ARTIFICIAL but NON-BOLT anchors?

[slim]

I've been thinking of how to improve the security of rappels in these canyons without the use of bolts. I know lots of folks have been rappin' off "piles of rocks" and I've done it too. But it can be lots of work to build them and it is tempting (and often done) to use someone else's even when you can't verify the integrity of the sling around that burried bottom rock. There are often stretches of level sand fill and round boulders partially burried in the sand but these offer little easy help for an anchor.

Here's a couple of ideas I had the other day. I'd appreciate any feedback from you experienced canyoneers and climbers. Anyone used any of these techniques? Or any other similar ideas?

Ideas:
Take down some two foot pieces of aluminum angle "iron", say 1inch, pointed on one end and a hammer (or use a rock). Drive them into the sand at a angle like a big tent stake. Tie to it below the surface level pulling horizontally. There are also quite a few situations I've seen in the canyons where there is a big rock partially buried in the sand but it's all roundy and has no where to hook a sling over that won't slip off. Seems like you could drive one of these stakes in the sand behind (and under) it just to keep the sling down. It would hardly have any load on it as the actual load would be taken by the rock.

Dig a hole in the sand and put a "Imlay Pot Shot" bag full of sand in the bottom and cover back up with sand with the sling coming out close to horizontal through the sand.

Use a "dead man" snow anchor in the sand.

[Scott Card]

Ya... but.... If you drive the angle iron in the canyon, are you leaving it in the canyon? Seems like that is a lot of canyon trash compaired to a dead man, pile of rock or some other "natural" anchor that only uses a sling or chunk of webbing. I think I would prefer a bolt over a chunk of iron driven into the ground. Also the way I slog canyons, I am likely to cut my shin open on the nasty iron bar pointed at an advantageous angle to take out my shin. I for one would be strongly against the angle iron anchor in canyons.

Burying a pot shot is better but still, it can't take a whole lot more time to bury a boulder. Some of the fun in canyons for me is to construct the stuff and figure out the problem with the least effect on a canyon using the available materials. There are some other good "ghosting" techniques using the potshots and retrieving them with pull cords. But burying them is and expensive anchor when a nice size/shaped free boulder will work.

I am not familiar with the term "dead man snow anchor" so others more wise and experienced will have to comment on that. Anchor building is one of the parts of the journey. To me canyoneering is not about racing through (unless it is monsoon season) but having the experience, including anchor building if need be.

[rockgremlin]

Ya, what Scott said. Most of the time, slinging a boulder or burying a large rock in the sand is unbelieveably secure. I know that "pile of rocks" that you rappel from out of Mindbender is a little unnerving, but trust me, it is pretty solid. There are other techniques out there (pickets, cams, pitons. etc), but the boulder sling/deadman methods are tried and trusted.

A little while ago, some friends and I constructed an anchor out of a bunch of rocks stacked in a pile on bare slickrock. We all rappelled from it, and it didn't budge an inch. If you run out of rocks in the immediate vicinity of the rappel, you can always go scavenging upcayon.

[rockgremlin]

Oh ya, and this is all coming from a guy who used to be very much pro-bolts. After I took Rich Carlson's natural anchoring workshop, and trying out natural anchors on my own, I was converted.

I would rather rap from a slinged boulder than a bolt any day, just because I don't know who placed those bolts, sandstone is brittle, and rockbolts don't last forever. One day those bolts will fail. I don't wanna be the guy who is on the receiving end of a bolt that fails mid-rappel.

[Scott P]

Whenever a canyoneer says to his or her canyoneering partner "this anchor looks bomber", it really means "you go first".

Just send your partner down first to see if it holds.

PS, just kidding.

I have to agree with the stake in the sand thing. I also don't see why it would hold any better than a deadman in the rocks.

[slim]

Yeah, you're right. I wasn't thinking of leaving that stuff in there. I agree, it would be a pretty trashy way to go. I was actually thinking of doing what I've done before and going BACK down to clean the route, ascending the ropes I left in place. I know, this doesn't work for everyone or every canyon for many reasons. Like having to take lots of rope and having to ascend the ropes (which I, personally enjoy doing but others may not) and taking lots more time. But it does have the advantages of getting to see the canyon twice and leaving it completely clean. Thanks for the feedback. Any more?

Mike

[utidcapaco]

This guy has some great ideas:
http://www.canyoneering.com/gear/tech_anchoring1.html

I like his use of dowels. While artificial, they are at ultimately biodegradable, and IMHO, leave a lower visual impact than a chunk of metal (bolt, piton, etc.).

