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DAA
01-21-2007, 09:24 AM
Me and my friend Tim got out for some calling yesterday. Hunting an area that's new to us, sign on the ground said there are a lot of coyotes in this valley though. Lot of jack rabbits too. First couple stands were dry, but on the third stand we had a big gorgeous coyote come in just perfect. Offered up a slam dunk broadside shot. Tim was using my .20-250 and missed the slam dunk shot. Video review shows he missed it by a mile. Way over that coyotes back. He was fit to be tied. Stand ended right there, as he was cutting loose with the epitaths.

Tim and I take turns with the rifle and camera. You get to stay on the rifle until you get a shot (hit or miss), then we switch. So...

Two stands later, I'm on the rifle, pretty little gyp came in and stopped facing us from about 120 yards. She had her nose up trying to get a taste of the breeze and looked nervous to me. So I dumped her right there, posthaste. Hit her exactly where I was aiming, at the neck/chest junction. She dropped like a ton of bricks, bang-flop. Tim wasn't able to get any footage though... Here's a pic of the coyote:

http://photos.imageevent.com/daffleck/coyotes/websize/IMG_0863.jpg

Back to the truck, I start to put the .20 away, Tim says no, he's gonna kill a coyote with that rifle it it's the last thing he does. Cool with me.

Wind came up and howled, and it was COOOOLD! We didn't have a thermometer, but I'd guess high teens/low twenties without the wind. Just plain bloody painful cold with the strong wind that started to blow. We kept cruising into new ground we'd never seen and making a few stands here and there anyway.

Second to the last stand of the day and me and Tim are both feeling REALLY good about the setup. Sometimes you get set on a stand, and things just look and feel right and you just KNOW you are going to call one in. This was one of those stands. Not 30 seconds after turning on the Foxpro, we've got two coyotes coming hard! Things kind of went to Hell in a handbasket on us though. The two coyotes were on separate paths. I chose the one I figured most likely to offer a good shot to follow with the camera and got some great footage of it coming for a quarter mile, but it flared and kept going right on by. Turns out Tim had chosen the other one to follow with the scope, and it had come all the way up not 20 yards from our boots, the got a snoot full of our breeze and bugged out, taking the other coyote with it. I had my eye in the viewfinder, so I never even knew the other one had come so close, or that it was the cause of the one I was watching flaring off. Regardless, the one that came up close in the brush never gave Tim a shot he liked. So, two called in, but no shot taken.

Next, last stand of the day, and DAMN it was cold! We both had a really good feeling about this stand too though. And again, less than one minute after turning on the caller, here comes a coyote. Big mature male, coming hard. I had some tall sage brush partially blocking my view, so the footage I got is only so-so, but I'll be danged if Tim didn't roll that sucker on the run!

Here his with the big gorgeous coyote:

http://photos.imageevent.com/daffleck/coyotes/websize/IMG_0866.jpg

The transformation of his mood was remarkable! And good to see!

We'll probably only get in another couple days of calling before we hang it up for the year. It's been a pretty good season though. And just way too much fun!

- DAA

accadacca
01-21-2007, 09:54 AM
Cool story. Sounds like its all about the thrill of the hunt. Must take some real skill to bring those dogs home. :popcorn:

fourtycal
01-21-2007, 04:30 PM
:hail2thechief: :hail2thechief:

I spent Saturday out too. We made several sets but could not bring any in. I had some howls and barks but couldn't spot a thing.
It was cold, My truck said zero until nearly 11:00am and with the wind It was frigid.
I definitely need a foxpro, I have a feeling my mouth calls may be a problem.

Those are great coyotes. Good work. :hail2thechief:

DAA
01-21-2007, 08:10 PM
Don't sell yourself short on your mouth blown calls fourtycal. I'm the last person to try and talk anyone out of an electronic call, and especially a Foxpro, as I'm one of the original field staff members for Foxpro. I've been involved in field testing and making suggestions for new Foxpro products for years. Their newest caller has some SWEET features on it that I've been wanting to see for a long time now. I think their stuff is the best, and definitely their customer service is second to none.

But! All that said... I'm pretty sure your calling is just fine. And I hate to see anyone just throwing money at a caller, when I think for most guys, most of the time, the sound really isn't that much of an issue. If anything, I'd say get a tape, or I can email you a sound file, and just get your mouth calls to where they sound at least half-ass like the recording. Which I bet they are at least that good already. Live prey animals in distress make a wide variety of sounds. Your mouth calling would have to be pretty bad for it to be a real hindrance. I've had coyotes come in to some pretty horrible sounding mouth calls!

