Utah Man Dies after Raft Flips in Grand Canyon

[Scout Master]

Utah Man Dies after Raft Flips in Grand Canyon
March 31st, 2007 @ 1:37pm

GRAND CANYON NATIONAL PARK, Ariz. (AP) -- A Salt Lake City man died Friday afternoon after his raft flipped over while going over a rapids in the Grand Canyon, National Park Service officials said.

Marc Allred, 62, was with another man in the raft running the Crystal Rapid when the it flipped over and tossed them into the Colorado River, Grand Canyon National Park spokeswoman Maureen Oltrogge said. Allred's companion swam to shore and Allred was picked up by another boat.

Once aboard, Allred lost consciousness and the boaters started CPR, Oltrogge said. They used a satellite phone to contact park rangers, who went to the scene and continued efforts to revive Allred, but they were unsuccessful.

Allred was with his wife and 11 others on a planned 25-day trip down the canyon that began Tuesday, Oltrogge said. The Park Service flew his body to the South Rim of the canyon, accompanied by his wife.

An autopsy will be conducted by the Coconino County Medical Examiner.

The other boaters continued on the trip.

(Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

[DiscGo]

That is too bad. It really is a bummer how many people do "fun things" without the slightest realization that it may be the last thing they do. I wish this guy and his family all the best.

[denaliguide]

tough break. but it beats dying in a hospital with tubes sticking out of you.

when i did the grand, crystal was the biggest challenge for me. it was much more serious than lava. i sneaked it on river right. it has a huge hole in it that was super scary just to watch.

my condolences go out his family and friends.

[Iceaxe]

Dang.... dying on day 4 of a 25 day trip really sucks..... not meaning to be insensitive, but if it was me I would have want to get a couple more days in. I guess it really was a one-in-a-lifetime trip.

[tanya]

Dang.... dying on day 4 of a 25 day trip really sucks..... not meaning to be insensitive, but if it was me I would have want to get a couple more days in. I guess it really was a one-in-a-lifetime trip.


Crystal is one of the worst there... that and Lava.

The boat I was on ran it perfect..... I hardly got wet. It was smooth!

[tanya]

That is too bad. It really is a bummer how many people do "fun things" without the slightest realization that it may be the last thing they do. I wish this guy and his family all the best.


I thought every rapid was the last thing I would ever do!!!!!


:eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2:

Lava!

[denaliguide]

here's another lava shot. what a difference in the water color. the big hole is just to my right. it's huge!!

[tanya]

here's another lava shot. what a difference in the water color. the big hole is just to my right. it's huge!!


Great photo. Those HOLES :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: are what scare me! I just cannot see how someone falling into one of those can survive.... the current would take them to the rest of the holes most likely. Dubendorf that I almost fell in had 3 BIG holes (I think) Would I, or anyone else, not have been swept through all 3 if I fell in the first? So many seem to fall out or have boats turned over, but few really do seem to die in the Grand Canyon on the river?

[Iceaxe]

Anyone ever been on a river trip with a death? It would have to really suck, because the group is required to finish the trip and remove all their gear from the canyon. This means folks on the trip above will miss the funeral.

I was on a river trip once where a girl was bitten by a rattlesnake. The NPS flew the girl and her mother out but everyone else was required to finish. Fortunately for the rest of the family stuck on the river we were only one day from the end.

:popcorn:

[DiscGo]

It would have to really suck, because the group is required to finish the trip and remove all their gear from the canyon.

.....everyone else was required to finish.

:popcorn:


I'm not very familiar with the rules of rafting. What does that mean that people are required to finish? I can understand not being able to just abandon your stuff, but is there something that prevents members of the group from leaving early or just pulling the raft out sooner than schedule a different boat ramp than anticipated?

[denaliguide]

on the grand canyon the first real takeout is 225 miles from the put in. you would need at least have a minimum number of people to run the boats that far. i dont know if you could hire the mules to haul your stuff up from phantom ranch or not. plus options for hiking out are limited as well. if you don't hike out from phantom ranch you would need to arrange a car pickup at the top of one of the other trailheads. so of which are rather remote. ie south bass or at the top of the trail that goes up tapeats creek and past thunder river to monument point. logistically a nightmare.

