The Maze

[R]

I've had my eye on The Maze since my first trip to Canyonlands in '02. I don't have a vehicle that would suffice, so I could either rent a Jeep or hook up with some Uutahers. I would like to go in the next year or two. Can anyone tell me what's involved? Is it just backpacking, or is there canyoneering out there too? What's best to see and do there? What are the roads like? What kinds of permits will we need? And finally, is it worth it?

I'm of a mind that I might bring my son, who is 14 now.

Thanks in advance. -Richard





http://richardbarron.net/galleries/sandanimals/canyneedles/Canyonlands-10.jpg

[asdf]

The maze is as remote as it gets. You have to bring in your gas and 4x4 is a must... http://www.naturalarches.org/gallery-UTmaze.htm
whos knows what else is out there.

Iceaxe..... have you been out there much? tell us a story or two. :popcorn:

[Scott P]

I don't have a vehicle that would suffice, so I could either rent a Jeep or hook up with some Uutahers.

A 4wd drive makes it easier to get around for sure. If you don't have one, you can still backpack down North Canyon. Or walk down the Flint and ener via Golden Stairs, but the Flint Trail is better to drive if you have a vehicle.


Is it just backpacking, or is there canyoneering out there too?

There is both non-technical backpacking as well as some good technical slot canyons.


What are the roads like?

The Maze Overlook Road is a typical 4wd road, not too rough, but requiring 4wd. Doll House Road is much rougher and slower and takes hours to get anywhere. Unless you are an off road enthusiast, the Maze Overlook is the perhaps the best way in, at least if you don't want to spend too much time in the vehicle. You can seriously drive to California from SLC faster than to the Doll House. Another great opeion is to park at the top of the Golden Stairs and hike in that way. Lot's of interesting country east after you hit the Doll House Road.


What kinds of permits will we need?

Permit from the park service. $30 for vehicle camping and $15 for backpacking.

[R]

Thanks for the info - that's exactly the kind of thing I need. Now..

Who wants to go with me? :nod:

[DiscGo]

Depending on when you do end up going, I would love to come. I'll be happy to drive. I just bought a Subaru Outback and I think it should make it. :mrgreen: I am trading my 4x4 jeep for an AWD outback. So far the awd is untested, but I'm sure I'll know by the time of that trip if it will work.

[Iceaxe]

I have only visited a small portion of The Maze from the river (Cateract Canyon), never by 4x4.

A couple years back there was and great article on the most remote location in the lower 48 states. The pin point was The Maze. The location was figure mathematically from a formula of nearest paved road , town, yada, yada..... wish I still had the article, it was really interesting.

As an interesting side note.... I was talking with a Canyonland ranger soon after the Aron Ralston accident. He mentioned that the Park had been slammed with folks wanting travel info for Bluejohn & Horseshoe Canyons. He said most hung up after he mentioned there were no improved campgrounds and the nearest restaurant and motel were at least 3 hours away over rough dirt roads.

:popcorn:

[asdf]

So you can dance around the edge ... or you can get right into it with a 4x4.

68 Miles from green river to the Hans Flat ranger station and the canyons of the Maze are another 3 to 6 hours by high-clearance 4WD.
There are no amenities like food or gas, no entrance fees and no potable water sources in the Maze District.
sounds like fun.

[R]

...he mentioned there were no improved campgrounds and the nearest restaurant and motel were at least 3 hours away over rough dirt roads.

:popcorn:

That sound like the kind of seclusion and escape I want. When I hiked at Guadalupe in November, on the Tejas trail I hiked six hours and never saw anyone else. It was bliss, and I want more.

[Iceaxe]

the Tejas trail I hiked six hours and never saw anyone else. It was bliss, and I want more.

Lots of places you can hike for 6 hours and see no one. In the Maze you can drive for six hours and see no one.

We'll drive by Hans Flat tomorrow on our way to do some canyons. I'm thinking tomorrow might be the most remote canyon I have done to date.

Just don't screw up.... because you are at least 5 hours from mediocre medical care.

:cool2:

[rockgremlin]

...he mentioned there were no improved campgrounds and the nearest restaurant and motel were at least 3 hours away over rough dirt roads.

:popcorn:

That sound like the kind of seclusion and escape I want. When I hiked at Guadalupe in November, on the Tejas trail I hiked six hours and never saw anyone else. It was bliss, and I want more.


There are NUMEROUS locations like this in Utah. I think if I could classify all of my canyoneering trips in the Swell, the Robber's Roost, and Capitol Reef areas according to how many people I bumped into on the trail, I'm guessing well over 90% of those trips would fall into the ZERO category. That's pretty miraculous considering that many of those trips were during holiday weekends.

[Scott P]

I just bought a Subaru Outback and I think it should make it.

No way an Outback will make the Doll House Road. I'm a proud Subaru owner, but can say it won't make it. It probably could make it down the Flint and to the Golden Staircase Trailhead. With much care it might make the Maze Overlook, but that's sort of pushing it, depending on conditions.

I was with someone who damaged their Ram Charger on the Doll House Road. I don't remember the exact amount, but the fee to get it out of there was around $5000. Not sure how they got it out, but the park service wouldn't let him leave it (teh towing fee was worth more than the vehicle).

[DiscGo]

No way an Outback will make the Doll House Road.

Thanks for the heads up Scott. I have never been out to the wave, so it is really helpful to know I'm better off not trying.

[asdf]

There are NUMEROUS locations like this in Utah.

Yes and No. From what I have read there is plenty of unexploded areas in the Maze.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/28/53875004_2e5869a866.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/33/53874183_a5b5664cf7.jpg
(not my pics, this guys http://www.flickr.com/photos/molas/ )

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/32/58778440_4e506159b1.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/96/213513336_8384ab9aeb_o.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/timloco/sets/1595727/with/58778440/

[R]

I had a feeling someone would chime in about the roads. The maps I have all warn about them. Still, it's a trip I'd like to make in the not distant future, not just for the solitude, but also because I've been to all the other sections of Canyonlands, and The Maze looks like it would be an epic splendor.

-Richard

[Udink]

I'm not a huge fan of national parks--I tend to stick to areas that don't charge for entry or require permits--but this thread has caused me to look at the Maze all day in Google Earth. I'd heard the name before, but didn't know anything about the area until today. I would love go to there, I'm sure my truck could handle the roads, and hopefully the dual fuel tanks and 10 extra gallons of diesel would be enough. I'm awfully tempted to go, whether on a trip of my own or tagging along with somebody else. You could get lost there and not even care. :nod:

[stefan]

I'm not a huge fan of national parks--I tend to stick to areas that don't charge for entry or require permits--but this thread has caused me to look at the Maze all day in Google Earth. I'd heard the name before, but didn't know anything about the area until today. I would love go to there, I'm sure my truck could handle the roads, and hopefully the dual fuel tanks and 10 extra gallons of diesel would be enough. I'm awfully tempted to go, whether on a trip of my own or tagging along with somebody else. You could get lost there and not even care. :nod:

it's considered one of the most remote areas in utah and the conterminous US. :2thumbs:

[JP]

So far the awd is untested, but I'm sure I'll know by the time of that trip if it will work.
Oh no, its been heavily tested :roflol:

http://www.swrt.com/img_gallery/483230090.jpg

http://www.swrt.com/img_gallery/422882995.jpg

[DiscGo]

JP-

Those are great subaru pictures. Now I'm ready to take flight with my outback :haha:

[erial]

i've been to the Maze twice. Both times i drove to the Hans Flat Ranger Station in a 2wd rental. From the nearby trailhead I believe it's about 12 mostly downhill or level miles to the bottom of the Maze. The last couple miles from the Overlook are the most adventurous. There is water and springs within the Maze and you can get down to the Colorado out by the Dollhouse formations and there's a trail that shoots off from the Flint in the direction of the Fins that leads to a cave where water flows from a pipe into a small stock tank. The Hans Flat Ranger should be able to point out these water locations on your topo map.

Once in the Maze you can follow social trails to the Harvest Scene, Chocolate Drops, The Plug, and to other landmarks.

Also near the ranger station is a good almost road side view of Millard Canyon. Nearby as well is the TH to the galleries in Horseshoe Canyon.

Lighten your load before returning to Hans Flat from the Maze because the hike will seem all uphill.

[Scott P]

I would love go to there, I'm sure my truck could handle the roads, and hopefully the dual fuel tanks and 10 extra gallons of diesel would be enough.

Speaking from experience, any full sized truck or SUV is h--- on the Doll House Road. Something small like a Wrangler, Tacoma, or Samurai, i.e. small and with a short wheelbase is ideal. Not that you couldn't do it, but is is definately a challenge with a full sized vehicle. On the rest of the roads in the Maze, a full size vehicle poses no problems.