The main things are location and not being detected. Sounds are small potatoes in the big picture, compared to being in the right place and getting there without getting busted. You had them yapping at you. So you know they are there and that they could hear your sounds. They might be wise though. When you get yappers like you had yesterday, a lot of times they have been called before and aren't going to fall for the same old rabbit blues from the same old directions. If the yaps and howls you were hearing were of the warning/alarmed variety, you can be sure those coyotes had you busted. And those howls were putting every coyote within hearing on high alert. Educated coyotes like that are harder to call. You have to work a little harder to approach them from a different direction and play them a different tune that they aren't wised up to.

With snow on the ground, it's not that tough to determine the areas they are using to hunt, travel corridors, or where they lay up during the day. You can tell from the tracks whether they are just moving through an area, hunting it, or whether it is a core area where they spend a lot of time. It's those core areas you want to concentrate on during the day. That's where they are in their comfort zone. The key is to get yourself into that core comfort zone area, undetected. That's the part I see most guys messing up. They just aren't stealthy enough. Coyotes have incredibly keen senses. Their hearing and noses are just about as good as any animal on the planet. Taking their sense of smell into account is always first and foremost. You HAVE to pay close attention to the wind and take it into consideration at all times. Both in walking to your stand, and in how you setup the stand. Never give them an easy way to get downwind of you under cover. You'll never see most of the coyotes you call in if you give them that. And then their ears. Even after all these years and having called in many hundreds of coyotes, I'm still sometimes just flabbergasted to witness how well coyotes can hear! So, when moving in to make a stand, it can not be emphasized enough that one must BE QUIET. I mean, like as in stalking a mule deer buck with a bow quiet. The conditions yesterday, with it being so cold, made the snow really crunchy. Makes moving silently very, very difficult. But! The wind was also blowing pretty hard. So we used the wind to our advantage, to cover the sound of our walking in to the stands. On every stand, we strived to use the wind to our advantage to both fool their ears, and their noses. It worked a few times.

Too long winded already, so I'll stop rambling. But, I would be really surprised if your calling was the biggest reason for not being successful. Far more likely that the coyotes were simply wise to the game and knew you were there. Locate core areas (single most important), move in undected (quiet, and ALWAYS being aware of wind direction), and you'll do well - I'm sure of it.

- DAA

Sombeech
01-22-2007, 11:53 AM
Cool. I've gotta go Coyote hunting one of these days. Would you say you usually find them in the rabbit areas?

fourtycal
01-22-2007, 05:31 PM
Thanks for the info DAA.

I have a couple of videos that make it look easy :haha: .
We did make several mistakes and I was in country I have never explored before but there were yotes nearby and it was just nice to be out there.
I have called them in before but it was way down in southern Utah where there is less pressure and I have always been with a guy that lives there and does this a lot, even my kid (13) got a shot at one last winter.
I can hardly wait til next weekend to try it again. :2thumbs:

JP
01-22-2007, 06:06 PM
DAA,
Any thoughts on the 7mm Mag :ne_nau:

DAA
01-22-2007, 06:16 PM
DAA,
Any thoughts on the 7mm Mag :ne_nau:

Makes a good elk hunting cartridge. Kinda big for coyotes though :mrgreen: .

- DAA

JP
01-22-2007, 06:47 PM
Kinda big for coyotes though :mrgreen: .

- DAA
I was thinking about the 1000yds shots :haha:

shlingdawg
01-23-2007, 07:00 AM
I'm heading out Friday w/ my brother. We're both rookies but are going to attempt some of the techniques you mentioned. Last time I was out rabbit hunting out there, we heard bunches of coyotes up on the hill, so we'll try to get some this time.

jumar
05-11-2007, 12:16 PM
Did one stand last night out West of Utah Lake, but didn't see anything. Not really surprised, I didn't expect there to be much there. Where are some good places relatively close to Utah County?

I did see some coyote pups a few weekends ago on my way to High Spur. My dad went down there last weekend and tried to call some in, but no luck. :ne_nau:

rooster32
05-12-2007, 12:35 PM
To each is own....but if you knock down a coyote at this time of year....there's a good chance your leaving a litter of pups to fend for themselves.

Wait a bit and you'll have more targets for the fall...plus you could actually use the hides if you choose.

Just my $.02's

tanya
05-12-2007, 01:20 PM
To each is own....but if you knock down a coyote at this time of year....there's a good chance your leaving a litter of pups to fend for themselves.



:ne_nau: yeah!

Rev. Coyote
05-13-2007, 01:44 PM
DAA;

Thanks for another riveting report of you big strong men shooting dogs. Hey, do you guys ever go after songbirds with BB guns? That's another man's man sport too. Oh, or hey -- how about setting cats on fire? That's good for a few laughs too.

Seriously, though, you did eat your kill, right?

Rev.

Sombeech
05-13-2007, 02:11 PM
Seriously, though, you did eat your kill, right?

:roflol: coming from somebody who strongly supports abortion, I guess we could ask you the same question.

spiraleyes
05-13-2007, 05:59 PM
Seriously, though, you did eat your kill, right?

:roflol: coming from somebody who strongly supports abortion, I guess we could ask you the same question.


:eek2:

OWNED!!!

KillEmAll
05-13-2007, 07:55 PM
:roflol:

rooster32
05-13-2007, 08:11 PM
Ouch...that's gotta sting :bootyshake: :roflol:

shagster
05-13-2007, 08:45 PM
Can't we all just get along now fellas? :ne_nau:

asdf
05-14-2007, 06:16 AM
Takes a big man to murder a little dog. :2thumbs:

jumar
05-14-2007, 06:20 AM
To each is own....but if you knock down a coyote at this time of year....there's a good chance your leaving a litter of pups to fend for themselves.

Wait a bit and you'll have more targets for the fall...plus you could actually use the hides if you choose.

Just my $.02's

Good to know, thanks.

So where are some good places?

DAA
05-14-2007, 07:03 AM
Takes a big man to murder a little dog. :2thumbs:

And just what, exactly, does being a "big man" have to do with anything?

I don't understand you guys and all your references to "manhood" and "murder" and stuff. You are simply ignorant, apparently? Coyote hunting has nothing to do with my manhood. Or anyone elses. Does it take a "big man" to make lame ass snipes from behind a keyboard?

Wanna do some real "big man" stuff? Here's a suggestion:

If you have derogatory comments of a personal nature to make, then make them truly personal. By that I mean, make them in person. Face to face. Close enough to make sure I can smell your breath when you are making your snide little comments. Regardless of the outcome, I could at least respect you for taking that iniative. But for sitting behind your keyboard, taking pot shots that don't even show any creative thought process or intellectual integrity, all I can do is wonder how much it must suck to be you.

As for the Rev. We all know that I'm the subject of his intense homosexual fantasies. We all know that. While I'm not his type, and don't lean that way anyway, I'm still flattered by the attention.

- DAA

Alex
05-14-2007, 07:12 AM
Man, I can almost hear the gun shots in those posts....take it easy dudes!

Hey DAA, I have never really been hunting, so excuse the question...

What exactly do you do with a coyote? Do you use it for hides, frame it or do you actually use it for meat? Again, nothing offensive, I am really just curious.

jumar
05-14-2007, 07:29 AM
:popcorn:

shagster
05-14-2007, 07:55 AM
Come on fellas, we don't need any personal attacking here. Let's just all get along and keep it clean. :nod:

asdf
05-14-2007, 08:49 AM
I don't understand you guys and all your references to "manhood" and "murder" and stuff. You are simply ignorant, apparently? Coyote hunting has nothing to do with my manhood. Or anyone elses. Does it take a "big man" to make lame ass snipes from behind a keyboard?.

Just settle down there buddy It was a complement.... Not many people can murder innocent animals in cold blood and post the pictures on the Internet bragging about it.

fouristhenewone
05-14-2007, 11:16 AM
DAA - I'll call you on your shit right now. I don't care if it's online or a foot from your face, I'll still tell you that I think hunting coyotes for sport is for pussys. and you do it, so you do the math. Any person that thinks it shows any talent to sit around taking pot shots at coyotes is a frigging idiot. shit, I could walk up into my buddies backyard any summer night and pick of ten in an hour.

when reading your post I have no choice but to come to the conclusion that you are a. to scared to participate in a sport where the other participant isn't an unsuspecting victim, or b. just don't have the skills to participate in any other sport.

oh, and I'm not an anti-gun nut, btw. or even anti-hunting, for that matter. but when it's purely for sport and has no other purpose, well, to reiterate, that's for pussys. I'm all for hunting to eat, or even hunting for sport, as long as you are eating the meat.

Also, please don't launch into so speech about how there's an over population of coyotes, rabbits, etc. It's because people like yourself hunted wolves out of existence 70 years ago that has removed the natural predator of coyotes. given time nature balances itself out, but not when humans continue to dick with it's ability to do so.

Sombeech
05-14-2007, 11:38 AM
OK, we'd hate to lock this one down too, but there's no reason for bitter arguments.

This is the Hunting & Shooting forum. Something's gonna die. If the activity remains legal, it's allowed to be posted here.

Let's stop the personal attacks, or it will have to be locked up.

fouristhenewone
05-14-2007, 12:20 PM
sombeech, all i have to say about that is, why moderate based on my last comment. It's pretty obvious that you've been reading this thread up till now. why not state that you'd lock it down after this comment from DAA -
"As for the Rev. We all know that I'm the subject of his intense homosexual fantasies. We all know that."

seriously, regardless of your personal view of the situation, moderate based on what's there, not the side that you are on. If you are going to claim this is a "family-friendly forum" then make it so.

P.S., I don't care if you lock the thread or not. I'll let my last comment stay my last.

Sombeech
05-14-2007, 12:40 PM
sombeech, all i have to say about that is, why moderate based on my last comment. It's pretty obvious that you've been reading this thread up till now.

Sorry, but that's not the case. I hadn't seen this thread since yesterday when I made that last comment. I hadn't logged on to the forum until right about noon today. I'm replying to everybody who has posted.

We've got to practice some self control. If there is a certain forum that gets us a little upset, we'll just have to stay out of it. This is why I stay out of the Political & Environmental forums. I try not to even look around in there. :cool2:

jumar
05-14-2007, 12:43 PM
Canyoneering has its bolt wars....caving has it's disclosure of cave locations...guess this forum has it's coyote hunting. :lol8:

Rev. Coyote
05-14-2007, 05:01 PM
Seriously, though, you did eat your kill, right?

:roflol: coming from somebody who strongly supports abortion, I guess we could ask you the same question.

Yes, with fava beans and a nice merlot.

Rev. Coyote
05-14-2007, 06:19 PM
Takes a big man to murder a little dog. :2thumbs:

And just what, exactly, does being a "big man" have to do with anything?

I don't understand you guys and all your references to "manhood" and "murder" and stuff. You are simply ignorant, apparently? Coyote hunting has nothing to do with my manhood. Or anyone elses. Does it take a "big man" to make lame ass snipes from behind a keyboard?

Wanna do some real "big man" stuff? Here's a suggestion:

If you have derogatory comments of a personal nature to make, then make them truly personal. By that I mean, make them in person. Face to face. Close enough to make sure I can smell your breath when you are making your snide little comments. Regardless of the outcome, I could at least respect you for taking that iniative. But for sitting behind your keyboard, taking pot shots that don't even show any creative thought process or intellectual integrity, all I can do is wonder how much it must suck to be you.

As for the Rev. We all know that I'm the subject of his intense homosexual fantasies. We all know that. While I'm not his type, and don't lean that way anyway, I'm still flattered by the attention.

- DAA

Hey, I'm in Virginia, you're in Utah. I'm not making a special trip just to tell you what I think of you. This will have to do, bub.

Far as the fantasy thing, you've never met me. I might be JUST your type, Nancy! Hee hee hee...

Rev. Coyote
05-14-2007, 06:22 PM
DAA - I'll call you on your shit right now. I don't care if it's online or a foot from your face, I'll still tell you that I think hunting coyotes for sport is for pussys. and you do it, so you do the math. Any person that thinks it shows any talent to sit around taking pot shots at coyotes is a frigging idiot. shit, I could walk up into my buddies backyard any summer night and pick of ten in an hour.

when reading your post I have no choice but to come to the conclusion that you are a. to scared to participate in a sport where the other participant isn't an unsuspecting victim, or b. just don't have the skills to participate in any other sport.

oh, and I'm not an anti-gun nut, btw. or even anti-hunting, for that matter. but when it's purely for sport and has no other purpose, well, to reiterate, that's for pussys. I'm all for hunting to eat, or even hunting for sport, as long as you are eating the meat.

Also, please don't launch into so speech about how there's an over population of coyotes, rabbits, etc. It's because people like yourself hunted wolves out of existence 70 years ago that has removed the natural predator of coyotes. given time nature balances itself out, but not when humans continue to dick with it's ability to do so.

Amen to that.

REDFOX
05-14-2007, 08:32 PM
I have met a lot of people that are all talk and think that they have the skills to take a coyote. Very few people actually are successful or accurate enough in their shooting to actually shoot a coyote. Good Job DAA on your years of time spent in the field and the respect that you have for coyotes that seems to go unnoticed in this very forum.

Rev. Coyote
05-14-2007, 08:33 PM
Canyoneering has its bolt wars....caving has it's disclosure of cave locations...guess this forum has it's coyote hunting. :lol8:

Bolt wars? Do tell, O Jumar!

fourtycal
05-14-2007, 08:59 PM
What exactly do you do with a coyote? Do you use it for hides, frame it or do you actually use it for meat? Again, nothing offensive, I am really just curious.

The hides are sometimes worth a little, many counties offer a bounty as well.
They are not fit to eat just like you wouldn't eat mice or rats that you trap.

Coyotes are prolific, killing them to protect your ranch animals or for fun does not impact their numbers enough to even keep them in check, That's why the bounty on them and government subsidized control.