[Scott Card]

Yeah, you're right. I wasn't thinking of leaving that stuff in there. I agree, it would be a pretty trashy way to go. I was actually thinking of doing what I've done before and going BACK down to clean the route, ascending the ropes I left in place. I know, this doesn't work for everyone or every canyon for many reasons. Like having to take lots of rope and having to ascend the ropes (which I, personally enjoy doing but others may not) and taking lots more time. But it does have the advantages of getting to see the canyon twice and leaving it completely clean. Thanks for the feedback. Any more?

Mike

A couple of other thoughts, my untrained thinking is that you will probably create more stress by a lot? by jugging back up the ropes than you do when rappelling. Point is, your anchors really need to be much stronger to withstand the jugging. I am sure you have probably thought this through but just a friendly reminder. If you are going to clean it afterwords, the stake is an interesting concept. I like utidcapico have also considered the dowel thing but have never used them. I am trying to conceptualize a releasable bar that you could extend from canyon wall to wall and then release it with a pull cord. Unfortunately, this sort of thing is not my forte.

[Iceaxe]

You should also check this out for more anchor ideas

Canyoneering Primer
http://climb-utah.com/Misc/natural.htm

I believe the ultimate goal every canyoneer should aspire to is be safe and "Leave No Trace".

:popcorn:

[slim]

A couple of other thoughts, my untrained thinking is that you will probably create more stress by a lot? by jugging back up the ropes than you do when rappelling. Point is, your anchors really need to be much stronger to withstand the jugging. I am sure you have probably thought this through but just a friendly reminder. If you are going to clean it afterwords, the stake is an interesting concept.

Yes, you are right. Jugging up a rope does generally add a large dynamic load to the rope. But, me personally, I would probably never (if I had an option) want to rappel from an anchor that I didn't feel was secure enough to ascend back up. It's easy to add a big dynamic load rappelling too if you're not perfectly smooth or if you get a rough start. So far, I've never rappeled from anything that, at least for me, wasn't considered bomb-proof. Like in Mind Bender, if you have enough rope, there are pretty much always nice big boulders to loop a sling around down low. Actually, at the very end just before that last little 10 foot deep pothole, there is a nice big rock but, at least without a tool to dig with, it was hard to get the sling low enough to keep it from wanting to slip off over the top. Since we weren't doing the big drop anyway we took turns holding the sling down while the others went down to look over the edge and say "Ooooo!" :nod:

[ratagonia]

Ideas:
Take down some two foot pieces of aluminum angle "iron", say 1inch, pointed on one end and a hammer (or use a rock). Drive them into the sand at a angle like a big tent stake. Tie to it below the surface level pulling horizontally. There are also quite a few situations I've seen in the canyons where there is a big rock partially buried in the sand but it's all roundy and has no where to hook a sling over that won't slip off. Seems like you could drive one of these stakes in the sand behind (and under) it just to keep the sling down. It would hardly have any load on it as the actual load would be taken by the rock.

Dig a hole in the sand and put a "Imlay Pot Shot" bag full of sand in the bottom and cover back up with sand with the sling coming out close to horizontal through the sand.

Use a "dead man" snow anchor in the sand.

The first idea is called a "Picket". Pickets can be used in Series - place a picket, then place a second picket several feet behind it, and tie the TOP of the first picket to the bottom of the second picket. Add pickets until you have enough holding power.

Notice that once you drive the picket in, leaving say 1' sticking up, that you want to pull on the picket at ground level or a little lower. If you pull from the top of the picket, it is much weaker.

So attach the retrieval cord to the top of the picket. Easier if you are using pickets in series, pull them out from the back. Might be hard to pull from below, but you can back up quite a ways and pull with more than one person. I like aluminum pickets rather than steel ones, as they feel somewhat better when they whack you in the head from 50 feet.

I like the idea of leaving the Potshots as sandbags. Would you like a price for a dozen?

But the sandbags can also be used in series. When the geometry is favorable (like in Mindbender), load the bag with sand, making it heavy enough to just do the job. Leave the top open. Attach retrieval line to the bottom. Pulling the retrieval line turns the bag over, dumping the sand.

You can also use the Potshots in series.

Tom

[Scott Card]

I like the idea of leaving the Potshots as sandbags. Would you like a price for a dozen?

Tom

:roflol: