Taurus dies, why American car companies are having problems

[Scott P]

Because they are junk.

Ford Taurus sales ended this year to the general public, at least in the US. 2007 model was and is sold to rental companies. Last one rolled off the line October 27 2006.

After reading an article that they killed it, I looked at the stats and saw why it wasn't competitive.

Check this out.

A 2006 V-6 Ford Taurus has 153 horsepower and goes 0-60 in 8.9 seconds. It is rated at 20/27 miles per gallon.

A 2006 four cylinder Honda Accord has 166 horsepower and goes 0-60 in 8.0 seconds. It is rated 26/34 miles per gallon.

This doesn't even take in account things like mechanical realibility, fit and finish, build quality, etc. And American car companies wonder why they are starting to lose more of the car market.

Ford isn't the only one. Even the new dinky and small Chevy Cobalt only gets 25/34 miles per gallon. It only a little less mileage as a Honda Accord, but much smaller (20% less passenger volume) and with a less powerful engine. Extremely poor quality too and one of the worst new cars for mechanical reliability.

[rockgremlin]

Hey you're preachin to the choir buddy! I own two vehicles: 1991 Toyota Pickup truck w/ over 180,000 miles, still runnin strong, and a 2001 Toyota Prius (Hybrid).


Domestics SUCK!!

[Udink]

Hahah...I drive an '02 Taurus, but I totally agree with you Scott. American cars are heavy, clunky, and sluggish compared to similarly-sized Japanese cars. I must have gotten lucky because I haven't had any problems with my Taurus, but if I'd had the money I'd have gotten a newer Subaru or anything else with better fuel mileage and longevity. As it was, when I bought my car two years ago, it had already depreciated so much that it was worth about as much as an 8 year old foreign car of similar size.

What I can't understand is why American car companies can't keep up with Japan. Is it just our lazy work ethic? Or something else?

[Iceaxe]

If would help a lot if you would not compare a car (the Taurus) that the manufactuer states has lived out its useful shelf life and has been replaced (with the Ford Fusion).

The Taurus was first introduced in 1985. The car was a milestone design for Ford and a very influential vehicle in the marketplace, with Ford selling nearly 7.5 million examples during its 20 years of production. Between 1992 and 1996, the Taurus was the best-selling car in the United States, even prompting Honda to grow the US version of the Accord to a similar size.

So... bottom line is Ford introduced a car that was the best selling car in the market place. Honda answered with a better car. Ford is now about to answer with the New Ford Fusion..... looks like round three to me.

And just a little FWIW info.... consumer reports has rated the Ford Fusion as one of it 5 most reliable family cars for 2007. The Accord didn't make the list (the Hybrid Accord did).

:rockon:

[Scott P]

So... bottom line is Ford introduced a car that was the best selling car in the market place. Honda answered with a better car. Ford is now about to answer with the New Ford Fusion..... looks like round three to me.

Good point. The Honda Accord was introduced in 1976. It

[Iceaxe]

I had the orginal list somewhere but I can't find it now.... but here is the general jist on the current state of cars and quality. The Ford Fusion is specifically mentioned as topping the Honda Accord.

CONSUMER REPORTS NEW CAR PREVIEW: RELIABILITY OF SOME NEW
DOMESTIC MODELS CHALLENGES JAPANESE FRONTRUNNERS

Ford Fusion on par with Honda Accord & Toyota Camry;
Family and small cars predicted to be most reliable overall

YONKERS, NY

[Scott P]

Thanks. Interesting, but a few key points from the article. :2thumbs:

1. Consumer Reports' latest Annual Car Reliability Survey shows some domestic models have become as reliable as their Japanese competitors.

2. However Asian models continue to be the most reliable overall.

3. Overall, 39 of the 47 vehicles with the highest predicted reliability scores are Japanese. Just six are domestic models-the Fusion/Milan/Zephyr trio, the Chevrolet Tahoe and GMC Yukon large sport-utility vehicles (SUV), and the Pontiac Vibe wagon.

6 out of 47 is a failing test in most circles. :lol8:

[Sombeech]

I actually thought they stopped producing the Taurus a few years ago. I was thinking they replaced it with either the Focus, or the 500

I'm a '99 Taurus driver. I bought mine on comfort alone, something to carry 5 overweight men on a road trip to St George.

The performance really wasn't a concern for me. Now, my truck? Performance will be key on the truck I'm going to buy.

[Iceaxe]

1. Consumer Reports' latest Annual Car Reliability Survey shows some domestic models have become as reliable as their Japanese competitors.

You were comparing the Turd-sarus to the Accord. I mentioned that was no longer a fair comparision as the Turd-sarus had been replaced by the Fusion and that the Fusion was getting very high marks.... nothing else was impyed.

The current problem with the American manufactures is they got lost chasing the massive amounts of money they were making from their big SUV's and Trucks and didn't put any money into developing their car lines. The public demand has now shifted to smaller vehicles and the US car companies are paying the price. The US trucks and SUV's are as good or better then anyone's but their cars are behind.... but they will catch up.

:rockon:

[Iceaxe]

The performance really wasn't a concern for me. Now, my truck? Performance will be key on the truck I'm going to buy.

Now we are are talkin' :2thumbs:

The cute little rice grinders don't build anything that can preform with the big American iron.

Ram SRT10
500 horsepower
525 lb-ft of torque
8.3-liter V10 Viper engine
Six-speed manual transmission with Hurst shifter
22-inch polished-aluminum wheels
Dual exhaust
508-watt Infinity

[accadacca]

Oh man don't get me started. My little brother just brought a 07 Tacoma 4 door long bed. I have talked 3 co-workers into Toyota's and numerous family.

My vehicle's:

1995 Toyota T-100 Pick-up (Japanese) - It actually just hit 200,000 miles today. I just cant bring myself to sell it. It has been such a great truck and there in nothing wrong with it. Why sell?

2005 Toyota Prius (Japanese) - Wonderful car and the most user friendly that I have ever had. 50 mpg ain't bad either.

2004 BMW R1150GS (German) - You cannot buy a better motorcycle period. They have been making them for almost 200 years.

1996 KTM 620 RXCE (Austrian) - IMO KTM makes the best enduros around.

[accadacca]

:roflol: Toyota Tundra - 271 hp and 313 lb-ft of torque. :roflol:
I really don't tow anything that heavy. I have towed wave runners, boats, campers, numerous normal sized trailers with my V-6 T-100. It has towed fine.

Only if I planned on towing a semi trailer would need something with more power. :lol8:

[Iceaxe]

V6 Tacomas can tow up to 6,500 pounds, maximum gross vehicle weight rating 5700 pounds.... :lol8:

I guess thats great for carting around your groceries.

But Real trucks have numbers like this:

Dodge Ram
23,000-pound maximum gross combined weight rating
16,600-pound maximum towing capability
12,500-pound maximum gross vehicle weight rating
5,320-pound maximum payload capacity

Nothing wrong with the rice burners..... but if you are serious about doing some man sized work you have to buy American.

:flag:

[Scott P]

The cute little rice grinders don't build anything that can preform with the big American iron.

Compensating for somethig perhaps? :oops: :roflol:


Ram SRT10
500 horsepower
525 lb-ft of torque

You forgot to mention gas milage. My point about th Accord was that it was both more powerful and had better gas milage the Taurus (or Cobalt).

If that Dodge had that power and better gas milage than the Tundra, then I'd be impressed. Really impressed. What does it get? 4 miles per gallon? :popcorn:

PS, for motors that come standard, I believe the Nissan Titan is (or was in the last CR test) the most powerful standard engine truck, towed more, and got a little better gas milage than the Dodge Hemi. Unfortunately, like the Dodge, it did poorly in reliability stats.

You are right that the American trucks offer more optional power, but I don't need it anyway.


But Real trucks have numbers like this:

Titan pulls 9500 lbs and the Tundra 7500. What do you need to pull that is heavier than that? Don't tell me you are going to start pulling a Unimog for your canyoneerng approaches. :bootyshake:

[Iceaxe]

You forgot to mention gas milage.