DAA is a hero of mine, these critters are not at all easy to bag (except for fourist who can "pick of ten in an hour" :cool: )

I just hunt them for fun and to piss off the rev :wink: .

accadacca
05-14-2007, 09:37 PM
Ive never had much luck hunting coyotes, but I do like to shoot dogs randomly.

stefan
05-14-2007, 09:58 PM
Canyoneering has its bolt wars....caving has it's disclosure of cave locations...guess this forum has it's coyote hunting. :lol8:

Bolt wars?

bolt wars ... kind of like the clone wars in star wars. piktchure the evil empire coming and modifying (some might say "dumbing down") canyons by placing metal bolts to mollify difficulties and obstacles naturally present in the canyon. the rebels have fought against the empire by using the good side of the force (knowledge, ingenuity and education) to spread the practice of natural anchoring and other non-permanent methods to deal with the obstacles ... convincing others of the need for and the elegance of broadening their skill set so that it's commensurate with the canyon rather than the reverse ... to respect the canyon, as it were.

the bolt wars further involved the middle ... those who aren't about to place a bolt everywhere, but can see the utility of placing them in certain places ...

the rebels seem to have won in general, however, the empire is still alive, though elusive ...

jumar
05-15-2007, 06:27 AM
Rev. Coyote wrote:
jumar wrote:
Canyoneering has its bolt wars....caving has it's disclosure of cave locations...guess this forum has it's coyote hunting.


Bolt wars?


bolt wars ... kind of like the clone wars in star wars. piktchure the evil empire coming and modifying (some might say "dumbing down") canyons by placing metal bolts to mollify difficulties and obstacles naturally present in the canyon. the rebels have fought against the empire by using the good side of the force (knowledge, ingenuity and education) to spread the practice of natural anchoring and other non-permanent methods to deal with the obstacles ... convincing others of the need for and the elegance of broadening their skill set so that it's commensurate with the canyon rather than the reverse ... to respect the canyon, as it were.

the bolt wars further involved the middle ... those who aren't about to place a bolt everywhere, but can see the utility of placing them in certain places ...

the rebels seem to have won in general, however, the empire is still alive, though elusive ...

:lol8:
Yeah there's an endless debate on whether or not to use bolts, and when and where to use them.
Use the force Luke! Or a big pile of rocks to rappel off of. Whichever's easier. :haha:

Rev. Coyote
05-15-2007, 07:15 AM
Good Job DAA on your years of time spent in the field and the respect that you have for coyotes that seems to go unnoticed in this very forum.

He respects them so much he kills them. That's some twisted logic there.

Rev. Coyote
05-15-2007, 07:18 AM
I just hunt them for fun and to piss off the rev :wink: .


Hey man, whatever gives you a woodie. Who am I to judge?

Rev. Coyote
05-15-2007, 07:19 AM
Rev. Coyote wrote:
jumar wrote:
Canyoneering has its bolt wars....caving has it's disclosure of cave locations...guess this forum has it's coyote hunting.


Bolt wars?


bolt wars ... kind of like the clone wars in star wars. piktchure the evil empire coming and modifying (some might say "dumbing down") canyons by placing metal bolts to mollify difficulties and obstacles naturally present in the canyon. the rebels have fought against the empire by using the good side of the force (knowledge, ingenuity and education) to spread the practice of natural anchoring and other non-permanent methods to deal with the obstacles ... convincing others of the need for and the elegance of broadening their skill set so that it's commensurate with the canyon rather than the reverse ... to respect the canyon, as it were.

the bolt wars further involved the middle ... those who aren't about to place a bolt everywhere, but can see the utility of placing them in certain places ...

the rebels seem to have won in general, however, the empire is still alive, though elusive ...

:lol8:
Yeah there's an endless debate on whether or not to use bolts, and when and where to use them.
Use the force Luke! Or a big pile of rocks to rappel off of. Whichever's easier. :haha:

Interesting... I'm a pansy about climbing that involves ropes, so had no idea there was a war aloft.

fouristhenewone
05-15-2007, 07:30 AM
Coyotes are prolific, killing them to protect your ranch animals or for fun does not impact their numbers enough to even keep them in check, That's why the bounty on them and government subsidized control.


You mean to protect the cows and sheep that crap all over the same BLM land we all like to camp on? The ones that take a crap in 2/3 of the good springs in Utah? Boy am I glad we are protecting those slow elk.


DAA is a hero of mine, these critters are not at all easy to bag (except for fourist who can "pick of ten in an hour" :cool: )


your right. I was exaggerating. but I can definitely pick off that many neighborhood kids, cats, and dogs. They're just as helpless, but a little better eating. where's my government check for that?! :blahblah:

Rev. Coyote
05-15-2007, 08:16 AM
DAA is a hero of mine, these critters are not at all easy to bag (except for fourist who can "pick of ten in an hour" :cool: )


your right. I was exaggerating. but I can definitely pick off that many neighborhood kids, cats, and dogs. They're just as helpless, but a little better eating. where's my government check for that?! :blahblah:

You, good sir, are one high-octane smartass! My hat is off to you.

DAA
05-15-2007, 09:08 AM
Wow... Not sure what to say to all of this?

