Biner Block Ruins Rope

[Iceaxe]

We have been doing some new routes lately where the anchor is often 50' to 100' behind the pour-over. The problem is we pull our ropes and the rope wears through the sheath at the biner block from dragging such a long distance over the sandstone. Anyone else experienced this? Anyone have a reasonable solution figured out?

We dinged two ropes this past weekend because of this, and it's not the first time we have experianced the problem.

Any help?

:popcorn:

[rockgremlin]

I think if you just wrap the girth hitch several times with tape, it would mitigate most of the damage. We should've tried it, I noticed Eric had some tape with him.

[Brian in SLC]

We have been doing some new routes lately where the anchor is often 50' to 100' behind the pour-over. The problem is we pull our ropes and the rope wears through the sheath at the biner block from dragging such a long distance over the sandstone. Anyone else experienced this? Anyone have a reasonable solution figured out?

How 'bout a nice two bolt anchor on the edge of the drop? Hee hee...

Why not rap double strand with a EDK knot? Why are you using a biner block? Is it to isolate a knot in the pull cord side of the rope system? Maybe switch to a EDK knot block (ie: use a smaller rapide for the anchor).

Take a long enough rope to just rap double strand with no knot?

-Brian in SLC

[rockgremlin]

Take a long enough rope to just rap double strand with no knot?

-Brian in SLC

The problem is that we were doing canyons with no beta, so we didn't know how long the drops would be. Consequently, we were taking along the longest lengths of rope we had, just in case we needed them.

[Brian in SLC]

Take a long enough rope to just rap double strand with no knot?

-Brian in SLC

The problem is that we were doing canyons with no beta, so we didn't know how long the drops would be. Consequently, we were taking along the longest lengths of rope we had, just in case we needed them.

So you had long ropes and still did a biner block?

I don't understand your answer.

Was your rope selection one super long rope, and a bunch of shorter ones you tied together for a pull cord, and you biner blocked to facilitate rappelling single strand?

If you had matching lengths of long rope, why not rappel double strand and use an EDK to tie the rope together? Ie, why biner block?

-Brian in SLC

[stefan]

If you had matching lengths of long rope, why not rappel double strand and use an EDK to tie the rope together? Ie, why biner block?



i understood one benefit to going single-strand (regardless) was that it would be less likely that you'd stick both strands and thus have more options in handling a stuck rope.

this may or may not be relevant depending on the anchor, transition, and everything in between.

[Iceaxe]

The anchor was about 150' from the pour-over. The rappel was about 100'. We had a 300' rope, a 125' rope and a 200' pull chord. The anchor was located in a baby bottom smooth bowl so we were not concerned with sticking a rope.

We blocked the 300' rope at 250' and tied the 200' pull chord to the remaining 50'. This left us dragging the biner block for 100'.

:popcorn:

[Brian in SLC]

The anchor was about 150' from the pour-over. The rappel was about 100'. We had a 300' rope, a 125' rope and a 200' pull chord. The anchor was located in a baby bottom smooth bowl so we were not concerned with sticking a rope.
We blocked the 300' rope at 250' and tied the 200' pull chord to the remaining 50'. This left us dragging the biner block for 100'.

Kinda what I figured.

Did you rap/block from a rapide? Small enough to knot block against, say, with a pair of EDK's?

Also, I wonder, if you sent the last guy down with no block at all, but, rappelling from the tension provided by the other folks tied in to the cord at the bottom of the drop? Would increase the load on the anchor some, but, with friction, not too much? That way a lower profile knot ala the EDK could still be used, and you could feather your rappel line down to the minimal length needed and reduce the wear on any knot point?

Kinda like a simul rappel...only different. Bottom guys pull the slack out of the rappel cord, top guy keeps the knot up until the bottom guys tell him that the rope distance for rappelling is set and they've secured the other side, jump on, hope the rope stretch doesn't cause a brown spot in yer undies, away you go. Easy pull with nothing jammed against the rapide.

-Brian in SLC

[snatch]

i burned through one of tom's 8mm 200ft'ers doing the same thing. the problem results from a very low angled initial rap followed by a vertical drop into a deep slot. because you're so deep you can't back away from the base of the cliff to change the pull angle.

i wonder if nylon ropes are as susceptible as poly sheaths?

in any case, i have seen a rubberized canvas bootie w/ elastic that protects your rope. it seems a few wraps of duct tape would work.

if you can't extend the rap so that its more vertical it seems a little extra effort would save a rope.

[Iceaxe]

We used a small rapid and could have used a knot block against the rapid, I think this might have helped as I believe the biner in the system is part of the problem.

We could not anchor from the folks on the ground as our pull chord was 6mm and not what I consider safe to rappel on under normal conditions.

If I did this same setup again I would eliminate the biner block and replace it with a knot block. I would also roll the rope as I pull it hoping to roll the knot and eliminate a high wear point.

Perhaps an EDK that has a tendency to roll away from the sandstone might eliminate this problem?

:popcorn:

[Brian in SLC]

We could not anchor from the folks on the ground as our pull chord was 6mm and not what I consider safe to rappel on under normal conditions.

I...uhh...have TR'd with my 6mm tied with an EDK to a 9.4mm climbing rope, for super long pitches...a few times... I guess I wouldn't recommend that.

Another dumb thing I did was to lead a route (chicken chickenhead) in LCC with a 6mm static line...which was the only cord we carried up there, as both my partner and I found out one night after work...(fun rappin' it too).


Perhaps an EDK that has a tendency to roll away from the sandstone might eliminate this problem?

That's why we use and luv the EDK, holmes...

Try on a counter top...knot flips up, and its all rope on the drag surface.

-Brian in SLC