Getting Started

[DiscGo]

One of my goals for 07 is to pick up Canyoneering. I do not really know what I should expect in cost or where to really begin. I do not really know anyone who canyoneers so I will largely be just picking things up as I go along.

If any of you have any advice of what gear I need, where to buy it, and just where to start, I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

[Scott Card]

Gear (assmuing you are with experienced folks who own rope)

Helmet
Harness
Rap device (I prefer an ATC or Piranaha by Petzl)
Day pack (Go cheap 'cause you will be hammering it)
3-4 locking biners
webbing to donate to replacing at anchor points.
daisy chain or two
a few slings of varying lengths. I would guess you could pick up this stiff for around $250.00 total, give or take.

Now the caveat. The gear is canyon or area specific and for various difficulties/challenges in the canyon you may need different gear eg. pot shots, hooks, loooong slings, ascenders, wet suits/dry suits, knee pads...etc. In other words, some canyons are pretty straight forward and do not require the specialized gear. Others require the right stuff or they could be deadly. Also, gear needs vary with skill level, or, your ability to down climb, up climb, tred water :lol8:, work the ropes and knots and anchors.

I'd try to hook up with some folks and go and see what you think. Tom Jones has some great festivals and he encourages new comers. Also, Tom has designed great gear and has just about everything at CanyoneeringUSA.com.

[Scott Card]

Add gloves to the list...

Shane has a good discussion and list at Climb-utah.com (but I can't find it now - help please Shane) and Tom Jones has a list at Canyoneeringusa.com and at the very top of the page click on "canyoneering guide" and then click introduction ... or better yet, go to http://canyoneeringusa.com/utah/intro/ Hope this helps get you started.

[rockgremlin]

My advice is go light on the gear until you know what you're getting into. You might go out and buy a bunch of gear, and do a few canyons and later find out that canyoneering isn't really your thing. I started out canyoneering with tennis shoes, a tee-shirt, swimming suit trunks, and a light camelback. No helmet, no special pack, no ropes, no harness.....nothing. But, the more canyons I did, the more intrigued I was by them, and the more willing I was to plunk down the coin for special (as well as required) canyoneering gear.

Second bit of advice - go with someone who is experienced to start. That way, you don't get into too much trouble, and you can learn quite a bit about techniques and safety. Last year Shane and I did an "Adopt-a-noob" canyoneering weekend, and it was a whole lot of fun. We had about three or four genuine newbies show up, and we did a few very fun canyons. We have lightly discussed doing it again this year at least once. You should join us this year.

[Iceaxe]

Scott gave you some good advice, except I would skip the daisy chain's for now and just use a sling or webbing when required. You will also be adding a full wet suit shortly if you like the sport. Probably pick up a 3/2 full at Sportsmen's Warehouse for about $50.

Canyoneering Gear Recommendations (http://climb-utah.com/Misc/gear.htm) - Read the recommendations and then feel free to ask questions.

Watch the forum for trips where noob's are welcome. Noob's can make themselves more welcome by offering to drive, provide 1/2 of required car shuttles, offering to cook dinner, offering to carry ropes, offering to pick up permits.... in other words.... make yourself useful.

:rockon:

[tanya]

One of my goals for 07 is to pick up Canyoneering. I do not really know what I should expect in cost or where to really begin. I do not really know anyone who canyoneers so I will largely be just picking things up as I go along.

If any of you have any advice of what gear I need, where to buy it, and just where to start, I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

Most important is a good partner. Beg Ice to go with him --- and take lots of photos. :popcorn:

[DiscGo]

Thank you all so much for your assistance. I feel very confident that this will be helpful to get me going.


Last year Shane and I did an "Adopt-a-noob"... You should join us this year.

I would love that! Thank you for the invitation!


Thank you guys very much




Canyoneering Gear Recommendations (http://climb-utah.com/Misc/gear.htm) - Read the recommendations and then feel free to ask questions.


That link is very helpful. Thanks.



Watch the forum for trips where noob's are welcome. Noob's can make themselves more welcome by offering to drive, provide 1/2 of required car shuttles, offering to cook dinner, offering to carry ropes, offering to pick up permits.... in other words.... make yourself useful.

:rockon:

That really is helpful to have a list of some ideas to help pull my weight. I really appreciate it.




Beg Ice to go with him --- and take lots of photos.