[RedRoxx]

Been to the Maze with my Jeep 4 times. Love that country. Best car camp site IMO is Dollhouse 1 if it's windy, you're in between two sandstone towers with a great big flat "cooking" rock. If not windy and want views either the Wall or Maze Overlook.
I've hiked to the Green River overlook, down to Spanish Bottom to the Colorado and along that in Cataract, around Surprise Valley, the loop from Chimney Rock to the Harvest Scene. Haven't done anything in Ernies' Country in the Fins but that is also on "the list".
Shot and Water canyons are nice.

The roads-- Flint trail is slow and better suited to short WB vehicle but I have seen full size pickups come up it. In from Hite is not bad until you get past Teapot rock. Some rock crawling of a mild nature in there, then gets good again until you get past Chimney Rock then some rocky sections and deep sand right before the Doll House area.
I saw a small pickup back at Dollhouse 2 one time, pretty low clearance. And I've seen a tow truck from Hite coming in to get a guy who busted his oil pan near Teapot. Bet that cost a bunch.

Anyhow, fabulous country to walk in and photograph. The rangers do check for permits, and last time I was there I didn't see their Jeep, one of them was driving a stock Chevy Blazer 4X4.

[brettyb]

No way an Outback will make the Doll House Road.

Thanks for the heads up Scott. I have never been out to the wave, so it is really helpful to know I'm better off not trying.

Is there another "the wave" in the Maze? If not, you might be mixed up. "The Wave", the quite famous one that gets mentioned here regularly (aka Coyote Buttes North), is far away just outside the GS-E NM, b/w Kanab and Page.

[tuffchuck2000]

We stayed the night near Hans Flat and went down the flint trail to the Dollhouse the next day. We were in a Jeep Grand Cherokee and I would not suggest anything with lower clearance and a good spotter. We did not see another car highway to highway (exited near hite) The hans flat register said the last people to have been there was 2 weeks before us. (this was in june) We did however see some other people, but it was okay, we scared them away. By the time you get to the dollhouse there is not much of a road left and there were some people that had climbed up from the river to look back up the canyon. When they saw a Jeep driving through the desert blasting Skankin Pickle they headed back down to the river and we were left alone again. I could just picture their guide telling them that this was the most remote spot in the lower 48 only to have a jeep come driving down the wash at them blasting music. Anyways, I second the all day driving comments, it is a long drive and not for the faint of heart.

[Cirrus2000]

Speaking from experience, any full sized truck or SUV is h--- on the Doll House Road.

I really need to know, Scott: What does the "h---" stand for in this sentence? I've been running over the possibilities in my head all week, and just can't come up with anything rude enough to justify blanking out the letters... I suppose that aitch-ee-double-hockey-sticks might be it, but I'd think you could easily have said "heck"...

Please, I'm dying to know! I've been looking into 4-letter H words on UrbanDictionary.com (http://www.urbandictionary.com/), and so far I've come up with these possibilities:

Hado - Supa leet ninja type dude. Commonly Associated with the online game, World Of Warcraft.

hane - Where the sack meets the shaft.

harf - Another word for puke or vomit.

hojo - Another word for receiving penile gratification via the hand.


I haven't discovered a shoo-in, but these all seem somewhat plausible... :popcorn:

[JP]

Hell :ne_nau: That's just what came to mind :popcorn: Hellish :ne_nau:

[denaliguide]

you can get your outback down flint trail but i dont know about up it again. plus theres a bit of a clay hill the road traverses going south of the junction in section 36 down to the trail into the land of standing rocks. when wet its slippery. camping at the top of the golden stairs is awesome. best bet is to save the vehicle and walk from north trail canyon. do the maze then what we did was exit at the top of the maze and hiked up the flint trail and walked/hitched back to the car. actually got a ride too. surprise. look for the harvest scene in the maze! you should go out to the end of north point and camp at panorama point. it has the best view looking south into the maze. outback would have no problem getting there. also cleopatras chair is near there. i may be there in the end of april if you are interested.

[DiscGo]

How far should I plan on hiking if I am not driving down?