[Iceaxe]

The NPS flew out the victim and spouse, as is typical in this type of case. Others could hike out at one of the access points. But bottom line is the group is still responsible for removing everything from the canyon and the easiest method to remove the gear is to float it out. I mean is sucks, but you can't just abandon your gear on the river or the NPS will issue a huge fine.

I know of one instants where a guys jeep broke down in The Maze. He told me he spent $4000 to finally get the Jeep out because the NPS would not let him abandon it. The biggest problem he had was the Jeep was only worth $2000.

.

[tanya]

on the grand canyon the first real takeout is 225 miles from the put in. you would need at least have a minimum number of people to run the boats that far. i dont know if you could hire the mules to haul your stuff up from phantom ranch or not. plus options for hiking out are limited as well. if you don't hike out from phantom ranch you would need to arrange a car pickup at the top of one of the other trailheads. so of which are rather remote. ie south bass or at the top of the trail that goes up tapeats creek and past thunder river to monument point. logistically a nightmare.


Bo was stung by a scorpion our 2nd night on the river. He did not set up a tent and was sleeping out on the ground. After than he started to set up his tent. Is there more than one variety of scorpions along the river in the canyon?

I was stung by one at Kolob Arch in Zion and did not have to get medical help either?

[tanya]

The NPS flew out the victim and spouse, as is typical in this type of case. Others could hike out at one of the access points. But bottom line is the group is still responsible for removing everything from the canyon and the easiest method to remove the gear is to float it out. I mean is sucks, but you can't just abandon your gear on the river or the NPS will issue a huge fine.

I know of one instants where a guys jeep broke down in The Maze. He told me he spent $4000 to finally get the Jeep out because the NPS would not let him abandon it. The biggest problem he had was the Jeep was only worth $2000.

.

Did you raft the Grand Canyon Shane?

[denaliguide]

I know of one instants where a guys jeep broke down in The Maze. He told me he spent $4000 to finally get the Jeep out because the NPS would not let him abandon it. The biggest problem he had was the Jeep was only worth $2000.

.

my 4WD went out when i was up by paul bunyons potty in some soft sand. i was well and truly stuck. called a wrecker and he suggested that i just hitch to moab and rent a jeep and towe it out myself. so that's what i did. only cost me about $200. i'll never call a wrecker if i don't have to. unless the axle broke and it wouldn't roll of course.

[tanya]

here's another lava shot. what a difference in the water color. the big hole is just to my right. it's huge!!

Have you done the Grand Canyon more than once?

[Iceaxe]

Did you raft the Grand Canyon Shane?

Nope.... The Grand the only major section of the Colorado or Green I have not done. No way in hell I can take a month off of work to do it.... so my plan at the moment is this is to be my first great adventure when I retire. Since I came up with that idea I've kinda been saving it.

It gives me something to look forward to other then wearing Depends and eating prunes :haha:

:popcorn:

[tanya]

Did you raft the Grand Canyon Shane?

Nope.... The Grand the only major section of the Colorado or Green I have not done. No way in hell I can take a month off of work to do it.... so my plan at the moment is this is to be my first great adventure when I retire. Since I came up with that idea I've kinda been saving it.

It gives me something to look forward to other then wearing Depends and eating prunes :haha:

:popcorn:

Are you in line for permit or are you going to do a commercial permit or go with others? I would love to do this trip several more times! This time not 6 weeks after surgery! OUCH!

[Iceaxe]

Are you in line for permit or are you going to do a commercial permit or go with others? I would love to do this trip several more times!

For a month long trip I would probably go Pro or maybe hook up with someone who picked up a permit. If you can go on short notice or row a raft or are willing to go off-season it's not to hard to get on a trip.

:popcorn:

[tanya]

Are you in line for permit or are you going to do a commercial permit or go with others? I would love to do this trip several more times!

For a month long trip I would probably go Pro or maybe hook up with someone who picked up a permit. If you can go on short notice or row a raft or are willing to go off-season it's not to hard to get on a trip.

:popcorn:

I can do those! Sign me up! :popcorn:

[denaliguide]

Bo was stung by a scorpion our 2nd night on the river. He did not set up a tent and was sleeping out on the ground. After than he started to set up his tent. Is there more than one variety of scorpions along the river in the canyon?

I was stung by one at Kolob Arch in Zion and did not have to get medical help either?[/quote]

yes, as i remember there's 2 species of scorpion found in the grand canyon. one subspecies called the grand canyon slender scorpion is small and has a real nasty sting. the smaller the more dangerous.

http://www.nps.gov/grca/naturescience/insects.htm

[soitgos]

I've been on the river when people have died. Luckily, not people who were actually with me. We ran Marsh Creek in 2003 because the road to Boundary Creek was still closed. Two people on two separate trips died that day. May 25, 2003 was not a good day.

I was scouting the gorge on the Selway in June 2004 when I witnesses a raft capsize in Ladle. One person made no attempt to get out of the river. I ran down the trail more than a mile until I was wheezing and had to stop. We later learned she died.

Last summer I was on a GC trip where a man had to be evacuated. This was due to complications of diabetes, not something that happened on the river. He later died.

I have acquaintances on the trip that resulted in the death that initiated this thread. Perhaps some of you know Steve Pace? It was his permit. He waited a very long time to get it. And then a tragedy like this occurs.

Sad.

[tanya]

I've been on the river when people have died. Luckily, not people who were actually with me. We ran Marsh Creek in 2003 because the road to Boundary Creek was still closed. Two people on two separate trips died that day. May 25, 2003 was not a good day.

I was scouting the gorge on the Selway in June 2004 when I witnesses a raft capsize in Ladle. One person made no attempt to get out of the river. I ran down the trail more than a mile until I was wheezing and had to stop. We later learned she died.

Last summer I was on a GC trip where a man had to be evacuated. This was due to complications of diabetes, not something that happened on the river. He later died.

I have acquaintances on the trip that resulted in the death that initiated this thread. Perhaps some of you know Steve Pace? It was his permit. He waited a very long time to get it. And then a tragedy like this occurs.

Sad.

The little local paper here reported a Kayaker death at Lake Powell.... very sad.

I have the deepest respect for those that fall out of those boats and keep running the rivers. What kills most people? The cold? Rocks? Unable to surface?

[soitgos]

Floating rivers is actually not particularly dangerous. At least statistically speaking. Not nearly as dangerous as riding in an automobile.

Lots of different things cause death on the river. I sincerely don

[tanya]

Do we have to go in cold water to participate in the workshop :mrgreen:

[soitgos]

It won't be particularly cold in June, but swimming and getting out of the water are certainly skills we hope participants will learn.

My rule is if someone is going with me on class 4 water before June or after September you must be able to get back in a raft and get on top of an overturned raft.

You have to be able to save yourself. You just can't expect someone else to be there for you. After all, they've probably got their hands full saving themselves.

The first rule of the river is never create a second victim.

[tanya]

It won't be particularly cold in June, but swimming and getting out of the water are certainly skills we hope participants will learn.

My rule is if someone is going with me on class 4 water before June or after September you must be able to get back in a raft and get on top of an overturned raft.

You have to be able to save yourself. You just can't expect someone else to be there for you. After all, they've probably got their hands full saving themselves.

The first rule of the river is never create a second victim.

Are you talking Grand Canyon? Is the water in the 40's in June?

[soitgos]

Oh no. I wish Grand Canyon. This will be on the Green River, just outside the town of Green River. I expect the temp to be somewhere near 60. Evening classroom session Friday, June 8, all day Saturday and through early afternoon Sunday. It's billed as a beginners rescue course, but it's good for everyone to learn and practice these skills. It could save your life.

[tanya]

Oh no. I wish Grand Canyon. This will be on the Green River, just outside the town of Green River. I expect the temp to be somewhere near 60. Evening classroom session Friday, June 8, all day Saturday and through early afternoon Sunday. It's billed as a beginners rescue course, but it's good for everyone to learn and practice these skills. If could save your life.


I can live with 60 :2thumbs: Are you teaching? I think you would be a great teacher. :nod:

[soitgos]

I will be one of the instructors, although I have two remarkable young men coming in to do most of it. You'll be shocked at the things these guys can do. Have you ever seen someone mantel the bow of an 18-foot Maravia? It's worth the price of admission just to watch what these guys can do. You'll also be shocked at what you're capable of after learning a little technique. You probably know that from rock climbing . . .

[tanya]

I will be one of the instructors, although I have two remarkable young men coming in to do most of it. You'll be shocked at the things these guys can do. Have you ever seen someone mantel the bow of an 18-foot Maravia? It's worth the price of admission just to watch what these guys can do. You'll also be shocked at what you're capable of after learning a little technique. You probably know that from rock climbing . . .


I like the older guys. Who wants to watch youngsters?


I want to see you "mantel a bow" :popcorn:

Do you know OC? I loved his campfire stories!

[soitgos]

Oh, you'll want to watch what these guys can do. I can't come close to mantelling the bow of a raft anymore. But, I can get back in . . .

If anyone is interested in the workshop, send me a mailing address to:

soitgos2001@yahoo.com

and I'll send a detailed flyer.

[tanya]

Oh, you'll want to watch what these guys can do. I can't come close to mantelling the bow of a raft anymore. But, I can get back in . . .

If anyone is interested in the workshop, send me a mailing address to:

soitgos2001@yahoo.com

and I'll send a detailed flyer.

What exactly is "mantelling a bow"? :popcorn:

[soitgos]

Actually, being somewhat slow, why don't I just post the information. Lost the flyer formatting, but the info is all here.


River Rescue Workshop
On the Green River

[tanya]

The Son! :five:


Can someone swim in a rapid or do you just go where the water demands?

[soitgos]

Mantel a bow

I'm sure most of you know what the rock climbing move is to "mantel". To lift yourself up so you're weight is on your hands.

An 18-foot Maravia has 24-inch tubes. The rocker is probably another 6-8 inches. So, the top of the tube at the bow is 30 inches above the water. To mantel the bow means to spring out of the water and above the tube, so you are holding yourself on top of the tube on your hands. From there it's a simple process to pull yourself into the raft. Of course, there are very few people who can do something like that.

[tanya]

Mantel a bow

I'm sure most of you know what the rock climbing move is to "mantel". To lift yourself up so you're weight is on your hands.

An 18-foot Maravia has 24-inch tubes. The rocker is probably another 6-8 inches. So, the top of the tube at the bow is 30 inches above the water. To mantel the bow means to spring out of the water and above the tube, so you are holding yourself on top of the tube on your hands. From there it's a simple process to pull yourself into the raft. Of course, there are very few people who can do something like that.

Maybe fewer that have photos of them doing it! Do you have photos of you or your son doing that?

[soitgos]

Yep, the son. I've said this many times and will say it many more, he is the best I have ever been with. He was 14 when I realized I had nothing more to teach him. He's currently the kayak instructor at Utah State U.

One of the skills we teach and practice is aggressive swimming. A life saving skill. We used to teach the defensive swim position. Not anymore. Save yourself and do it NOW!

[soitgos]

I may have a photo. I'll have to look for it. If not, you can take one during the workshop :-)

[tanya]

Yep, the son. I've said this many times and will say it many more, he is the best I have ever been with. He was 14 when I realized I had nothing more to teach him. He's currently the kayak instructor at Utah State U.

One of the skills we teach and practice is aggressive swimming. A life saving skill. We used to teach the defensive swim position. Not anymore. Save yourself and do it NOW![/u]


You have sold me. :2thumbs:

Do you tell campfire stories at the class? That would be the best part.

[tanya]

I may have a photo. I'll have to look for it. If not, you can take one during the workshop :-)


I would LOVE to do that!

[soitgos]

Campfire stories is a major part of any river experience . . .

[tanya]

Campfire stories is a major part of any river experience . . .

What is your favorite story that does not involve Bo?

[soitgos]

My favorite story that doesn't include Bo? Hmmm . . . most my favorite stories include Bo. But, I have lots of stories.

Zeus, what did I do to piss you off?
By Steve Christensen

Labyrinth Canyon was one of those places I always wanted to float, but for many reasons it never made it to the top of the priority list. After all, it

[Bo_Beck]

Yep, the son. I've said this many times and will say it many more, he is the best I have ever been with. He was 14 when I realized I had nothing more to teach him. He's currently the kayak instructor at Utah State U.

One of the skills we teach and practice is aggressive swimming. A life saving skill. We used to teach the defensive swim position. Not anymore. Save yourself and do it NOW![/u]

I got the opportunity about 7 years back to attend a 3 day whitewater rescue course for national parks put on by Grand Canyon NP. We had classroom at Lees Ferry on fridayafternoon and night and then practical application on saturday and sunday on the river above and below Paria Riff. It was a blast to practice throwbags, swimming positions, river crossings and practice entering an eddie to get on a rock. Its amazing the power of water and how one should deal with it! Sounds like a wonderful course...Maybe I can get Zion to spring and send me for some training again! :nod: Thanks for info!

[tanya]

My favorite story that doesn't include Bo? Hmmm . . . most my favorite stories include Bo. But, I have lots of stories.

Zeus, what did I do to piss you off?
By Steve Christensen


You are an excellent writer! I hope you are writing down your many stories so they can be saved for all time. I too love storms when out in the wilderness. I of course love them more at night time when I am nice and dry inside a tent.

What is your favorite Bo story?

[soitgos]

Thanks for the compliment. I am writing down lots of stories. A few have been published in journals, and a couple stories will be included in river anthology being put together by Tom Martin.

My favorite Bo story . . . now that's difficult. You're going to hear all my campfire stories without a campfire.

Oh well, here is one of my favorite Bo stories:

When Bo was 15 he asked me if we could start a kayak program. I was a bit taken back, since we had no kayaks. He responded that he had two, couldn't we start with those. Kayaks are very unique little crafts. The first ones were made of wood and animal skins, then treated cloth. Fiberglass revolutionized kayaks, and made it possible to really make them waterproof, even upside down. Plastic injection then revolutionized kayaking again. Kayaks started to shrink. The first fiberglass kayaks were 14 feet long. Bo's first kayak was under seven feet long. They make even shorter ones. Not just everyone can fit in every kayak. A kayak must "fit." That is important so the paddler can perform the Eskimo roll, the act of turning an upside down kayak upright while still in the kayak. Bo weighed somewhere near 100 pounds when we purchased his first kayak. You can imagine how small it was to fit him.

Anyway, back to the kayak program. I told Bo two kayaks wouldn

[tanya]

Your pride in Bo is cute. :five:

Another great story!

I can hear the fire crackling and feel the warmth on my face as I read your stories. :2thumbs:

I am afraid to push my luck..... but just in case you are not tired of typing stories..... How about a funny one?

[soitgos]

Yeah, I get a bit carried away when talking about Bo. It's not my fault, you keep asking. ':ne_nau:'

Being a father is the one thing in my life I haven't screwed up. I was on the Rogue River several years ago and everyone was talking about Bo. I made the same comment about the one thing I haven't screwed up. Werner Catsman, a good friend, said, "Well Steve, if there's going to be one thing, that ought to be it." One of the biggest compliments of my life.

Bo has done more and accomplished more already than most people do in their entire life. To get a river guide permit you have to have nine whitewater river trips. When he went to take his test when he was 18 I think he had 90.

A humorous story, huh? Not sure how humorous this is, but here's one more:

In March 2001 we launched on the Salt River at just under 1,300 cfs. Bo was 15 at the time. The flow was dropping quickly. I was sharing a raft with my friend Shannon Bryant. Bo was in a kayak.

Shannon and I had hung up on a number of rocks during the trip, but nothing serious. So, there we were, day three below the serious rapids, perched again on a rock in the middle of a small rapid. The water was moving quite fast. Shannon and I moved our weight, jumped and pulled and low sided and did all the things you can do before getting out of the raft. So it goes . . .

We decided a cold drink was in order. Maybe lunch. Just then Bo came around the downstream side of the raft in his kayak, dropped his paddle in his lap and grabbed the chicken line on the raft. He turned his kayak on its side into the force of the water, and pulled the raft off the rock. Didn't even lose his paddle.

Wish I had a video.

[tanya]

Wow! That's more of an impressive story! I am sure it will always be fresh in your mind. Is Bo your only child? I love to hear parents rave about their grown children and for those same children to rave about their parents. Do you and Bo spend a lot of time swimming and doing other things in water? It seems one would have to be quite comfortable in water to do all these things.