If I could convince Ice to go with me, I think he would just make fun of Ohio State the whole time. :haha:

[tanya]

Watch the forum for trips where noob's are welcome. Noob's can make themselves more welcome by offering to drive, provide 1/2 of required car shuttles, offering to cook dinner, offering to carry ropes, offering to pick up permits.... in other words.... make yourself useful.

:rockon:

I wonder what the females have to do to go with you. :twisted: :naughty:

[Iceaxe]

I wonder what the females have to do to go with you. :twisted: :naughty:

Just talk dirty to me :lol8:

:2thumbs:

[DiscGo]

Just talk dirty to me :lol8:

:2thumbs:

I'm not a girl, but I'll do what needs to be done to come with you sometime :haha: (I may have over shot that innuendo a little more than I meant)

[KillEmAll]

Just talk dirty to me :lol8:

:2thumbs:

I'm not a girl, but I'll do what needs to be done to come with you sometime :haha: (I may have over shot that innuendo a little more than I meant)

Uh oh, this thread has inadvertently turned...

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w172/camrontucker/Blog%20Junk/gay1.jpg

[Scott Card]

My advice is go light on the gear until you know what you're getting into. You might go out and buy a bunch of gear, and do a few canyons and later find out that canyoneering isn't really your thing. I started out canyoneering with tennis shoes, a tee-shirt, swimming suit trunks, and a light camelback. No helmet, no special pack, no ropes, no harness.....nothing.

Ya.....but.....I must be old..... I wasn't as daring to go start this hobby without some stuff, and I like my melon as is so I got a helmet. I guess I had to have stuff cause I started in Zion. Pretty hard to do any real canyoneering without a harness, etc. Further, no place I know of rents harnesses. Also, not many folks want to lend harnesses. Many don't have extras or don't want their stuff trashed by others. Many are willing to take others out but the expense of the trip and providing all the equipment passes the pain threshold for most. I would agree with Shane that you could eliminate the daisy chains but the polite thing when going with others is to have your own harness, rap device, helmet, pack and a bit if extra webbing and biners to help contribute. Also as Ice suggested offer to assist with driving, pay some gas, bring some food, in other words help out.




Second bit of advice - go with someone who is experienced to start. That way, you don't get into too much trouble, and you can learn quite a bit about techniques and safety. Last year Shane and I did an "Adopt-a-noob" canyoneering weekend, and it was a whole lot of fun. We had about three or four genuine newbies show up, and we did a few very fun canyons. We have lightly discussed doing it again this year at least once. You should join us this year.

I too have taken a bunch of new folks out. It is fun if they have a good attitude and it doesn't cost too much in the end. I always tell them that they are welcome to come but they must have a harness and rap device at the minimum. I'd really like them to have a helmet so I don't have to worry about their head too. I have hiked and fished and been outdoors much of my life but I didn't discover canyoneering until 7ish years ago and I was immediately hooked. I have been a gear junkie canyoneer ever since. I think I have only fished 1 time since I started canyoneering. It just is not as much fun to me as canyoneering and my time away from home is limited so I easily chose canyoneering. :nod:

[DiscGo]

I already have harnesses and rope from rock climbing. Do I need a different type of harness for canyoneering?

[DiscGo]

Never mind. I just read the part on Climb-Utah about any harness working.

[Iceaxe]

I already have harnesses and rope from rock climbing.

If you have done some rock climbing you already have the basic skill set required to go canyoneering. You just need to tag along a couple of times to gain a solid base to start from.

There are some really hard canyons around, but for the most part the sport is just hiking, swimming and sliding down ropes.

:2thumbs:

[Cirrus2000]

I already have harnesses and rope from rock climbing.

If you have done some rock climbing you already have the basic skill set required to go canyoneering. You just need to tag along a couple of times to gain a solid base to start from.

Also depends on the type of climbing you've done, I would guess, and particularly how you are on rappel. If you've not really done any rappeling, then it might be good experience to practise that a bit. It's scary how easy it is to screw up a rappel system, whether it's in a life threatening way, or just a "I can't get my rope back!" way.

This coming from a (so far!) non-canyoneer, so lots of salt is required.

[tanya]

I wonder what the females have to do to go with you. :twisted: :naughty:

Just talk dirty to me :lol8:

:2thumbs:


Would you like that in the group or in private? :naughty:

[bruce from bryce]

with some climbing background at least you may know how to rappel and not have to learn hooked to the back of a truck like I did when Shane 'allowed' me to accompany him into Pine Creek. My first rappel was 4 feet and at the middle switchback in Zion.

[chapin]

advice for a noob from a relative noob:

Getting Experience:

You can learn everything you need to by getting lucky enough to do a canyon or three with some of the more experienced people on and off this board.

That said, take the three day ACA class (canyoneering.net). Because you pay a (nominal) fee to take the class, and the instructor is there just to teach, you feel absolutely comfortable asking endless dumb questions. And, the instructor feels absolutely comfortable telling you when you're doing something dumb. Rich, especially. Very, very skilled at telling you when you're doing something dumb and about to kill yourself or others.

This isn't to say that you can't learn from just meeting people on this board, but I think it's just good form to show up for a recreational trip with a few basic skills (handling your own business, finding, evaluating, and rigging basic anchors) under your belt.

Then, when you join up with people, you don't end up feeling like a freeloader. Case in point: I went to a Tom's Fest last summer, and did mystery with the emperor himself. Afterwards, he pronounced me "not a danger to others" (which i took to be high praise) and invited me to do imlay. Probably wouldn't have happened if I hadn't taken the ACA class the previous summer--and I learned a hell of a lot. I'd still call myself a novice, but i'm a housebroken novice.

Also: don't ever misrepresent your experience, comfort, or fitness level. I've been stuck in a skinny little stemming canyon with someone who fibbed, got in over his/her head, and it just wasn't cool, especially when people who thought they were on vacation ended up spending a long day babysitting.

Equipment:

Advice above perfect if you tag along informally. If you take an ACA class, put off buying everything except the harness and helmet. You can make more informed decisions about how to spend your money after you've tried a variety of loaner gear. And sticky approach shoes are nifty.

And when you do buy, buy from tom (canyoneeringusa.com guy). Not only is he nice and organizes lots of superawesome free fests, but it's really scary to ride up the mt. carmel tunnel switchbacks in his f'd up old civic. It would benefit the canyoneering community at large if he could get a new car.

chapin from brooklyn

[DiscGo]

Chapin- I notice that is your first post. Are you actually Tom campaigning for your own new car? :haha: Your comment really was helpful. Thanks for the advice. I'll look in to it now.

[shaggy125]

I always have to echo a suggestion to take the ACA class, Rich is about as good a teacher as you can ask for, if they offered a Doctorates in ropework, Rich would have one. It was the best 2 hundred and whatever dollars I ever spent.

Eric.

[Win]

I decided that I want to give it a try, too. I was put in contact with an experienced climber/canyoneer and thru his employer I did a one on one class about a month ago. We spent several hours in the shop and then went out and did a small canyon with some good rappels and other obstacles. Back to the shop for some more tech stuff. Gotta say it was sensory overload, I learned a whole bunch but not putting it into practice until Spring will have me forget alot.

I'll be picking up a lot of gear and will go out and do some practice but I can't wait to do a few canyons. I'll be going on a few guided trips and then hopefully will be able to hook up with some of you.

This has been a good informative thread, thanks for starting it.

Win

[neumannbruce]

The University of Utah offers Outreach classes for Canyoneering and Climbing. A different alternative to the ACA option. Not certain how they differ - or the substance they offer, but something worth looking into for the SLCer's.

[tanya]

The University of Utah offers Outreach classes for Canyoneering and Climbing. A different alternative to the ACA option. Not certain how they differ - or the substance they offer, but something worth looking into for the SLCer's.


There is also the Ponderosa on the East Rim of Zion and Zion Rock Guides and Zion Adventure Company in Springdale as well. All are fun programs. I hate classroom types things (after getting my MS and almost my PHD -- I dont want anymore school!!!!) so I would opt for one of these than the other classes.... but some of you still may still be gluttens for punishment. ACA and SUU are both excellent. :popcorn:

[chapin]

never posted because i felt like too much of a noob to contribute anything of value...but now, it seems, that there are noobs noobier than i, which makes me feel like less of a noob. thanks for boosting my noob ego!

photographic proof that i am not tom:

http://uutah.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2953&start=0

there are three bald guys. i'm the youngest, and arguably the least bald. at least, that's my argument.

[Iceaxe]

The University of Utah offers Outreach classes for Canyoneering and Climbing. A different alternative to the ACA option. Not certain how they differ - or the substance they offer, but something worth looking into for the SLCer's.