[R]

you can get your outback down flint trail but i dont know about up it again. plus theres a bit of a clay hill the road traverses going south of the junction in section 36 down to the trail into the land of standing rocks. when wet its slippery. camping at the top of the golden stairs is awesome. best bet is to save the vehicle and walk from north trail canyon. do the maze then what we did was exit at the top of the maze and hiked up the flint trail and walked/hitched back to the car. actually got a ride too. surprise. look for the harvest scene in the maze! you should go out to the end of north point and camp at panorama point. it has the best view looking south into the maze. outback would have no problem getting there. also cleopatras chair is near there. i may be there in the end of april if you are interested.

Does this involve backpacking to camp in the backcountry for one or more nights, or are these day hikes based at North Point and/or Panorama Point?

-Richard

[denaliguide]

hiking in from the north trail canyon is about 12 or 13 miles to where you drop into tne maze. then you can spend 3 to 5 days in the maze exploring the different side canyons. if you get out of the maze and head towards to dollhouse make sure you can carry plenty of water.

panorama point is a great place to camp and photograph the sunset and sunrise over the maze, not much real backpacking out there. cleopatra is pretty photogenic too. there is also a 5.6 route up it for the cimbers out there.

the maze hike is a backpack requiring several nights camping out. unless you have a vehicle that can get you to the trailhead either at the top or bottom of the maze. if you dont like the idea of the flint trail you can also access from the road between the white river and the dirty devil. it's considerablely easier. almost 2WD until you get to teapot rock. then the road gets worse and 4WD is required. there are several trails that you can use to access the maze from there. you also can get to the doll house area and ernies country from there. the only place that i can think of that might be more remote than this area is the escalante country.

carry lots of water, sources are not all convienently located. you can get info about springs from the rangers at hans flat. gary cox has been the ranger there for years. there is no water from the trailhead at the top of north trail canyon until you drop down into the maze. i left with 9 liters when i did it in case i had to dry camp.

[R]

Thanks for the info. I'm still just in the pondering stages at this point, but The Maze seems very interesting and compelling to me.

[Scott P]

you can get your outback down flint trail but i dont know about up it again.

I think you could when dry but you would have to rev your motor like heck. If the road is in good condition you may be able to come out Hite after going down the Flint (therefore you wouldn't have to go up it). I've seen that road in good enough condition for a Subaru, but on the other hand I've seen it in bad condition too where there is no way. Talk to the rangers for current conditions. If the road is good you could get to the Golden Stairs and hike Ernies Country from there. If bad, don't try it.

[denaliguide]

now that i think about it some more, the san juan county road crew blades the road into the maze from hite to teapot rock and up to the bottom of the flint trail. they do this maybe once a year. i think just to piss off the sierra club and the SUWA.

[gonzo]

i think just to piss off the sierra club and the SUWA.

That's not even a challenge. I bet I could piss off both of them from my desk chair at work.

Anyway, now I'm intrigued. I want to go down to The Maze, too.

[R]

We have got to make this happen. :nod:

[kris]

I too am very interested in this area.

Anyone foresee major issues with the area during late March? I am going to try and contact the ranger station down there, if they are even open yet.

[marc olivares]

I too am very interested in this area.

Anyone foresee major issues with the area during late March? I am going to try and contact the ranger station down there, if they are even open yet.


no, you'll be fine

Hans Flats ranger station is open year round.
but you need to contact the Canyonlands Backcountry desk to reserve permits
435-259-4351

[asdf]

I too am very interested in this area.

Anyone foresee major issues with the area during late March? I am going to try and contact the ranger station down there, if they are even open yet.

Where ever you end up going post some pics and a trip report. :2thumbs:

[Scott P]

Anyone foresee major issues with the area during late March?

The Ranger station is open year round, but the Flint Trail is often closed until around April 1 or so. It varies year to year. The top of the Flint is actually over 7000 feet and shaded.

[Brewhaha]

For you folks that are experts on the Maze or experts on the Tacoma. I am wondering if a Toyota Tacoma (V6 4x4) could make it into the Doll House?

[Scott P]

I am wondering if a Toyota Tacoma (V6 4x4) could make it into the Doll House?

Yes.

[kris]

Anyone foresee major issues with the area during late March?

The Ranger station is open year round, but the Flint Trail is often closed until around April 1 or so. It varies year to year. The top of the Flint is actually over 7000 feet and shaded.


Thanks for the tips.

We have decided to head out to the maze the on the 22-26th of march. I hope the weather will cooperate.