:lol8: :lol8: Mileage.... :lol8: :lol8:

And we were talkin' performance this time, I really don't give a crap about mileage when I buy a car. I want slam you back in the seat horsepower. Trust me.... if you ever have the chance to drive a vehicle with 500 hp you will not give a crap about mileage. There is nothing more fun then playing with that type of HP.

:rockon:

[Scott P]

Trust me.... if you ever have the chance to drive a vehicle with 500 hp you will not give a crap about mileage

Last time I had about half that, I was 18 and shortly after had my drivers license suspended. :2thumbs:

69 mph over the speed limit and a road block. Automatic license suspension for that. Nope, those days are over for me. I outgrew them quick. :lol8:

I'll keep my rice burner thank you very much. I average 32 mpg in my essential official SUWA Subaru. Would have bought a Prius, but there is no Toyota dealer within 100 miles, I live in heavy snow country, and I've heard that hybrids are great in most places, but not as good for really cold weather (our town has seen the national low temperature several times in the past month).

Heck my bike has 0 horsepower and it gets me to work every day, but I do drive if it's colder than -5.

[Iceaxe]

What do you need to pull that is heavier than that?

My canyon approach boat :2thumbs:

[Scott P]

How much does that thing weigh? :popcorn:

[derstuka]

Because they are junk.

Ford Taurus sales ended this year to the general public, at least in the US. 2007 model was and is sold to rental companies. Last one rolled off the line October 27 2006.

After reading an article that they killed it, I looked at the stats and saw why it wasn't competitive.

Check this out.

A 2006 V-6 Ford Taurus has 153 horsepower and goes 0-60 in 8.9 seconds. It is rated at 20/27 miles per gallon.

A 2006 four cylinder Honda Accord has 166 horsepower and goes 0-60 in 8.0 seconds. It is rated 26/34 miles per gallon.

This doesn't even take in account things like mechanical realibility, fit and finish, build quality, etc. And American car companies wonder why they are starting to lose more of the car market.

Ford isn't the only one. Even the new dinky and small Chevy Cobalt only gets 25/34 miles per gallon. It only a little less mileage as a Honda Accord, but much smaller (20% less passenger volume) and with a less powerful engine. Extremely poor quality too and one of the worst new cars for mechanical reliability.

Scott, are you pissed off or something again??? If you do not like American cars, do not buy them! Yes, Ford, Chrysler, and GM do suffer behind Toyota and Honda several catagories, but they are better than they used to be. The BIG THREE did not take the japanese seriously many years ago, and now because of that (and the UAW and it's inefficiency) we are still paying for that poor judgement. Years ago, japanese cars used to be pieces of junk, but the japanese have learned since then, and are now leading the way. In a way, you can thank them, because without the competition from Japan, american cars would still be as bad as they were in the 80's.

My opinion is that the american car companies had such a share of the market years ago, they never took the japanese seriously enough, soon enough, couple that with a money sucking UAW (I have been in a least 25 auto plants to witness this, and my dad is UAW) and a never-ending healthcare burden. They should not have needed competition to make a better car, but you know that many companies do not strive to better themselves as much if they do not have competition. The big three is still paying for their mistakes today, however, there is still hope for them. They have to keep changing to survive in the market place.

[Iceaxe]

How much does that thing weigh? :popcorn:

More then two Tocoma's can pull :lol8:

[Scott P]

Scott, are you pissed off or something again???

Pissed off? :ne_nau: Why did you think that? What's wrong the tone of this conversation or the subject matter? Haven't heard anyone pissed in the thread.

It was just something we were discussing on another forum and I brought up in another thread on this uutah.com forum and I thought I'd move it here for some conversation (since it was off topic on the other thread). No pissed off tone here. :ne_nau:


Yes, Ford, Chrysler, and GM do suffer behind Toyota and Honda several catagories, but they are better than they used to be. The BIG THREE did not take the japanese seriously many years ago, and now because of that (and the UAW and it's inefficiency) we are still paying for that poor judgement. Years ago, japanese cars used to be pieces of junk, but the japanese have learned since then, and are now leading the way. In a way, you can thank them, because without the competition from Japan, american cars would still be as bad as they were in the 80's.

All the above is true.

[R]

My $.02

I love my 2003 Grand Am. It has a 3.4L V6 that seems ideally suited to the car. It jumps off the line smartly and growls just a bit starting at 4500 rpm. With my driving habits, it's not uncommon for me to get 32.5 mpg on long highway legs.

105,000 miles and counting fast.

As far as mileage goes, I am reminded of a scene from an episode of The Simpsons, when movie star Ranier Wolfcastle pulls up in his Hummer.

Homer: "What kind of mileage does that thing get?"
Wolfcastle: "One highway, zero city."
Homer: "Sweeeeet!"

:stud:

[Scott P]

More then two Tocoma's can pull

Sounds like you need smaller boat. :bootyshake:

Now I know why you don't like the "greens" and "enviro's". You are worried that they are going to apply gas mileage requirements to trucks and stop the drilling in the ANWR. :mrgreen:

[Iceaxe]

I love my 2003 Grand Am.

My mom has a Grand Am with the GT package in ticket bait red.... it is really a sweet ride.... drives like its on rails.... funny thing is I 've never asked her about the MPG's.

:five:

[R]

My car is the GT. The "muscle hood" was included in the GT1 package that year. Living in the south, I have had white cars for years, and probably always will. It makes a huge difference in the summer.

[Iceaxe]

Homer: "What kind of mileage does that thing get?"
Wolfcastle: "One highway, zero city."
Homer: "Sweeeeet!"

One of the best Simpson episodes ever....

Here is the song that goes with the show... its really funny...

Canyonero
http://www.simpsoncrazy.com/downloads/music/canyonero.mp3


.

[Scott Card]

Hey now, I love my Tundra. Does everything I want it to like.... take me off road to canyons, haul all my gear to canyons including the kitchen sink if truck camping, haul all my home renovation stuff around, tow horse trailers full of mulch around for my father in law, comfortable ride on the freeway, pull out stumps, etc.... etc.... Problem free ride so far (two years and 40 k plus miles) too. I won't ever own one of those motel 6's on wheel trailers so I won't be towing it. I don't care to own a boat, I'll rent one if I want one, and I don't want a horses so I won't really be towing anything heavy. So I am dandy with my Tundra... and careful Ice, you keep up the smack about Tundra's and you can get out walk next time :lol8:

[Iceaxe]

careful Ice, you keep up the smack

Funny story.....

This was back when I owned a 2wd Chevy PU. I was putting in my new yard and the area was pretty sandy..... anyhoo... I got the Chevy truck stuck in the sand in the front yard.

The neighbor who I always talked smack with owned a big lifted Ford 4x4 and told me he would pull me out..... provided I let him take a picture.

I told him no way in hell would that ever happen..... I would rather dig the truck out then get towed by a Ford....

Long story short.... I got the garden hose, sprayed water on the sand and just drove the truck out of the sand while the neighbor drank a beer and watched.... we both laughed about that incident for years afterwords.

:five:

[Joe Gardner]

I drive a chipped 2006 turbo diesel VW Jetta (http://www.joe-gardner.com/road-trip/more/foggy-road.jpg).

Best car I have ever owned, hands down. I expect to get 300,000 miles out of this car. Cruise control at 80mph gets me 44mpg, cruise at 60mph gets me 63mpg, my last tank of fuel lasted 614 miles.

The little 1.9 diesel engine puts out 210lbs of torque, more then enough to break the tires loose in first and 2nd gear. No problems passing big semis when loaded up with 5 people and all there camping gear for a long weekend.

Fun car to drive, I'm 100% sold on diesels. :D

[derstuka]

Scott, are you pissed off or something again???

Pissed off? :ne_nau: Why did you think that? What's wrong the tone of this conversation or the subject matter? Haven't heard anyone pissed in the thread.

It was just something we were discussing on another forum and I brought up in another thread on this uutah.com forum and I thought I'd move it here for some conversation (since it was off topic on the other thread). No pissed off tone here. :ne_nau:


Yes, Ford, Chrysler, and GM do suffer behind Toyota and Honda several catagories, but they are better than they used to be. The BIG THREE did not take the japanese seriously many years ago, and now because of that (and the UAW and it's inefficiency) we are still paying for that poor judgement. Years ago, japanese cars used to be pieces of junk, but the japanese have learned since then, and are now leading the way. In a way, you can thank them, because without the competition from Japan, american cars would still be as bad as they were in the 80's.

All the above is true.


Forgive me, I thought you were "hell bent" or something today. Nothing wrong with a debate/discussion. The big three frustrates me with their actions/inactions, so I just try not to think of it that much.

[desertrat222]

Ford isn't the only one. Even the new dinky and small Chevy Cobalt only gets 25/34 miles per gallon. It only a little less mileage as a Honda Accord, but much smaller (20% less passenger volume) and with a less powerful engine. Extremely poor quality too and one of the worst new cars for mechanical reliability.

PS the Cobalt isn't in the same automotive sales segment as the accord!!! the accord is more like the Malibu, that's why the accord would be so much larger then the cavalier oops i mean cobalt.

Yeah I'm old School I'm a proud American :2thumbs: with all Domestic vehicles... I beat the piss out of my trucks, i pound the west desert dirt roads hard!!! like 80 MPH over ruff terrain, over load them and haul 10.5 old heavy camper with a 3' extension hitch for a 27' enclosed trailer loaded to the gills with OHV's firewood, gas, tools, several coolers to last 5 days in the desert, ETC with them and they hold up good!!! I'm not to sure the newer SUV's will take this abuse but all my American vehicles have in the past! I'll pay more, get less millage all with a smile to drive Domestic=)
Dirt bikes are another story Japanese are the kings!!!! not to be confused with China POS stuff..... Austria KTM have Awesome bikes " I have 2 right now" and may surpass Japanese bikes soon, but I believe japan builds the most reliable Dirt bikes and Quads right now!

PS I did just put a Subaru 2.5L engine in my sandrail and do love it!!!!!! rumor is these motors are indestructible! My friend's turbo got sucked into the topend of the motor putting metal shavings in the engine and he changed the oil like 5 times and had gotten 2 more seasons out of the motor last time i spoke with him!

I don't think you can go wrong buying a Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Chevrolet, dodge, Ford, Mazda we are so fortunate to be having this conversation with all the options we have!!!!! Be thank full!!!

[Scott P]

PS the Cobalt isn't in the same automotive sales segment as the accord!!! the accord is more like the Malibu, that's why the accord would be so much larger then the cavalier oops i mean cobalt.

Exactly. That's why the Cobalt should be getting better gas mileage. It's a much smaller and less powerful car, yet it gets slightly worse gas mileage. Good you bring up the Mailbu. It too is less powerful and roomy than the Accord and gets worse gas mileage, at least comparing I-4 to I-4 and V-6 to V-6.


Yeah I'm old School I'm a proud American with all Domestic vehicles...

Are you sure?

Accords are built in the USA. Same with Toyota Tundras, Tacomas, Titan, etc.

Most Dodge trucks are now built in Mexico. Most Chevy ones in Canada. Most Ford Trucks are built in the USA though. Many vehicles from the big 3 aren't built in the USA.

Of course Canada is considered domestic on the stickers. See more for more info and to learn more if interested:

http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=4021986

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/05/08/the-content-gap-is-closing-between-domestic-and-foreign-vehi/

[KillEmAll]

My '05 Toyota Sienna was designed, engineered and built in the good ol' USA, so I don't feel too bad for buying a jap-o-mobile.

[psl53]

Hey I got 160,000 miles on my cummins and only thing I had to do is replace the fuel pump. It gets 20 mpg and drop to 16 or 17 while towing a 7000lb boat. Those Toyotas are great rides, but I'm running the wheels off my Dodge, when I get up to 300,000 or 350,000 miles I'll start looking around. My other car is a VW Touareg and it's a four wheeling sob. It's locked front and rear and will tow 6500lbs. Got 30,000 miles and so far I'm a happy camper.