I've canyoneered with the instructors and students of the University of Utah canyoneering program and I considered it very valuable (but this was 5 years ago, so things might have changed). They teach more teamwork and less nuts and bolts. The U of U also teach more of a group effort and less of a leader/follower approach, which is actually more the situation we find ourselves in when canyoneering with friends. It's a little different approach and skill set then most other canyoneering classes offer. But they helped fill my bag of tricks with skills I had not seen before.

Zion Adventure Company, ACA and Zion Rock all offer canyoneering courses.

I have always liked the idea of the ZAC Keyhole Ground School. It's a nice way to get your feet wet. And see if you enjoy the sport without a major investment.

Keyhole Ground School
http://www.zionadventures.com/the_keyhole_ground_school.html

:cool2:

[icthys]

Second bit of advice - go with someone who is experienced to start. That way, you don't get into too much trouble, and you can learn quite a bit about techniques and safety. Last year Shane and I did an "Adopt-a-noob" canyoneering weekend, and it was a whole lot of fun. We had about three or four genuine newbies show up, and we did a few very fun canyons. We have lightly discussed doing it again this year at least once. You should join us this year.

These guys were great to take me and another member out. I had a great time and learned alot by actually putting the skills and techniques into action. I didn't mind carrying the rope or making dinner and would do it again without being asked.

Gear wise here's a few things I am doing different next time. My day hiking boots worked fine but I'd rather have a lighter not so bulky shoe. The boots I had weren't bad and I'd use them again but something different would have been nice. I'm taking a bigger pack. The one I had was just under 1000 cubic in and wasn't enough, I'm going bigger next time and with something that will carry the rope much easier. I used my hands alot, probably because I don't have the techniques down to use my hands less. They got fairly beat up and I had to borrow some gloves for the last half of the canyon. I also learned a simple harness is all you need.

[stefan]

Chapin- I notice that is your first post. Are you actually Tom campaigning for your own new car? :haha: Your comment really was helpful. Thanks for the advice. I'll look in to it now.

nope, tom's not the kind of person to do that sort of thing ... i believe they are called sock puppets ... many consider this trollish behavior.

while you're likely joking here, your comment is jumping to conclusions, which i should say is inconsiderate, both to tom jones and to chapin. i guess all i am saying is that we know sock puppets exists (cough ... angel et al.) but perhaps it's best not to speculate without good evidence.

i would like to point out that tom jones is one of the few people who designs/constructs/sells canyoneering-specific gear. this is his business and it's small. and many folks like to provide additional support for his business by plugging his products ... especially because they are so good, functional and apt.

[DiscGo]

while you're likely joking here, your comment is jumping to conclusions, which i should say is inconsiderate, both to tom jones and to chapin. i guess all i am saying is that we know sock puppets exists (cough ... angel et al.) but perhaps it's best not to speculate without good evidence.
.

Stefan- I know we have disagreed politically, but you think too low of me. I was clearly just joking. I put the chuckling icon and was sincere in thanking him for his suggestion.

[stefan]

while you're likely joking here, your comment is jumping to conclusions, which i should say is inconsiderate, both to tom jones and to chapin. i guess all i am saying is that we know sock puppets exists (cough ... angel et al.) but perhaps it's best not to speculate without good evidence.
.

Stefan- I know we have disagreed politically, but you think too low of me. I was clearly just joking. I put the chuckling icon and was sincere in thanking him for his suggestion.

i DID indicate that you were likely joking, but i was only making a statement about this, and your inference was not my intention.

[rockgremlin]

Tom already posts on here as "ratagonia." I doubt he would go to the trouble to develop another username.

While I like the idea of a canyoneering class, I still believe that going with others who are aware that you are a noob is the best and cheapest option. Nothing beats real-world, hands-on experience. $250 is a lot of jack to throw down for some skills that you could easily learn with others who are willing to teach you for free.

Don't misunderstand, I think very highly of Rich Carlson and his classes, but they are expensive! I would however, highly endorse his free natural anchoring workshop. I took it a few years ago, and learned a lot.

[Iceaxe]

Chapin- I notice that is your first post. Are you actually Tom campaigning for your own new car? :haha:

I knew GolfDiscDrivers was making a joke and I think everyone else knew it also..... I would say more but my lawyer has advised against it.

**This post neither represents nor reflects the opinions of Climb-Utah.com (http://www.climb-utah.com) management. These statements may or may not be true. Ice has been known to be full of crap.