I'd engage in civil discussion here with some of you who seem so filled with blind hate if there were any point to it. But there isn't. Your comments vividly illustrate a profound lack of even the most basic knowledge, understanding or any modicum of experience with the very animal you champion. You guys so obviously know so little of the coyote, and have so obviously never spent any time observing them, yet you make such advanced judgements in regards to them, that there simply isn't any grounds upon which to begin even the most basic of civil discussion. I have been privileged to spend thousands of days in the field pursuing coyotes, with both rifle and camera. I've observed first hand the entire life cycle of the coyote. I have an extensive library of coyote literature, including everything from both published and un-published graduate works, to both published and un-published gov't funded studies, to non scientific literature like Dobe's stories of coyote lore. I have spent countless hours talking to people who have devoted their professional careers to either studying coyotes, or attempting to control coyotes. Coyotes are my favorite animal. I have much admiration and a deep seated appreciation for the coyote. I wish coyotes as a species nothing but prosperity. But I have a deep enough understanding of the coyote, it's nature, it's adapability, it's intelligence and reslience, that I know the coyote does not need my well wishes in order to prosper. The coyote is going to prosper regardless of what Man does, or does not do. But, if in some fantasy world that will never actually exist, I thought that hunting the coyote would harm that prosperity, I'd be the most vocal, active anti-coyote hunting advocate you could imagine.

All you guys are offering are superficial, self centered, ignorant, hateful ravings utterly lacking even a shred of intellectual integrity. It's about hate, it's about yourselfs. It's not about the coyote. You don't know the first thing about the coyote and I believe that deep down, you don't give a rats ass about the coyote either.

But, anyway... The magnitude of your ignorance regarding the coyote is mirrored in your lack of knowlege or understanding of the coyote hunter. You truly have no clue. You offer nothing here but mindless insult and farcical input. I'm no crusader. It's not my job to educate or enlighten you.

So... I guess for you guys that suffer blind hate for that which you have no understanding or knowledge of, well, I just feel sorry for you. And I'll leave it at that...

- DAA

MY T PIMP
05-15-2007, 10:38 AM
When I kill coyotes I give the carcasses to Vietnamese restraunts and homeless shelters. It makes me feel good about killing the mangy mongruls. One time we blew the ass end off a dog, damn shame but the meat was no good. So we propped it up in a toilet in the womans bathroom of a rest stop. The little guy looked so cute with his head all propped up over his paws like he was coming right out of the toilet. I am glad that at least that carcass brought us a bit of entertainment. You should of seen the women running out of there, priceless!

Rev. Coyote
05-15-2007, 10:52 AM
DAA: I read your diatribe and was amused to see you paint yourself as a victim of blind hatred. That's overly-dramatic to a level only known by high school girls.

I've also read you gleeful accounts of coyote killing, and the joy you take in blasting coyotes out of their pads precludes even the slightest notion that you respect these animals. It's kind of like the way a child molester talks about how much he loves kids.

I spend a lot of time watching coyotes and even recording their night songs while I'm in Utah. Perhaps I'm not the "expert" you are on the animal, but know enough to see how wrong it is to goof on killing them. Again, to claim a love and respect for the coyote while getting cheap thrills killing them is a non-sequitur. You need to do some serious soul-searching about this.

fouristhenewone
05-15-2007, 10:55 AM
DAA - I'll take that bait.

Here is the thing that I truly can't wrap my head around. Your respect for the Coyote as an animal translates into a desire to hunt them for sport? I may be dense, but I just can't understand that mentality. You know, I have a deep seated knowledge and respect for several living species, wolves for one, the ponderosa pine for another. Yet, I've never felt the urge to kill a wolf or to cut down a ponderosa pine, just for sport. I could respect you if you had given me some understanding of the purpose or logic behind what you do. But you haven't yet. Basically, all you've told me so far is "i have a profound respect for coyotes, yet, since it's not going to make an impact on the population, I highly enjoy killing them for no particular purpose." This is the same mentality of people who kill rabbits or potguts, just for the purpose of seeing a explosion of guts and blood. I just can't understand it. Believe me I have tried. I grew up in small town Utah, so it's not as if I haven't been exposed to any of this before.

You said "The magnitude of your ignorance regarding the coyote is mirrored in your lack of knowledge or understanding of the coyote hunter."

The thing is, I've been around people shooting rabbits, coyotes, pot-guts for all of my life, quite a few of them within my own family. The thing is, not one of them has been this fabled "coyote-hunter" that you speak of. They are just a bunch of good old boys who like to head to the fields and kill things for fun. Nothing from your original post shows me anything different.

As far as your taking pity on me - thanks, but I don't need it. I'm not the uneducated, hate filled person you're speaking about.

