riders, but some more confine tracks should be hard to block. Please PM me if interested. All users are welcome to join and lend a hand. ATV riders are especially encouraged.

UtahFire
04-18-2007, 07:49 PM
While I agree with your indent to reduce illegal abuse, I don't think you will get much response from OHV users on your request for them to post abuses they see. You see, the OHV community doesn't much trust people who demonstrate a desire to dramatically reduce an activity which they enjoy.

I am the first to admit that the OHV community has work to do to educate other users to tread lightly. However, I also know that reports of abuses on this forum and others will end up on SUWA's website to be waved in front of legislators, the media and judges. For that reason, I will work to educate fellow OHV users to stay on trails but I will not report abuses to be used against us.

Scott P
04-18-2007, 09:08 PM
For that reason, I will work to educate fellow OHV users to stay on trails but I will not report abuses to be used against us.

I had no intentions of using anything against anyone other than the illegal riders.

My intentions of having the areas posted that are being damaged on this thread is to give a heads up so people (such as ATV riders) can keep an eye out in specific areas and for the riders whom are riding illegally.

It was my hope that they would be reported and fined/prosecuted.

I think we may agree that they are ruining it not only for people who like wilderness, but for the ATV riders as well that do stay on the designated routes.


You see, the OHV community doesn't much trust people

It works both ways, but I was hoping that some ATV riders and other users would be willing to work together on some issues that are benificial to both groups. There has to be at least some trust and cooperation some day, IMHO. So far, neither group seems to want to budge. I am hoping that I haven't done anything to you that would cause you not to trust, other than our difference in opinions. I have been quite honest with my own opinions and intentions, rather than hiding them or having a secret agenda.

Someday there will have to be at least some cooperation. Service project wise, I was hoping to extend the olive branch by having a field trip/service project where All users are welcome to join and lend a hand. ATV riders are especially encouraged.


However, I also know that reports of abuses on this forum and others will end up on SUWA's website to be waved in front of legislators, the media and judges.

I see what you mean, but are you aware of any times this has actually happened from uutah.com? Also, shouldn't abuse be reported? I hope if anyone does see illegal use and catches the riders will report it to the BLM.

Also, I never asked for photos, just a heads up to be on the lookout for the illegal riders (only the illegal ones) in hopes that they could be caught.

(Note: For those reading the thread whom are not familiar with utahfire's an my previous discussions, what he says is true that I am mostly pro-wilderness. I am not a member of SUWA and don't agree with all they say, but I do like wilderness. However, my intentions of this thread/post are only to hopefully catch illegal riders only and not legal ones. I am hoping that having more illegal riders caught will be benificial for both ATV riders and other users, and that is my only intention).

scoutabout
04-18-2007, 10:09 PM
However, my intentions of this thread/post are only to hopefully catch illegal riders only and not legal ones.

Then you should post a thread with contact information for the LEO's on every FS district and BLM unit in Utah, and encourage other users seeing illegal activity to snap a photo and forward the information to the appropriate authorities. It's going to do a lot more than posting here on uutah.com.

ATVUtah
04-19-2007, 08:18 AM
Although I'm sure your intentions are well meaning this is not the place to report abuse because I agree that such reports here or on any forum will be misused and twisted by the media and environmental activist groups like SUWA.

The Place to report such abuse is directly to the land managers for the area involved. Addresses and phone numbers are easily available on the web with a simple Google search.

If you saw a crime happening in your neighborhood you would not run out and post it on a website, you would call 911. The same common sense applies here.

Vigilantisms is not the solution. If you suspect, and I must emphasize suspect, a track is illegal then by all means report it, and PLEASE take photos to send in with your report. Send them to the BLM or Forest Service office responsible for the area and let them do their job to determine is if is actually illegal activities. I have seen many complaints about so called user created or "illegal" tracks. Many turned out to be newly opened designated routes or reopened areas that were previously closed for a period of time. I have also seen reports of so called abuse and off trail riding that ended up being tracks made by the BLM themselves while doing their job so you never know how the track got there for sure without a proper and thorough investigation.

Scott P
04-19-2007, 06:42 PM
If you saw a crime happening in your neighborhood you would not run out and post it on a website, you would call 911. The same common sense applies here.

Yes, this is true, but the problem here is that I saw no crime happening. I only saw the aftermath and didn't catch who was doing it. I was hoping a heads up might help catch someone, but you would have to be in the right place at the wrong time.

I guess the idea of the thread didn't work well.


I have seen many complaints about so called user created or "illegal" tracks.

Trust me, these ones are illegal. There are signs all over saying "designated routes only" and the ones that say "closed to motor vehicles" were driven freshly. I provided the location as well so anyone can see.

Anyway, I guess the thread won't work out as hoped, but please report any illegal use you see, so I'll end here. Hopefully some of these people will be caught. It will be mutual benificial for both ATV and other users to have the ones doing the illegal activities to be caught.

UtahFire
04-20-2007, 07:24 AM
Yes, this is true, but the problem here is that I saw no crime happening. I only saw the aftermath and didn't catch who was doing it. I was hoping a heads up might help catch someone, but you would have to be in the right place at the wrong time.

I guess the idea of the thread didn't work well.

The intent of your original post is well-meaning. All of us should be watching out for illegal activities and reporting them to the authorities. I have found that snapping a picture of the rider and even better of their tow vehicles license plate (if you know it's theirs) is a great way to report these types of activities.



Trust me, these ones are illegal. There are signs all over saying "designated routes only" and the ones that say "closed to motor vehicles" were driven freshly. I provided the location as well so anyone can see.

Anyway, I guess the thread won't work out as hoped, but please report any illegal use you see, so I'll end here. Hopefully some of these people will be caught. It will be mutual benificial for both ATV and other users to have the ones doing the illegal activities to be caught.

I would also like to see better enforcement and fines. At the same time, I firmly disagree with the "just close it" approach of many "wilderness" advocates.