:popcorn:

[stefan]

shane-dawg ... i really enjoyed your photos from the subway. you got any more cool photos you'd like to share with us?
perhaps entice the appetite of discgolf and sherpatom.

could start a canyoneering photo thread or something ...

[Iceaxe]

could start a canyoneering photo thread or something ...

Done deal....

Best of 2006 Canyoneering
http://uutah.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=42231

:popcorn:

[Scott Card]

I hate classroom types things (after getting my MS and almost my PHD -- I dont want anymore school!!!!)

Amazing how you did all that by the 8th grade.... :lol8:

[tanya]

I hate classroom types things (after getting my MS and almost my PHD -- I dont want anymore school!!!!)

Amazing how you did all that by the 8th grade.... :lol8:


:oops: You made my day :nod:


I actually quit school in 8th grade --- so I had a bit of energy left for classrooms, but enough is enough. No more school for me of any kind!

[Iceaxe]

No more school for me of any kind!

For Valentines I hear your hubby is getting you a gift certificate to the "Ice School of Wife Training" :lol8:

http://uutah.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2418

:roflol:

[tanya]

No more school for me of any kind!

For Valentines I hear your hubby is getting you a gift certificate to the "Ice School of Wife Training" :lol8:

http://uutah.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2418

:roflol:


1. Silence, the Final Frountier: Where No Woman Has Gone Before
Just telling you how sexy and awesome you are of course... and some heavy moaning. :haha:


2. The Undiscovered Side of Banking: Making Deposits
I never see my paycheck. He deals with it. :ne_nau:

3. Parties: Going Without New Outfits
Always let a man choose the outfit! If it's new, then its your choice. :five:

4. Man Management: Minor Household Chores Can Wait Till After The Game
For sure! Beer, sports and sex is all that matters!

5. Bathroom Etiquette I: Men Need Space in the Bathroom Cabinet Too.
Better yet. You need your own bathroom.

6. Bathroom Etiquette II: His Razor is His
See above

7. Communication Skills I: Tears - The Last Resort, not the First.
I hate tears!!!!

8. Communication Skills II: Thinking Before Speaking
I need to work on this one BAD! Otherwise I never would have answered this post. :lol8:

9. Communication SKills III: gettings What you Want Withouth Nagging
Yes, sex works much better! What does a woman want besides a good man anyway?

10. Driving a Car Safely: A Skill You CAN Acquire
:mrgreen: I might need work on this. You noticed that I let you drive at the Bistro. :lol8:

11. Telephone Skills: How to Hang Up
I never even pickup!

12. Introduction to Parking
No need where I live. :nod:

13. Advanced Parking: Backing into a Space
:mrgreen:

14. Water Retention: Fact or Fat
:mrgreen:

15. Cooking I: Bringing Back Bacon, Eggs and Butter
I don't cook.

16. Cooking II: Bran and Tofu are Not for Human Consumption
I agree!

17. Cooking III: How not to Inflict Your Diets on Other People
Yes!

18. Compliments: Accepting Them Gracefully
:twisted:

19. PMS: Your Problem ... Not His
:cool2:

20. Dancing: Why Men Don't Like To
This is where we clash!!!!!!! I love dancing!!!!

21. Classic Clothing: Wearing Outfits You Already Have
:2thumbs:

22. Household Dust: A Harmless Natural Occrrence Only Women Notice
:2thumbs:

23. Integrating Your Laundry: Washing it All Together
:2thumbs:

24. Oil and Gas: Your Car Needs Both
:mrgreen:

25. TV Remotes: For Men Only
Who needs the remotes. I can walk. :mrgreen:

When do we start!!!! :nod: Warning..... I don't listen to a thing.... You might have to physically show me. :cool2:

[ratagonia]

I already have harnesses and rope from rock climbing. Do I need a different type of harness for canyoneering?

After you use your climbing harness a couple times, you will notice it is getting beat up. After using it a little more, you will not want to use it for climbing again, thus giving you an excuse to buy a new climbing harness.

Your climbing rope is not very good in a canyon, but will work for your first one or two. Canyoning will also ruin your rope for lead climbing.

If you don't have a helmet, you should get one of those first. Many people will not take noobs that do not have a helmet. (Many people = me).

Also on your early list is a good drybag, like the POE 25L. The short list is: Helmet, harness, rappel biners (3), rappel device, over-the-shoulder slings (4), drybag. You can use a pack from the back of your closet (it will get clobbered). You really should have gloves to protect your hands, but many people go without. The rest of the gear is more like 'group gear' that your leader will bring along.

Tom

[ratagonia]

One of my goals for 07 is to pick up Canyoneering. I do not really know what I should expect in cost or where to really begin. I do not really know anyone who canyoneers so I will largely be just picking things up as I go along.

If any of you have any advice of what gear I need, where to buy it, and just where to start, I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

I'm coming in a few days late on this thread, but here's a little story for you, about "climber's going canyoneering".

Q and A find trouble

Q and A had done some climbing, so this canyoneering stuff shouldn't be too hard. They chose a trip of modest technical difficulty - good. Perhaps they passed over the part about the navigation being somewhat difficult, or perhaps they thought their map reading skills were sufficient. That they did not really know what the brown squiggly lines really meant was discovered somewhat later.

They did pretty well, actually, making it down to, then across the Left Fork and up to the Left/Right Pass. And over the other side... when navigation fatigue took over and they stopped following the instructions. Hey, here's a canyon, it's the right canyon, let's follow this! So they did.

After sliding down some non-reversible little drops, they realized they were not in the right place. Soon they came to a drop, with no bolted anchor. They didn't know if their rope was long enough, or how to rig the rappel. Three days later, the Park Service pulled their sorry derrieres out of there.

A wrote up the story for me, and we chatted about it, and did a little map training that fall. Next year, I found myself in that section of canyon for the first time. They had said that MAYBE they could have used the tree for an anchor, but it was sketchy, and their rope probably was not long enough. I imagined a skinny little tree sticking out of a crack in the wall, etc.

What I had not realized was that Q and A had done a "little" climbing and had rappelled a couple of times. Or maybe just been lowered through the chains, which is the same thing, right? We romped through this very nice canyon section, and came to the difficult drop. We looked around for the questionable tree anchor - and could not find it. There was only this 3-foot diameter, 100 foot long Ponderosa log perfectly positioned over the drop. We tossed the rope over it and - How long is the rappel? Canyon geometry can be hard to figure out. It looked long. We set up our 200 foot rope single line and dropped the ropebag, pull cord in the pack if needed. It wasn't. 60 feet tops. Certainly short enough that Q and A's 165' rope would have made it doubled over. No fancy stuff.

Lessons? Some people are really not that good at figuring stuff out. Follow all the directions, not just the first part. If you want to know how long the drop is, put a rope on it. The brown squiggly lines are... well, if you don't know what the brown squiggly lines are, you don't know how to read a topo map. Don't be a beginner led by a beginner.

Tom

[DiscGo]

Tom-

Thank you responding to my question. One of the reasons I have held off on canyoneering is the cost, so I don't think I will be taking your course, but I really have heard a lot of good things about you and have nothing but respect for you.
Chapin made a comment campaigning for a new vehicle for you and I made a joke that about you creating an account to suggest a new car for yourself. I really hope that it is understood that I did not think you were actually doing that, and again even though I do not know you, I have visited several of your websites I do have a lot of respect for you. I hope there are no hard feelings.




Your climbing rope is not very good in a canyon, but will work for your first one or two. Canyoning will also ruin your rope for lead climbing.


Is there a specific canyoneering rope that will do better in the canyons?

[price1869]

Is there a specific canyoneering rope that will do better in the canyons?

Any static rope will do. 9mm is best in most cases. 8mm is nice if you have to pack the rope a long way. Tom's canyoneering rope is nice, but personally, I like the orange bluewater rope.

[DiscGo]

Any static rope will do. 9mm is best in most cases. 8mm is nice if you have to pack the rope a long way. Tom's canyonering rope is nice, but personally, I like the orange bluewater rope.

Thanks Price

[ratagonia]

Tom-

Thank you responding to my question. One of the reasons I have held off on canyoneering is the cost, so I don't think I will be taking your course, but I really have heard a lot of good things about you and have nothing but respect for you.
Chapin made a comment campaigning for a new vehicle for you and I made a joke that about you creating an account to suggest a new car for yourself. I really hope that it is understood that I did not think you were actually doing that, and again even though I do not know you, I have visited several of your websites I do have a lot of respect for you. I hope there are no hard feelings.

Is there a specific canyoneering rope that will do better in the canyons?

No offense taken by me, but I also love it when my homies jump in to wave my flag. I don't think you'll be taking my course either, since I don't offer courses. I do, however, support the courses offered by the ACA and ACA-certified guide services, plus ZAC and ZRock. And I do need a new car, although that head-gasket/valve job a month after Chapin's visit did my buggy a world of good.

Ropes will be on sale for the next two weeks - a good time to pick one up. The Bluewater ropes are good, but I like mine better. http://www.canyoneeringusa.com

Tom

[Iceaxe]

No offense taken by me, but I also love it when my homies jump in to wave my flag.

I'll jump in a pimp Tom's gear. I like his ropes and I think they are the best value around. I prefer his 8mm rope. I just wish it was available in orange or bright red because that looks hot in photographs.

:rockon:

[Scott Card]

No offense taken by me, but I also love it when my homies jump in to wave my flag.

I'll jump in a pimp Tom's gear. I like his ropes and I think they are the best value around. I prefer his 8mm rope. I just wish it was available in orange or bright red because that looks hot in photographs.

:rockon:

Ice beat me to the Imlay Canyon Gear pimping punch. I have both the orange Bluewater ropes and Tom's Imlay 8mm rope. Tom's rope is the best bang for the buck in my humble opinion. About half(?) the price and it is tough. I don't feel quite so bad dragging the rope over sandstone cause it is not as much coin as the Bluewater rope. Don't get me wrong, I started with the Bluewater rope and still use them but as they wear out I am replacing them with Tom's rope and I have been very pleased with the durability. Also, the POE drybags simply cannot be beat (also available on Tom's site (Canyoneeringusa.com)) First dry bag I've owned that didn't leak! :2thumbs:

[shaggy125]

Yea the bluewaters are good, but Tom's are good too. I'd go with whichever you get the best deal on. Tom has lots of really great gear if you want to get more into it, his packs and rope bags are awesome. I have a 100 ft. 9mm and a 200 ft. 8mm from Tom, I really like them, they have held strong through quite a few canyons and they are cheap considering.

[ratagonia]

Yea the bluewaters are good, but Tom's are good too. I'd go with whichever you get the best deal on. Tom has lots of really great gear if you want to get more into it, his packs and rope bags are awesome. I have a 100 ft. 9mm and a 200 ft. 8mm from Tom, I really like them, they have held strong through quite a few canyons and they are cheap considering.

Thanks Gentlemen, and Shane.

And they WILL have twice as much color this year, starting with the next shipment.

Tom

[Scott Card]

Thanks Gentlemen, and Shane.



:roflol:

[Scout Master]

I have 4 x-tra harnesses, 2 ropes a bunch of beners, belay devices and webbing I am happy to share all I need is a ride. Oh yes and I guess I need a Helmet.

[stefan]

I have 4 x-tra harnesses, 2 ropes a bunch of beners, belay devices and webbing I am happy to share all I need is a ride. Oh yes and I guess I need a Helmet.

helmets ... yeah, i went for a while without one, then it started making more sense to get one. i ended up finding a good deal on the black diamond half dome at rei ... $38 (on sale). it's not the ideal helmet, but i couldn't pass up the deal.

[Reedus]

I was actually anti - helmet for awhile just becasue I had a bunch of people hounding me on the Yayhoo group everytime I would post pictures without one. Tom piped in and gave me a screamin deal on one that i couldn't pass up. Two :2thumbs: for Tom

[ratagonia]

I was actually anti - helmet for awhile just becasue I had a bunch of people hounding me on the Yayhoo group everytime I would post pictures without one. Tom piped in and gave me a screamin deal on one that i couldn't pass up. Two :2thumbs: for Tom

Thanks for the thumbs, Reedus. Funny you should mention that, as I just put up my annual Valentine's Day Sale which always includes Helmets, so folks can pick one up for their hard-headed (but not enough) loved ones.

Tom

[rockgremlin]

I was actually anti - helmet for awhile just becasue I had a bunch of people hounding me on the Yayhoo group everytime I would post pictures without one. Tom piped in and gave me a screamin deal on one that i couldn't pass up. Two :2thumbs: for Tom



Funny...I went through the same change from anti-helmet to pro-helmet right around the time Tom offered me a screamin' deal too.

[Alex]

Second bit of advice - go with someone who is experienced to start. That way, you don't get into too much trouble, and you can learn quite a bit about techniques and safety. Last year Shane and I did an "Adopt-a-noob" canyoneering weekend, and it was a whole lot of fun. We had about three or four genuine newbies show up, and we did a few very fun canyons. We have lightly discussed doing it again this year at least once. You should join us this year.

These guys were great to take me and another member out. I had a great time and learned alot by actually putting the skills and techniques into action. I didn't mind carrying the rope or making dinner and would do it again without being asked.

Gear wise here's a few things I am doing different next time. My day hiking boots worked fine but I'd rather have a lighter not so bulky shoe. The boots I had weren't bad and I'd use them again but something different would have been nice. I'm taking a bigger pack. The one I had was just under 1000 cubic in and wasn't enough, I'm going bigger next time and with something that will carry the rope much easier. I used my hands alot, probably because I don't have the techniques down to use my hands less. They got fairly beat up and I had to borrow some gloves for the last half of the canyon. I also learned a simple harness is all you need.

I was the other member who mooched into the trip with the pros. It was wonderful to learn from the best. What itchy said I second, from the noob's perspective. A good long sleeve shirt would really help not to scrape elbows. Also, try not to wear cotton too much, it absorbs water too much.

[rockgremlin]

Geez, Alex -- where've you been? Haven't seen you around here for a while.

[Alex]

Geez, Alex -- where've you been? Haven't seen you around here for a while.

Got addicted to video games and fell off the Earth :oops: But spring is almost here so I got myself a trip planned to The Wave, Zion and hopefully will jump on SLC convoy down south with some of you :naughty:

Sorry, don't mean to hijack the thread. DiskGolfDiver, if you get a chance to go on any noob trips with the guys from here, I totally recommend it. They are very patient, educational and all around great guys. I went with rockgremlin and Ice himself, itchy and I were the newbies. You have to carry the rope for the pros and cook the dinner, but it's all worth it. Doing their laundry helps too :lol8:

[Iceaxe]

We invite noob's so that they may praise us for our greatness in their TR's :lol8:

:roflol: :roflol: :roflol: :roflol:

:bootyshake:

:roll:

[Alex]

Hey brown nosing got me a ride in your car.... so it does work! :twisted:

[chapin]

ropes, have both the orange and the tom's stuff. beat the hell out of both after the july tomfest. pretty much a canyon a day for three weeks, not including pee breaks. (including a three day weekend with a 270 pound never-been-out-west buddy who learned to love going down a rope, especially the part where you swing wildly back and forth into space while sounding barbaric yawps)

not a bit of difference between the two in terms of durability (bad sheath damage to the bluewater, but it was my fault). tom's stuff is a little easier on your hands, and i don't generally like wearing gloves.

if you get one thing from his site, though, get a floaty rope bag. after you get the hang of it, it saves loads of time and it's easy to keep your rope out of the grit. simple and functional. gear haiku.

i feel like i should say something mean about tom just to prove that i'm not a brown nosing toady.

his veggie lasagne is merely the third best i've ever had, and if anyone disagrees with me, he/she/it can stick it.

and i like my metolius bag.

so there.

[price1869]

I'll expound a little.

I own a lot of tom's rope. It's good rope and it's cheap.

Two complaints:
1: Rough raps - sometimes it feels like you're hitting bumps all the way down the rope. It's only on the 8mm, so it might be something with the construction of the rope. Or maybe the twists caused by some canyoneering partners that think you have to have a pirahna if you're going to rap on 8mm.

2: If you're going to biner block on this rope, put something over the biner. When you pull your rope, it's very easy to grind a hole in the sheath. I have 2 ruined(shortened) ropes from this. (Thanks Snatch)

These are not insults directed at Tom. I know he didn't make the rope himself. If anything, it's a request for a biner block protection device. I will happily buy the first one.

A piece of noob advice:

It's rappel, not repel. You're not doing a 200' get-rid-of-insects.

:rockon:

[Iceaxe]

1: Rough raps - sometimes it feels like you're hitting bumps all the way down the rope. It's only on the 8mm, so it might be something with the construction of the rope.

The little bumping feeling disappeared from my 8mm after the rope was broke in.

The more use my Imlay rope gets the better its "hand" becomes. YMMV

:popcorn:

[rockgremlin]

It's rappel, not repel. You're not doing a 200' get-rid-of-insects.

:rockon:


:roflol: :roflol: :roflol: :roflol: Oh man! Too funny!