I Shouldn't Be Alive- Utah episode- tonite

[donny h]

Friday night, that is, at 11 on the Discovery Channel.

I think I heard on this board that this episode was coming up, it's the story of two brothers and their ordeal at baptist Draw.

http://climb-utah.com/SRS/baptist1.htm

[donny h]

Um, at 10pm, is another Utah show, same channel, this one is called Man vs Wild, Bear Grylis faces the heat in Moab, Utah.

Never heard of him.

These two shows are repeated at 2 and 3am

[tanya]

Um, at 10pm, is another Utah show, same channel, this one is called Man vs Wild, Bear Grylis faces the heat in Moab, Utah.

Never heard of him.

These two shows are repeated at 2 and 3am

Are you guys watching this!!?!?!?! Would you have gone into that slot without a rope?

[tanya]

DAAAAAANNNNG!!!! No wonder I dont' like to canyoneer in the winter....

And only go when there are experts like Bo and Shane along! :popcorn: I can't believe they lived through this!

[DickHead]

DAAAAAANNNNG!!!! No wonder I dont' like to canyoneer in the winter....

And only go when there are experts like Bo and Shane along! :popcorn: I can't believe they lived through this!

That red text is hurtin me eyes

[tanya]

That red text is hurtin me eyes


Me too, but I felt red. These guys are going through insane torture! :ne_nau:

[DickHead]

That red text is hurtin me eyes


Me too, but I felt red. These guys are going through insane torture! :ne_nau:

You must be on a different cable/satellite system....I had to dvr the programs they come on at 10 and 11pm, moab first then I shouldn't be alive. Dirty jobs reruns on now on comcast.

[tanya]

That red text is hurtin me eyes


Me too, but I felt red. These guys are going through insane torture! :ne_nau:

You must be on a different cable/satellite system....I had to dvr the programs they come on at 10 and 11pm, moab first then I shouldn't be alive. Dirty jobs reruns on now on comcast.

We have Direct TV .. Satellite... There is not any cable out in the boonies near Zion National Park where I live. At least none of you missed it then. :2thumbs:

[goofball]

did anybody else think this was stupid ? reminded me of geraldo - there's fact in there but it is so overshadowed by the "i wanna be a rock star" attitude that it gets lost. has anyone ever gone DOWN canyon and found theirself at the BOTTOM of a pour off to ascend? i think this show is all about the ratings. your average person, if they listened to this guy would wind up deader quicker.

and it would be nice to hear a show of this nature stress more the importance of going prepared to start w/ so you don't have to boulder a rock 70' above a canyon, or chimney a slick headwall, or try to catch a venomous snake. how about having a map and compass and the skills to use them ? letting people know where you go and when you'll return ? going w/ a partner ?

just thought this was a more of a "i'm a tough guy" show than it was informative.

[DickHead]

did anybody else think this was stupid ? reminded me of geraldo - there's fact in there but it is so overshadowed by the "i wanna be a rock star" attitude that it gets lost. has anyone ever gone DOWN canyon and found theirself at the BOTTOM of a pour off to ascend? i think this show is all about the ratings. your average person, if they listened to this guy would wind up deader quicker.

and it would be nice to hear a show of this nature stress more the importance of going prepared to start w/ so you don't have to boulder a rock 70' above a canyon, or chimney a slick headwall, or try to catch a venomous snake. how about having a map and compass and the skills to use them ? letting people know where you go and when you'll return ? going w/ a partner ?

just thought this was a more of a "i'm a tough guy" show than it was informative.

No kidding. Alot of it, like the helo repel, was pure TV dramatics. And the swim in 50* water. And etc....
I almost threw up when he said the helo couldn't land because of the updrafts. HORSESHIT. Pure, unadulterated horseshit.

[tanya]

did anybody else think this was stupid ? reminded me of geraldo - there's fact in there but it is so overshadowed by the "i wanna be a rock star" attitude that it gets lost. has anyone ever gone DOWN canyon and found theirself at the BOTTOM of a pour off to ascend? i think this show is all about the ratings. your average person, if they listened to this guy would wind up deader quicker.

and it would be nice to hear a show of this nature stress more the importance of going prepared to start w/ so you don't have to boulder a rock 70' above a canyon, or chimney a slick headwall, or try to catch a venomous snake. how about having a map and compass and the skills to use them ? letting people know where you go and when you'll return ? going w/ a partner ?

just thought this was a more of a "i'm a tough guy" show than it was informative.



I agree! Wrong info galore! They need Shane to star in the show :nod: -- if you are talking about the survival in the Moab Desert Show.


Which show are you talking about? The guy trying to survive in the Moab Desert? I thought he was way off in a lot of ways, but if you are talking about the real life remake of the canyoneering... it was what they did -- they made horrible mistakes -- and the guy ended up loosing his leg.

[stefan]

did anybody else think this was stupid ? reminded me of geraldo - there's fact in there but it is so overshadowed by the "i wanna be a rock star" attitude that it gets lost. has anyone ever gone DOWN canyon and found theirself at the BOTTOM of a pour off to ascend? i think this show is all about the ratings. your average person, if they listened to this guy would wind up deader quicker.

and it would be nice to hear a show of this nature stress more the importance of going prepared to start w/ so you don't have to boulder a rock 70' above a canyon, or chimney a slick headwall, or try to catch a venomous snake. how about having a map and compass and the skills to use them ? letting people know where you go and when you'll return ? going w/ a partner ?

just thought this was a more of a "i'm a tough guy" show than it was informative.

jason, this is an interesting take. i didn't see the show (no cable) but from the preview it seemed very dramatic, perhaps excessively so. i think you raise a good point ... i am curious/guessing this show is more about conveying the dramatic event rather than being (at least additionally) educational about how to deal with the situation .... though it would seem appropriate if discovery were to try to tackle both and offer a balance between the dramatic adventure and the realitiy of the situation.

so they didn't emphasize what could have prevented the situation in the end? was it not natural for one to make such conclusions? especially if one is not super familiar with " redrock canyon country?"

now you got me curious.

what are other takes on this?

[tanya]

jason, this is an interesting take. i didn't see the show (no cable) but from the preview it seemed very dramatic, perhaps excessively so. i think you raise a good point ... i am curious/guessing this show is more about conveying the dramatic event rather than being (at least additionally) educational about how to deal with the situation .... though it would seem appropriate if discovery were to try to tackle both and offer a balance between the dramatic adventure and the realitiy of the situation.

so they didn't emphasize what could have prevented the situation in the end? was it not natural for one to make such conclusions? especially if one is not super familiar with " redrock canyon country?"

now you got me curious.

what are other takes on this?

If he is talking about "I am lucky to be alive" that was on last night...

The show interviewed the 2 brothers that went into the canyon and the I think they just tried to show what happened. (as 2 injured and exhausted men remember it) They made so many obvious mistakes. At the end it would have been good to have someone point them out and say what they should have done to have made it a safe trip.

[DickHead]

Just to be clear, I'm talking about the man vs. wild in Moab show. That guy's a talking ass. Clueless! Dangerous! He barely mentioned staying put and waiting for rescue. Overly dramatic BS!!!!!!! Rock hopping, jumping off 20' cliffs, bouldering....all kinds of dangerous things under normal scenerios. If one's in survival mode, the last thing you do is something that may break a leg. Freakin English Buffoon!
Survivorman almost always concentrates on the staying put aspect of survival. Then he covers getting out in a safe and careful manner.

[tanya]

Just to be clear, I'm talking about the man vs. wild in Moab show. That guy's a talking ass. Clueless! Dangerous! He barely mentioned staying put and waiting for rescue. Overly dramatic BS!!!!!!! Rock hopping, jumping off 20' cliffs, bouldering....all kinds of dangerous things under normal scenerios. If one's in survival mode, the last thing you do is something that may break a leg. Freakin English Buffoon!
Survivorman almost always concentrates on the staying put aspect of survival. Then he covers getting out in a safe and careful manner.


I agree! It was way wrong! I can't believe he jumped into a slot canyon (without gear) to look for fresh water!!!! --- Then he swam under a big log jam -- stating he had no idea if he could hold his breath long enough to get to the other side... SCAREY!!!!! He should have got ledged up and stuck in that slot. Can you imagine anyone finding him in there when he was not headed to do a canyon? Chasing a rattlesnake for dinner?!!?!?!?! Climbing to get an egg!?!?!!? I thought it was funny though when he shoved an egg, shell and all in his mouth and peed on his head rag. :lol8:

[Reedus]

I recorded both of them and edited out the commercials. If anyone missed it and wants a copy let me know and I can burn and send them out.

There was a lot of hype in both of them, but I liked the canyoneering aspect of the Moab hike. 50 degree water in a slot canyon in July is pretty common, but what got me was that while going down canyon he came to a dead end. I don't know of any canyon that just dead ends on the DOWNSTREAM side and forces you to chimney 60 feet to the top to get out. But I guess that had to come up with some BS to give an excuse to move on with the show and not have it canyoneering dominated.

The Baptist Draw one was also perplexing. I have never been down Chute past the fault line exit, but I don't think there are any significant rappels or downclimbs the Jeremy would have had to climb back up after missing the fault canyon exit. Also, the fact that Justin had never rapelled before kinda hints that they were newbs to the sport.

[James_B_Wads2000]

On the Man vs. Wild Moab episode: I thought it was entertaining to see a national TV show in Moab. I think there was a couple nuggets of wisdom in there like: head down hill toward water and civilization, using vegetation to find water sources, climb out of quicksand by changing your body angle. But then they did a lot of things for TV drama bs that was extremely dumb. Like enter a technical slot without gear, swimming under the logjam, saying how dangerous it is to travel during the heat of the day and then doing it. The part that was the most stupid is how after he commits himself to the slot he finds a magical canyon that dead ends on the down stream side, does a cool chimney move to get out and then heads blindly across the desert again. Also it is not common for temperatures to exceed 120 F in Moab.

The I Shouldn

[DickHead]

I just finished watching.....what a jackass! Some nuggests, but mostly encouragement for reckless behavior. Typical TV I guess. :frustrated:

[psl53]

On the Man vs. Wild Moab episode: Dude, that's the way I'll be cooking my eggs from now on!!!!
Peter

[donny h]

Man vs Wild= silly ass nonsense.

The highlight of the show was the fact that Bear figured out how to pee on his own head. Neat. For Bear.

I remember now seeing another show with Bear, and it was the same crap, jumping cliffs that don't need to be jumped, swimming icy water that could be forded, inventing drama with the wildlife.

Wouldn't drink water because of a dead squirrel? I guess he's not actually really thirsty.

Aaron Raalston removed a dead raven from the mud puddle that helped save his life.

I wish there was a survival show that focused on local EXPERTS giving advice for particular climates/zones, instead of guys with some training being thrust into different scenes.

I all ready know what a quasi-skilled semi-dumbass would do in those situations, that's me.

[Reedus]

Ya, I will go ahead and call Justin a newb to canyoneering again. The whole never having rappelled before or even put on a harness kinda places him in a newb category. They even said they had never done a technical canyon before. What's more, nothin wrong with calling someone a newb. In fact I consider myself one still. Baptist was my first tech canyon too and I did it solo. Pretty stupid but I would probably still do it again. I guess my luck was just better than the Haris brothers.

Mr. Arrogant :nod:

[tanya]

Ya, I will go ahead and call Justin a newb to canyoneering again. The whole never having rappelled before or even put on a harness kinda places him in a newb category. They even said they had never done a technical canyon before. What's more, nothin wrong with calling someone a newb. In fact I consider myself one still. Baptist was my first tech canyon too and I did it solo. Pretty stupid but I would probably still do it again. I guess my luck was just better than the Haris brothers.

Mr. Arrogant :nod:


I don't see anything arrogant in what you wrote?

I was working on the computer during the show, but glanced up during his first rappel and it seemed they made a point of showing the smaller brother having trouble with it.

People need to understand how dangerous canyoneering can be. You have to be prepared with the right gear for a canyon. You must have what you need to stay warm, do the rappels, do the downclimbs and understand that any canyon can change after the trail description you have read was written or that there might even be errors in the trail description. I don't think anyone but very experienced canyoneers (or at least have one along) should be doing winter canyoneering. On the otherhand even the very best and most experienced can get hurt and make mistakes, but at least they are more prepared to handle those mistakes.

Those two guys are tough! I bet most people would have given up and died. It reminds me of that similar show where Joe (I think was his name) drug himself off a snowy mountain after his partner cut his rope --- thinking he was dead. Mistakes can happen to any of us, but what is incredible is the will of these men to survive.

[Reedus]

I didn't think it was arrogant either. Just statin it as I saw it, but Mr. Wadmeister seems to think so. :ne_nau:

[Reedus]

One more thought that entered my mind. I was trying to think of why they were trying to downclimb those chokes and it occured that maybe after the first rappel, due to lack of experience Justin felt more comfortable with climbing than rappelling? :ne_nau:

[Cirrus2000]

People need to understand how dangerous canyoneering can be. You have to be prepared with the right gear for a canyon. You must have what you need to stay warm, do the rappels, do the downclimbs and understand that any canyon can change after the trail description you have read was written or that there might even be errors in the trail description. I don't think anyone but very experienced canyoneers (or at least have one along) should be doing winter canyoneering. On the otherhand even the very best and most experienced can get hurt and make mistakes, but at least they are more prepared to handle those mistakes.
Rappels are a dangerous thing on their own - I know of at least 2 serious rap accidents this summer in the local area. One fatal, the other causing very serious injury. Every time I rappel, I stop and think and double check everything. A cavalier attitude can be deadly.


Those two guys are tough! I bet most people would have given up and died. It reminds me of that similar show where Joe (I think was his name) drug himself off a snowy mountain after his partner cut his rope --- thinking he was dead. Mistakes can happen to any of us, but what is incredible is the will of these men to survive.
"Touching the Void" by Joe Simpson. I haven't seen the movie, but thoroughly enjoyed the book. Talk about will to survive! Wow! I saw his (rope-cutting) partner, Simon Yates, speaking at the Vancouver International Mountain Film Festival a couple of years back. Interesting speaker.

And Reedus, I see nothing arrogant about calling these guys newbies - sounds like they absolutely were... I'm not saying they were stupid (perhaps naive?) but they certainly didn't sound experienced.


By the way, Reedus, could you check your PM box - I'm interested in getting a copy of the shows. Thanks!

[stefan]

"Touching the Void" by Joe Simpson. I haven't seen the movie, but thoroughly enjoyed the book.

extremely well done, if you enjoyed the book ... you'll certainly enjoy the film.

[tanya]

Rappels are a dangerous thing on their own - I know of at least 2 serious rap accidents this summer in the local area. One fatal, the other causing very serious injury. Every time I rappel, I stop and think and double check everything. A cavalier attitude can be deadly.

"Touching the Void" by Joe Simpson. I haven't seen the movie, but thoroughly enjoyed the book. Talk about will to survive! Wow! I saw his (rope-cutting) partner, Simon Yates, speaking at the Vancouver International Mountain Film Festival a couple of years back. Interesting speaker.

And Reedus, I see nothing arrogant about calling these guys newbies - sounds like they absolutely were... I'm not saying they were stupid (perhaps naive?) but they certainly didn't sound experienced.

By the way, Reedus, could you check your PM box - I'm interested in getting a copy of the shows. Thanks!

Was that the climber whos belt broke recently? Yes, check.. check and double check!

That's it! It was a TV documentary, rather than a movie, but it was awesome!

[goofball]

The Baptist Draw one was also perplexing. I have never been down Chute past the fault line exit, but I don't think there are any significant rappels or downclimbs the Jeremy would have had to climb back up after missing the fault canyon exit. Also, the fact that Justin had never rapelled before kinda hints that they were newbs to the sport.

down canyon of teh fault line chute does have drops to dc or rap. we missed that fault line canyon ourselves and it was broad daylight. it would be REAL easy to miss at night. i thought this show was great, showed the consequences of miscalculations compounded by bad conditions. could happen to ANYone. i really sympathize w/ those brothers. they have had an experience that has changed the very cores of their being.

i think that loop is a good noob route though. its kinda a big rap, but otherwise it is a perfeect noob intro.

[Cirrus2000]

Was that the climber whos belt broke recently? Yes, check.. check and double check!
No, other accidents. Subjectively, there seems to have been a rash of accidents lately, some in our local climbing areas, and people that I know of - not personally, but friends of friends. Very sobering.

[shaggy125]

The Baptist Draw one was also perplexing. I have never been down Chute past the fault line exit, but I don't think there are any significant rappels or downclimbs the Jeremy would have had to climb back up after missing the fault canyon exit.

Actually if you continue down Chute past the fault line exit there is a series of 3 - 5 rappels. According to beta I either got from Tom Jones' site or Tom himself (I don't remember which) the raps can appear and disappear depending on chokestones getting jammed and washed away. Some of these I hear are difficult but downclimbable (which it sounds like the dude in the show did before being forced to climb back up). The drops are also mentioned in Kelsey's book. I think Tom's site has a description of a full Chute canyon which I'm told is very deep and pretty with a few rappels thrown in for fun.

Eric.

[Reedus]

Ya, I have always wanted to do all of Chute, but the logistics of a shuttle are kinda sketchy. If I was going to put the time into doing a shuttle, I would place my time and energy into Scott's Gem canyon system. It has always intrigued me from his TRs.

[Iceaxe]

On a side note is this the rock where Justin Harris fell?

I don't know for sure.... but I was always under the impression that the picture you posted is where the accident occurred.

I have always considered the Baptist/Chute loop to be a good route for technical beginners. I don't think the brothers really did anything wrong other then fall and break a leg.

I also liked the show and thought it was well done.

I was emailing with Tricia Harris (Justin's Wife) recently and she told me Justin is writing a book, but they haven't approached any publishers as of yet. She also mentioned that Justin has been doing some motivational speaking.

http://uutah.com/forum/files/p8130095.jpg

[Reedus]

That is too bad that they hung it up after losing a leg. I don't think an artificial limb could keep me from the canyons. That stuff is too addicting. I think if I was Justin or Jeremy I would wanna go back and revisit the infamous place.

[Iceaxe]

I think if I was Justin Harris I would stay out of the Swell.... first he loses his truck and then his leg. Not sure if its worth risking anther visit.

Here is the story and a couple pictures of anther Justin experiance.

LWH Flash Flood
http://climb-utah.com/SRS/flashflood.htm

http://climb-utah.com/SRS/Files/FlashFlood01.jpg

http://climb-utah.com/SRS/Files/FlashFlood04.jpg