It's not about the act itself, it's about the mentality. As I mentioned before, while your completely convinced that humans are not going to make a dent in the coyote population, well, I find that hard to believe. The reality of the situation is, as I'm sure your aware, over-population of animals lower in the food chain is usually caused by the removal of that animals natural predators. Nature did a grand job of keeping things in balance for thousands of years, most people don't seem to grasp the impact we have had on that balance. As you'll recall, passenger pigeons, dodo's, bison, were all hunted to extinction or near extinction by people who thought they were never going to seriously impact the population of those animals. When was the last time you saw a flock of passenger pigeons?

DAA
05-15-2007, 02:20 PM
I didn't offer any bait...



Here is the thing that I truly can't wrap my head around. Your respect for the Coyote as an animal translates into a desire to hunt them for sport? I may be dense, but I just can't understand that mentality. ....

....This is the same mentality of people who kill rabbits or potguts, just for the purpose of seeing a explosion of guts and blood. I just can't understand it. Believe me I have tried.


Well, that's all just fine with me. You don't have to understand what I do. Or understand me, or even like me. You are more than welcome to not like what I do and have a dislike for those of us who do it. I have no need or desire to make you understand. I don't understand you either. So be it. No big deal. I'm content to just leave it at that. It's when you start spewing actual hate towards me, just because of something you don't understand, that I start to feel sorry for you. Distaste and dislike for people you have never met and know nothing about are one thing, real venomous hate is totally something different. People with inner peace, a sense of well being, happy people, they don't go around projecting irrational hatred. They just don't. That's where I'm coming from when I say I feel sorry for you. But I don't know anything about you. Maybe you are a young man. When I was young I had a lot of rage inside of me that frequently got projected irrationally :haha: . I think that is pretty normal for most young men. If that's the case here, then it's really no big deal. People my age though, like I know the Rev. is, well, I really do feel sorry for anyone to have reached that stage of life and still be dealing with such a lack of inner peace and confidence as to be almost visibly leaking out insecurity and hate everywhere he goes. The persona he portrays here on the board is really kind of sad. But, like I said earlier, it's not my gig to help him.



....
It's not about the act itself, it's about the mentality. As I mentioned before, while your completely convinced that humans are not going to make a dent in the coyote population, well, I find that hard to believe. The reality of the situation is, as I'm sure your aware, over-population of animals lower in the food chain is usually caused by the removal of that animals natural predators. Nature did a grand job of keeping things in balance for thousands of years, most people don't seem to grasp the impact we have had on that balance. As you'll recall, passenger pigeons, dodo's, bison, were all hunted to extinction or near extinction by people who thought they were never going to seriously impact the population of those animals. When was the last time you saw a flock of passenger pigeons?

Wow... See, this is where I usually try not to get sucked in. We are bordering on civil discussion. Which is great. I appreciate that you are sincere in your effort. But, the paragraph above has so many completely false assumptions in it, that it would be really difficult to base a civil discussion around it. I'd have to start by picking the above apart, point by point. Frankly, that pretty much always degenerates into a waste of everyones time and effort. Especially when you have a peanut gallery jeering from the sidelines who just want to get back to the name calling.

I really know better, and shouldn't be wasting time on this, but what the heck... I hope you aren't offended by cut and paste style response. I generally don't like it, as it is usually used to take things out of context and twist things around. Long time favored tactic of forum hemorhoids everywhere. Anyway, against my better judgement...



....
It's not about the act itself, it's about the mentality.

I'll give you that. If you don't like the mentality, that's your business and I won't try to change your mind. I don't see why it needs to be a source of friction though?



....
As I mentioned before, while your completely convinced that humans are not going to make a dent in the coyote population, well, I find that hard to believe.

If you don't believe it, do the research then. The coyote is one of the most studied animals in North America. Due to it's economic impact on agricultural producers, there has been more funding and more good solid scientific research done on coyote population dynamics than almost any other animal in America. Piles and piles of data are out there for the reading. Barring the illegal use of banned poisons such as compound 1080, there simply has not been any success in controlling coyote populations. Ever. I'm not talking about recreational hunting, I'm talking full scale, industrial strength, government funded, all out scorched earth erradication effort. Utterly failed. In every instance. There are now more coyotes, in more places than ever before. I won't say that Man "can not" have an impact. Man can. But not using any currently legal means. And certainly, recreational hunting has zero impact on the resource. Every scientific study that has ever been done has reached this conclusion. Common sense and open eyes bear out this fact as well.



....
The reality of the situation is, as I'm sure your aware, over-population of animals lower in the food chain is usually caused by the removal of that animals natural predators.

Well... No, not in this instance. Again, do the research. What you'll find, is that when speaking specifically of coyotes and other large land based predators, is that the predator populations are determined by the prey base. Not the other way around. Rabbit populations are not largely influenced by coyote numbers. But coyote populations are strongly correlated to rabbit populations. That is to say, take away the coyotes, and rabbit numbers are not strongly impacted. Take away the rabbits though, and coyote numbers plummet. You have it exactly backwards, I'm afraid. But, again, don't take my word for it. Do your own research. There are volumes and volumes of data available on this subject. I own many of them. Google the Curlew Valley study area for this specific subject, studied in our own back yard.



....
Nature did a grand job of keeping things in balance for thousands of years, most people don't seem to grasp the impact we have had on that balance.

I'm in partial agreement. This is a huge subject though, way beyond the scope of this discussion. Suffice it to say though, that I believe 100% that recreational coyote hunting has no impact on the coyote resource. It does have very slight positive impact on other wildlife resources, but not enough to be worth talking about, in my opinion. And besides, I don't begrudge coyotes for having to eat. They can eat all the deer and antelope fawns they want. It doesn't hurt my feelings. They are just doing what coyotes do.



....
As you'll recall, passenger pigeons, dodo's, bison, were all hunted to extinction or near extinction by people who thought they were never going to seriously impact the population of those animals.

Way, way, WAY too broad of a brush! Bison, for one, were very intentionaly hunted into near extinction. It was an intentional strategy to starve the plains indians and bring them to their knees while simultaneously incentivizing exploration and explotation of other natural resources. That was no short sighted "ooops". That was intentional extirpation. Your other examples are tragic, but bear absolutely no resemblance nor any relationship to the situation with coyotes and recreational coyote hunting today. There simply isn't any correlation, at all. Again, I urge you not to take my word for it. If you are truly interested, do your own research, make your own conclusions based on the best evidence you are able to find. And don't forget to wear your BS sniffer when reading the scientific stuff either! Always find out who funded the study and it also helps to know the background and motivation of the researchers when applying the BS meter to their published studies. Everyone has an agenda and some of the big names in coyote research push their personal pet agendas pretty hard.

If you do all that research, and reach your own conclusions, and those conclusions are different than mine - fine. We'll just have to respectfully agree to disagree. Hell, even if you reach the same conclusions I have, and still want to hold coyote hunting and coyote hunters in disdain, that's fine too. I encourage you to dislike me :haha: . Just don't go around projecting irrational hate, based on a poor understanding of the facts, when mountains of data and evidence are so readily available. Besides, hate is just bad Karma, you'll feel better all around by just letting it go.

- DAA

jumar
05-15-2007, 02:26 PM
Here I thought the thread was locked.
:popcorn:

Sombeech
05-15-2007, 02:34 PM
Here I thought the thread was locked.
:popcorn:

Yeah, that's pending. We're just waiting for one more personal attack.

Rev. Coyote
05-15-2007, 02:47 PM
People my age though, like I know the Rev. is, well, I really do feel sorry for anyone to have reached that stage of life and still be dealing with such a lack of inner peace and confidence as to be almost visibly leaking out insecurity and hate everywhere he goes.

Gosh, Ghandi, you make some profound points!

So tell me: How is it that indulging in blasting dogs a trait of someone experiencing "inner peace?" I know we should all just accept this pastime of yours, but there's no way in Hell you can make a point for this being no more than an outlet for pure meaness and utter depravity. Your responses always ignore this point, and it's probably good they do. You have no justification.

As far as that Hate Thing, I don't hate you, just hate what you do to the coyotes. But I do know this: Your hate for me is right on the surface. And that I find kind of funny.

Rev. Coyote
05-15-2007, 03:04 PM
A peek at the language of the Mighty Dog Killer:


First couple stands were dry, but on the third stand we had a big gorgeous coyote come in just perfect. Offered up a slam dunk broadside shot.

The sports analogy. Real respectful. Feel the love.


She had her nose up trying to get a taste of the breeze and looked nervous to me. So I dumped her right there, posthaste. Hit her exactly where I was aiming, at the neck/chest junction. She dropped like a ton of bricks, bang-flop.

Bang-flop. Pure poetry. Robert Frost, almost. Feel the love for the animal.


Back to the truck, I start to put the .20 away, Tim says no, he's gonna kill a coyote with that rifle it it's the last thing he does. Cool with me.

Of course.


Big mature male, coming hard. I had some tall sage brush partially blocking my view, so the footage I got is only so-so, but I'll be danged if Tim didn't roll that sucker on the run! The transformation of his mood was remarkable! And good to see!

DAA
05-15-2007, 03:10 PM
Here I thought the thread was locked.
:popcorn:

Yeah, that's pending. We're just waiting for one more personal attack.

Yeah... I really shouldn't have picked at the scab that is this thread. Foolish of me. My apologies, and I'll leave it alone now. Locked or not.

- DAA

shagster
05-15-2007, 03:11 PM
Sorry fellas were gonna lock this one down, the personal attacks have went on too long!! :nono: