New Zion Canyoneering Book

[Iceaxe]

Hey.... I just spyed this interesting little item.

http://canyoneeringusa.com/shop/images/ZionBook.jpg

Some interesting tid-bits: The new canyoneering book covers canyons in Zion and the adjacent lands. There are 9 on-trail hikes, 8 off-trail (non-technical) canyons, and 32 technical canyon adventures detailed, a few of which have not really been public before.

You can get the details and place an order here:

http://canyoneeringusa.com/shop/view_product.php?product=IML000signed

So.... what do you think? Will a hidden gem be revealed? Anyone want to try and predict the canyons and routes that will be detailed?

:popcorn:

[stefan]

:2thumbs:

[James_B_Wads2000]

Here is my guesses, feel free to edit in out one you dissagree on.

1. Imlay
2. Heap
3. Spry
4. Pine Creek
5. Birch Hollow
6. Behunin
7. Kolob
8. Eye of the Needle
9. Battle Creek
10. Boundary
11. Employee
12. Telephone
13. Echo
14. Mystery
15. Misery
16. Englestead
17. Das Boot
18. Keyhole
19. Orderville
20. Right Fork Great West
21. Goose Creek
22. Icebox
23. Poverty Wash
24. Hammerhead?
25. Bear Claw?
26. Too Wet?
27. Hidden from the Top?
28. Red Hollow?
29. Rock Canyon?
30. Kanarra?
31. Chasm Lake?
32. ?????????

[Iceaxe]

Chasm has some serious private property issues. I don't think Tom would post that unless he has worked out access.

Maybe Rock, but I don't think Tom was really impressed with the route he used. Rock would not be that great without the Parunuweap section. Doesn't mean he didn't do it or it won't be in the book.

Hammerhead I would just call a variation to an existing route. Probably not worthy of a section all its own.

I believe Too Wet also has some Private Property isses.

Goose is closed so I doubt he would include that. He would take the same beating Kelsey took over posting closed Navajo Canyons.

Tom didn't really like Red Hollow, it also now suffers from some private property issues, but the issues are not to difficult and they could be worked out I believe if someone wanted to spend a day talking with land owners.

:popcorn:

[marc olivares]

Dear marc olivares,

Thank you for the following order placed on 09/21/06 at 22:09




just pre-ordered my signed copy :2thumbs:
gotta throw my support to keep the beta masters goin'

[Millcreek 3640]

Guesses Galore? As to canyons? Tom's new epistle.

My curiosity relates the writing style and nuance of the guide. Hiking naturalist related piece or climbing style paint by the numbers? I got to edit portions - long ago, but imagine drafts have come and gone. Photos should be nice and text hopefully well organized.

For the newly initiated to zion, another guide to the backcountry. This along with Shane's zion text and another missive by a park employee. And the on trail and backcountry trail guides still sold.

But don't hold your breath, everything in tom's new piece and much or all that's in Shane's, will summarily be closely reviewed and then copied by by that shadowy "controversial" character residing in Utah County - in his forthcoming cyn tech II - MK. Yes, more taming of formerly wild country - cause for celebration or remorse?

Canyons: not listed by the "meek" moderator?
Hidden Canyon
Great White
N/Main Oak
Russell Gulch
Bulloch Gulch
Deep Creek (side cyn)
Jacob Canyon
Corral Hollow

* Eye of the Needle, and "Tom's" Battle Creek
are the same S Fork Oak Creek Cyn.

There was a good deal of debate by Park people, seasoned canyoneers and other interested parties that lobbied to include or not various corridors. I'll be interested to see what the off record comments are of various recreation and natural resource officials in the park.

Tom riding sky high; web site guide, canyon store, keeper of the canyons - bolts, slings, chains; canyon posting and now published author. I'm happy for him! His day in the sun and next year, shane can update his guide and then newly shine.

Hopefully Tom sells LOTS OF BOOKS and canyon gear!
Printing and publishing a book costs big time MONEY..and the size
of the audience that will view or buy the text - major, meager/minor or
a big unknown. I wish him economic viability. And I wish the newly
discovered and defrocked canyons plenty of vital health too.

SL SLC

[stefan]

But don't hold your breath, everything in tom's new piece and much or all that's in Shane's, will summarily be closely reviewed and then copied by by that shadowy "controversial" character residing in Utah County - in his forthcoming cyn tech II - MK. Yes, more taming of formerly wild country - cause for celebration or remorse?


hmm, i don't know if "tame" is exactly the work i would use to describe the effect of the books and descriptions of michael r. kelsey.

you try to suggest that this land is no longer wild ... the land is as it was before, perhaps with some additional trails and some damage and wear. what HAS changed primarily is what is in our minds. if you call this tame, so be it. however, i consider taming something far different from becoming more familiar with it. by bolting up a canyon or placing ladders it's most certainly possible to 'tame' a canyon. but by giving information about a canyon, especially as cursory as that given by MK, one is hardly changing the canyon or the land itself [aside from tire tracks, foot prints and the damage by such traffic ... okay yeah garbage, fecal matter, and other stuff too but,] ... only the way your mind perceives the canyon is fundamentally being changed.

to suggest that knowledge of the land tames the land is a human centric view. rather we are taming our notion of exploration of the land, but not the land itself. there is a major difference here.

i think the most compelling argument against the approach of michael kelsey is that it removes the mystery and the unknown. what are the obstacles, does the route go, what does one need? does it tame? no. i don't equate loss of mystery with taming. Course it does lead you to wonder about the rest of the unknown and in some sense it could promote mystery, but he seems to be aiming for a comprehensive tome of everything great and pretty great. and one day, we will have excessive disclosure of these wonderous lands. some say we already have, others are happy with more information.

another example, steck and butchard reveal some of the most unknown routes in the grand canyon and their descriptions demonstrate that these routes are doable, if you can handle the difficulties ... however, i would NEVER consider the effect of such descriptions to have TAMED this terrain ... this terrain is as wild and as dangerous as it was before they wrote these descriptions. and doing these routes you're likely to be exhausted and/or scared.

[capn_blasto]

Arrrgghhh!j I don't know who this guy thinks he is writing a freaking guidebook to Zion which is already overloaded with permit systems, Gumbies dropping like flies. Like Zion needs more publicity? The Cap'n predicts trouble ahead. Probably from New Jersey!

[capn_blasto]

Hopefully Tom sells LOTS OF BOOKS and canyon gear!SL SLC

NOT! Let's hope the park refuses to carry it in the bookstore! What a freakin' waste of paper.

[Millcreek 3640]

A certain sign of ____, well Autumn I suppose.

A loss of IMAGINATION - how does it happen...so easily.
in this self-absorbed, self-centered, materialistic society of ours.

Imagining what another might have meant or felt,
Imagining what another sees or felt they saw,
and accepting that others might have another point of view.
Just amazing, this loss, of imagination (and care really)

FIRST -Tom Jone's Zion book sales:
A. Tom Jones is a friend who I care about.
B. I care about him, his health and his economic vitality.
C. I hope he sells a zillion books....truly!
D. But I care about Zion and the wondrous wild lands within and around.
E. So is there irony in ones wish - or is there another avenue
such that various interests can be served and preserved?
F. Maybe those million books can be sold to rest homes, and
aging adventurers can dream of days gone by.
G. Books could be sold to libraries and sit unseen on shelves.
H. Books could be sold to disabled veterans or accident victims
whose loss of limb prevents travel into technical canyons - but
still the book preserves a dream. Other examples abound.

Conclusion- Tom's book sales:

Maybe I KNOW (or feel) zion canyons are already over run with too many
canyoneers - the resource management and recreation planners are
at wits end - and so the benefit of another book? Well, I give Tom the
slack I hope he'd give me - I, we take another breath and move on.
I spend a whole lot more time canyoneering OUT OF ZION than
I did 4 years ago. Anyway, hooray for Tom, and let's protect the
resource of Zion Canyon too! (can you imagine that?) Yes, I hug Tom
and care about the resource of Zion Canyon too. crazy aye?

SECOND - TAMING WILD LANDS
Or better - now stated - taming ones thoughts and feelings?

Amazing having person A tell person B how they supposedly see and feel. And providing a diorama - cognitive showing of how one should see, feel and speak. My language diagrams and metaphors don't need to match an others when I talk about wild lands being trampled and then
to suggest - "Oh it's mostly mental? Oh humpty dumpty sat on a great wall...

I sense some have not much of a clue as to what I was "hinting at."
Mostly the physical but very much the mental too - wild lands.
And so there was dodging and denial and lack of insight by some,
when they announced how I should describe and see this promotion public land debate?

Well, so much for imagination - I try to divine what others say and feel.
People love to speak, but can they listen?

Disregard the flawed human psyche for a minute. Scan the far reaches of the land and resource.

In our recent colorado plateau age ancient native americans - set up routes, storage, living quarters and left waste - in some corners, corridors were tamed.

The pre and post WWII uranium boom lent vehicles, maps, bulldozers, machinery and then the inquisition of ubiquitous roads all over the formerly wild colorado plateau - more taming. A legion of authors post WW2, Stegner one of the chief protagonists - romanticized the whole of the CP. And then Abbey launched Desert Solitaire and folk crept from all corners of the US to see and experience the CP. State's travel bureaus touted routes, new highways were developed and exposed and ranching interests plowed more roads into untrammeled corridors. Fast forward to
Steve Allen's three texts, Kelsey's countless mountain and desert texts,
the internet, digital imagery, electronic bulletin boards and then web sites by folk such as shane and tom. More bodies, more foot steps, more machinery, more impact on the fragile land - and canyons.

Still - disregard the mental and look at what's happened to the land,
every decade since 1940 up to the present.

Folk like Dennis Turville ventured into Kolob, Imlay, Goosecreek in the 60's.Bolts appeared and in small part the wildness disappeared. Deer, Cougar, raptors ventured into some of these corridors, but otherwise evidence of humans prior to this was nearly non-existent.

Visit any region - Escalante, San Raphael, Robbers Roost, White - Dark Canyon. Roads, cattle, sheep, ranching and some mining all impacted the land. But the tight corners of technical canyons, mostly wild and mostly non visited. And then Allen, Kelsey....

Are there exceptions to this proliferation of promotion and it's impact on public lands? And does the exception swallow the whole, and suggest that if promotion in one corner preserves the land, then promotion by all must do the same? Well, I don't imagine!

The land, the resource takes a beating in some corridors - all because of promotion. Conversely some points and vistas are promoted, and the land seems to preserve or at least mostly heal year after
year.

If one spends time in corridors where he/she senses the land barely
impacted and healed then that view certainly will mentally opine
that promotion has done little to mar the resource.

But imagine, spend time in country that formerly had NO user trails, NO Black skid marks on walls, NO deep rope cuts in the navajo sandstone. Visit a watery canyon corridor that had NO ATV's, No horseback riders and NO NOLES or Outward bound visitors. And then come round a corner in an an obscure Escalante canyon and wala - there is Steve Allen with an entourage of a mere 12 other souls tramping in front and back country - and this was back in the 80's.

Zion planners balance social impacts, resource impacts and safety concerns when they look at the "users" scrambling all over the front and backcounty landscape of zion.

And increasing other land planners in other corridors are doing the same. Ask them privately, "Is the land impacted by the likes of internet canyon promoters, allen, kelsey, shane, tom or others alike?" I've sat and listened in park, blm and forest service offices. There are some VERY strong views.

Now as to the flawed human mind. What are the images and feelings one conjures in perceived wild vs. trampled lands. And how much does experience, perception and expectation come into play?

If I visit the moon after marauding moon men have trampled that place for a thousand years, will my perception slide to the point that I still say and feel it is wild?

Standing in the backcountry of the Maze - Canyonlands, and two young Europeans come round the corner - they gape in awe, "this is wild - like another world - just incredible." But then I tell them, No it's not like it was 20 years ago. Oh well.

The mind will ALWAYS be a variable amongst us humans. And we will see, feel, perceive and transmit our own private and often times selfish point of view. The horseback rider with a train of animals announces they are in God's country. ATV riders launch by the hundreds round Factory Butte. As the sterling sunset fades they stand and salute - more of God's country.

I visited the Wind Rivers a few weeks back, spent half my time, off trail above the timber line in rough stark terrain. I know others have crossed this territory but still it had the LOOK - and to ME the feel of Wild Country.

Kudos to the human heart and mind. Can we not only embrace others but have a reverence for the land and landscape that we adore? If it is beaten or abused, let it rest!

But then that clarion call and a legion of lemmings arrive at a new canyon - I/we want to experience this new canyon - yes new canyons year after year. Got to feed the frenzy, feel the pulse, all in search of the holy grail.
What's the mindset on this mannerism counselor? The zest for exploration, a maddening lust for something new that transcends the stale, or following the crowd?? - and who cares about the consequence? (what
consequence many would say.)

And to the legion of public land promoters.
I simply accept and mostly enjoy the curious quad
of Allen, Kelsey, Shane and Tom. All are so bright,
so inventive, so interesting, mostly fun, full of laughter,
full of life, and always full of surprises. I consider
Shane and Tom as friends. I respect and accept
who they are.

I don't understand the cognitive mapping of any other.
And I truly don't know an others heart or temperament
that well.

I do know that it takes lots of listening, listening,
and more listening before I really sense the intent and
direction of an others words and lines. Other times quick
intuition seems to solidly remind.

Anyway folk, I don't have this wild lands, timing, requisite mindset
and promotion panoply figured out. 10 days ago I had a most
splendid time visiting two canyons on the upper zion plateau.
We had a most splendid camp, great food and plenty of jolly
laughter after we'd exhausted ourselves over two days. Descending,
ascending, descending, ascending. Like a skiers 1,000 - 2K vertical.
No kidding - at times it plumed the depths of exhaustion. Still I saw
the event for what it was - two very good days - and recognized
what it wasn't - anything much more than just, two good days.

Three weeks ago at Mirror Lake in the High Uinta's I joined with
Dick Carter and Margaret Pettis and about 40 other High Uintas
Preservation Council members. When we concluded our meal,
chat and discussion we walked a quarter mile to the east, stood
on the edge of a cliff - while I shot photos - and then all initiated
a howl - beckoning wild wolves, wild critters and the re-birth of
wild lands in the High Uintas ecosystem. No wolves howled back
but there was a most lively human spirit on display.

And yet as we walked back I heard some campers sitting nearby announce.

"Oh, what you folk did is so weird." Yes, we were a parade of flawed humans - wishing and willing that day - nothing more.

I spent part of last eve with two partners who I'd joined with two weeks
ago - we were all still feeling the glee - and hoping weather holds
so we can enjoy more. But we also enjoy parts of work, our community,
our friends, our faiths and adore our families - but that gravity, that darn
pull it's always prompting - nature the outdoors, I can hear the howl.

Yes, good to be alive, to see & feel the outdoors - if that's where
the pull and your heart often takes you.

And that "newest legion of footprints" on former wild lands? It's either there or it's not - and it's a physical fact or merely a figment of ones (wild) (mental) imagination.

SL in SLC

[stefan]

SECOND - TAMING WILD LANDS



zing! zing! and flowery zing!

i simply opined that my interpretation of the word tame was likely different from yours. i didn't quite presume to deliver to you the meaning of your message. the word tame simply struck me. i offered a different point of view. metaphors, imagination, and listening are great things ... zing yet again.

sorry for my myopically literal interpretation and sharp tone, i was frustrated with work at the time. i simply thought the word tame was too strong to equate with physical impact on the land. furthermore i thought that for some it may reflect externalization, that is, projection of the effect on the mind to the land itself.

[Iceaxe]

Anyone received a copy of this book yet? If so, how about a short review?

:cool2:

[Scott Card]

Nope, still waiting....... :popcorn:

[marc olivares]

i got a chance to thumb through Tom's book at IME today.
they had just gotten a few in while we were standing there talking to Scott.
looks like a great beta source....

cant wait until mine comes in the mail :2thumbs:

[stefan]

got mine in the mail yesterday.

VERY nice book. well written. nice introductions!!, great descriptions, excellent maps. the b/w photos are great and there is even an interlude of tom's wonderful photoswild in color! the book also includes a nice section on selected accident reports.

it has a nice balance between more advanced on and off trail hiking and tech canyoneering. it is augmented by variations to a number of hikes, whose presentation is simple and effective. the tech canyoneering descriptions are concise and well organized.

highly recommended

:2thumbs:

[tanya]

got mine in the mail yesterday.

VERY nice book. well written. nice introductions!!, great descriptions, excellent maps. the b/w photos are great and there is even an interlude of tom's wonderful photoswild in color! the book also includes a nice section on selected accident reports.

it has a nice balance between more advanced on and off trail hiking and tech canyoneering. it is augmented by variations to a number of hikes, whose presentation is simple and effective. the tech canyoneering descriptions are concise and well organized.

highly recommended

:2thumbs:


Which canyons and Trails did he put in the book?

[marc olivares]

Which canyons and Trails did he put in the book?

well now Tanya, youre just gonna have to buy one to find out... :haha:
(actually to many to list)

got mine in the mail yesterday too, very nicely put together.
the Das Boot story made me laugh.

[stefan]

:lol8: :lol8:

but if you do get a copy of it tanya, at the very beginning there is a wonderful chart of all the hikes in the book with interesting information about them ... something authors like mike kelsey and steve allen have avoided doing.

[tanya]

Which canyons and Trails did he put in the book?

well now Tanya, youre just gonna have to buy one to find out... :haha:
(actually to many to list)

got mine in the mail yesterday too, very nicely put together.
the Das Boot story made me laugh.

Bo has one for me this morning, so I should see is in a few minutes when I meet him to hike today. :nod: I like that Das Boot story... Scarey but funny since he lived!

[tanya]

:lol8: :lol8:

but if you do get a copy of it tanya, at the very beginning there is a wonderful chart of all the hikes in the book with interesting information about them ... something authors like mike kelsey and steve allen have avoided doing.


Yes, I think that was a last minute add. Someone in the Canyons group that proofed it strongly suggested doing it. Was it Hank?

[tanya]

The book is excellent. There are 49 hikes/canyons in the book, but some are variations of the same one. (Like Subway from the bottom and top, etc...) There are a few classic Zion hikes listed, but most of the stuff is a canyon.

A few treats: Grotto Canyon, Hidden Canyon from the top, Corral Hollow, Spearhead Canyon, RF of GWC, Boundary Canyon, SF Oak Creek.

I like the format and its far easier to use than other canyon guide books that are out. I like the maps too. Overall - Tom did a great job.

[Iceaxe]

A few treats: Grotto Canyon, Hidden Canyon from the top, Corral Hollow, Spearhead Canyon, RF of GWC, Boundary Canyon, SF Oak Creek.

I haven't seen the book yet..... but I don't know if I would call Corral, Grotto or Spearhead treats......

.... heck, they are almost as good as Behunin :lol8:

But it is nice that some new stuff was released to help spread the pressure.

:2thumbs:

[tanya]

A few treats: Grotto Canyon, Hidden Canyon from the top, Corral Hollow, Spearhead Canyon, RF of GWC, Boundary Canyon, SF Oak Creek.

I haven't seen the book yet..... but I don't know if I would call Corral, Grotto or Spearhead treats......

.... heck, they are almost as good as Behunin :lol8:

But it is nice that some new stuff was released to help spread the pressure. I am going to carry them in my store. I should get more of yours. I have been out of them for a very LONG time!

:2thumbs:


Yeah.. he did not rate them high, but at least they are sort of different from the usual Zion classics. Tom listed you, in the book, as someone that helped with it. I assume!?!?! you will be getting a signed copy in the mail soon. :2thumbs:

I like Behunin! :haha:

[Iceaxe]

Tom listed you, in the book, as someone that helped with it.

Dang.... now I'll have to buy a copy :lol8:

:2thumbs:

[Brian in SLC]

A few treats: Grotto Canyon, Hidden Canyon from the top, Corral Hollow, Spearhead Canyon, RF of GWC, Boundary Canyon, SF Oak Creek.
I haven't seen the book yet..... but I don't know if I would call Corral, Grotto or Spearhead treats......
.... heck, they are almost as good as Behunin

Well, Tom doesn't say that Grotto is a treat, in fact, he kinda discourages descending it. Gets no stars.

Both Corral Hollow and Spearhead get two stars each, I seem to recall (on a scale of none to three). Both are fine canyons. You won't have to stand in line for them, to be sure.

I'd probably put both of them in the top 15 in Zion, as far as "canyons to do", but, at the bottom of that list. Still worth and if folks are looking for seldom done, and solitude, they punch that ticket.

Have you done any of these canyons, Shane?

Fun to look at the list, though. I think there's only a couple (Grotto, Hidden, Isaac, das Boot) that I haven't done. Grotto ain't at the top of my "to do" list.

Fine guidebook. Turned out great.

-Brian in SLC

[tanya]

Fun to look at the list, though. I think there's only a couple (Grotto, Hidden, Isaac, das Boot) that I haven't done. Grotto ain't at the top of my "to do" list.

Fine guidebook. Turned out great.

-Brian in SLC

You must do Das Boot! Its my favorite Canyon!!!! Its just plain fun with all the little downclimbs. I love it. For those who have not seen it.....


http://www.zionnational-park.com/images/albums/index74.htm

[Iceaxe]

Have you done any of these canyons, Shane?

From what I understand is in Tom's book after reading this thread.... the canyons I have not done are Spear, Isaac and Grotto.

I still have not seen the book, I plan to pick up a copy in the near future.

And yeah.... I think spreading the pressure out is a good thing. I'd prefer to do a new one star route over a 3 star route I have already done several times.

:rockon:

[Brian in SLC]

From what I understand is in Tom's book after reading this thread.... the canyons I have not done are Spear, Isaac and Grotto.
I still have not seen the book, I plan to pick up a copy in the near future.
And yeah.... I think spreading the pressure out is a good thing. I'd prefer to do a new one star route over a 3 star route I have already done several times.

I hear rumor the usual soiree is scheduled again for pre x-mas, possibly the 15th or so. Said rumor also indicated books to be available there.

Yeah, I'd rather pick off a canyon I haven't done rather than one I have, exception being a time constraint or lack of energy for a high entry fee. Although, I really enjoy doing some of the classics again and again.

Too funny about Spearhead, though. No approach beta. Big commitment on the drop in too.

Was a few notable canyons left out. Didn't put in Birch Creek or Jacob (or Abraham for that matter, since we're covering the court empty-ers). Or Kip's secret canyon numbers 1-47. Probably a few Tom has yet to pluck. Stuff on the north side of Orderville. Etc.

Both entries to Heaps and Icebox are listed. Kinda cool.

And...he did put in Goose Creek, although its closed. Darn shame. That's a great canyon (and one of the few like it, ala Kolob although not as neat and rapid fire as Kolob, it still travels good distance similarly).

-Brian in SLC

[Iceaxe]

Or Kip's secret canyon numbers 1-47.

:haha: Kip could probably write a Zion trilogy to rival Lord of the Rings.

If fact.... I thought Kip was writing a Zion book. But it was going to focus on the history?

Yeah, my plan is to pick up one of Tom's books in person. I'm like you in that I like to collect signed editions.

:popcorn:

[bruce from bryce]

Is Not Mystery in the book?

Was talking with the chief ranger here yesterday and he mentioned this one. I guess this is the one that people (Shane, Tom, etc.) warn about dropping into as there is no way out except through a SAR or carrying a very long rope.

[Iceaxe]

"Not Imlay" has also been responsible for a couple of rescues.

When taking the short cut you are in Not Imlay after crossing through the first saddle.

Here are some pictures and info on a Not Mystery rescue.
http://climb-utah.com/Zion/zionrescue1.htm

:cool2:

[Millcreek 3640]

Tom's New Zion Canyoneering Book.
Mine came as gift in the mail Saturday (Dec 2, 06)
Organized text, very nice photos and generally well done.

His book - a labor of love, and a matter of principal.
The Keeper of the canyons in Zion - spent $, got donations
and loans - and now has some 7k plus books available for
distribution to the public. The principal relates in part
to his clebrity ascendency as "The Voice" in Zion Cyn corridors.
Some would say he was already there, but the ubiquitous
spread of the text will greatly enliven his legend and
historical image.

I am happy for Tom - on the whole - his book is a nice introduction
to budding canyoneers that may wish to leap into the confines of the zion arena. A blessing as they contour or dodge the current permit system. Some will quickly evolve a tick list and hopefully pay requisite dues before launching into *Kolob Imlay and particularly Heaps. (*with "prudent " water levels & air temps, and proper insulation, Kolob can be serene and not "so serious or severe.")

I should note. There are other - zion cyn - living legends in the Springdale,
St. George and Cedar City (even Wasatch Front) areas. They have
travelled atop and through mesas, corridors and canyons - way beyond
what Tom has. But none (other than Shane or to a small degree Kelsey)
have done technical cyn books relating to zion. And most would never
dream or think of creating a web site, canyoneering blog or book.
Just not part and parcel of their psychological alchemy.

And so to have the experience and technical tenure; and do a book (pay for a book) or not do a book - is that the measure of a man (or woman)?

Illusory question in this age of burgeoning web exhibitionists(ism)
which really is no longer "fringe behaviour." Where according to some,
"People seem to crave popularity or celebrity more than they fear
the loss of privacy" in the growing website & blogosphere of the internet.
"Self revelation and attitude are what seem to appeal."

Over the past two decades, my close friend Alexis Kelner has produced sterling ski tour books with his partner Dave Hanscomb and by word of mouth ascended into the halls of legend in many ski circles. But I've another close friend, Bob Athey, "The Wizard of the Wasatch" who has
been an ardent devotee of ski backountry that has "lived" on the snow for the past three decades. He knows the backcountry in ways neither Alexis nor Dave could, and his experience trumps all - but a few? But Bob has NO book; he now has a web site though and is creating his own legend. And his spirited style too - that has chisled an image of it's own.

In the past few months I've noted a handful of local experienced canyoneers with a soft hand at the internet and video or digital cam.
New Web sites, blogs, and natural evolution to what - maybe more books?
Possibly more unleashed celebrity cyn legends? Abbey, Allen, Kelsey, Burrows, Jones, Ram....well the list just grows. (Ryan, Eric, Greg...
and my!; Wyo Dave unleashed a flash of new celebrity in just the better
part of the past two seasons.)

Borrowing a theme of writer Robert Samuelson; Thoreau famously remarked that the "mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation."
"Technology no longer makes that necessary. People can now lead lives of noisy and ostentatous desperation...or at least they can try."

I don't know what to think of this blinding technical age of ours.
Once upon a time every thing - outdoor ventures - was word of mouth, and then..humpty dumpty had a great a fall, or Alice fell into another hole?
As I said in earlier notes on this site - it's now Tom's day in the sun,
let he and his book shine. I'm happy for him.

And a holiday season wish of good health to outdoor activists that
take to the woods of the wasatch or the canyons of the C Plateau.
For without that health and vitality, activity greatly stalls. Sad to say,
but it's been that way for some of us, for a while. That friend pain
can morph into a real wanderlust wrestling game - on the dark side.

A big thanks to all the friends, partners and others I've been able
to join hands with and embrace, in canyons this past season.

Happy Holidays - you chorus of social networking canyoneers.
sl in slc

[Brian in SLC]

There are other - zion cyn - living legends in the Springdale,
St. George and Cedar City (even Wasatch Front) areas. They have
travelled atop and through mesas, corridors and canyons - way beyond
what Tom has.

I know Tom's tenure as a canyon feller is short compared to some. But, he's got a ton of canyons and days under the belt.

Way beyond? I dunno.


But none (other than Shane or to a small degree Kelsey)
have done technical cyn books relating to zion. And most would never
dream or think of creating a web site, canyoneering blog or book.
Just not part and parcel of their psychological alchemy.

I guess I wouldn't pretend to know that about some of these "legends".

I mean, really, who knows what people dream?


And so to have the experience and technical tenure; and do a book (pay for a book) or not do a book - is that the measure of a man (or woman)?

I guess if you want to count being a published author, and maybe a published author of a popular tome, then maybe.

Publish or perish?

Besides a lack of skill, motivation, means, some of these folks probably just don't care to pen a guidebook.


Over the past two decades, my close friend Alexis Kelner has produced sterling ski tour books with his partner Dave Hanscomb and by word of mouth ascended into the halls of legend in many ski circles. But I've another close friend, Bob Athey, "The Wizard of the Wasatch" who has been an ardent devotee of ski backountry that has "lived" on the snow for the past three decades. He knows the backcountry in ways neither Alexis nor Dave could, and his experience trumps all - but a few? But Bob has NO book; he now has a web site though and is creating his own legend. And his spirited style too - that has chisled an image of it's own.

Steve, that's a poor example! Surf teletips for the author "wow". See the latest Powderwhores video (PW06). Maybe an issue or two of a ski magazine in the last several years. My bet, is if you were at a popular ski trailhead in the Wasatch, and you randomly asked folks if they knew Alexis, Dave or Bob, chances are they'd have at least heard of Bob.

And...ahem...seems like "someone" was on the cover of one of them ski books with Bob, eh? I guess I need your autograph...

I'm still surprised no one has written a decent ski guide to the Wasatch...


In the past few months I've noted a handful of local experienced canyoneers with a soft hand at the internet and video or digital cam.
New Web sites, blogs, and natural evolution to what - maybe more books
Possibly more unleashed celebrity cyn legends? ?

Celebrity or celebration? I guess I more see the latter...


I don't know what to think of this blinding technical age of ours.
Once upon a time every thing - outdoor ventures - was word of mouth, and then..humpty dumpty had a great a fall, or Alice fell into another hole?

Yeah, its interesting. Where one gifted public speaker could dominate a campfire social, now has to compete with everyone than can type with a 'net connection. Must be tough on the ol' ego. Hee hee.

Guidebooks are an interesting lot. You see this in climbing a bunch. Where the content gets analyzed along side the author's "pedigree". Whether or not the person is "worthy" enough to bestow the pearls of wisdom upon the masses. Secondary seems to be the prose, the lay out, how easy it is to follow, how functional, how useful. How accurate. But, also, whether the person is a "legend" or worthy of "legend" status or not. And if the beans or spilled in a proper manner or not. Too much beta, just enough, not enough. Style, ethics, personal agendas.

Reading a review, sometimes you can tell as much about a reviewer as you can the book...


Happy Holidays - you chorus of social networking canyoneers.

Ditto. Ribbit. Ribbit.

-Brian in SLC

[Scott P]

I'm still surprised no one has written a decent ski guide to the Wasatch...

What, you didn't like the Chuting Gallery? West Slabs and GWI a little easy for you perhaps? How about Kelner's series? :ne_nau:

[Brian in SLC]

I'm still surprised no one has written a decent ski guide to the Wasatch...

What, you didn't like the Chuting Gallery? West Slabs and GWI a little easy for you perhaps?

Chuting Gallery is great...especially in that I use it as a climbing guide to steep gullies! It ain't a ski guide, to be sure.

Hilarious too. Great book.


How about Kelner's series?

I think if you live here and have toured a ton, the books are super.

If you actually want a "guidebook" to skiing the backcountry, they aren't so good.

There is so much info that would be available...and so much good ski terrain...

The best ski guide to the wasatch are the ski touring maps (put out by?). The ones that show the safe travel trails, avy zone, contour lines, etc. You can tell where the best skiing is by looking for the red outlined or filled in little circles...

Tyler's book was sorta ok. Any more and he'd really have caught a ration (bad enough that he's a heli guide...ha ha).

Still, so much local ski history, so many names of local hills and sweet spots. Tom's Hill, Wally World, Short Swing, Toledo Bowl...etc etc etc. None on a map.

Not that I really wish there was one. Have payed the dues, methinks. Don't really "need" one. Just very surprised someone hasn't penned one.

See ya on the slopes!

-Brian in SLC

[stefan]

There is so much info that would be available...and so much good ski terrain...

The best ski guide to the wasatch are the ski touring maps (put out by?). The ones that show the safe travel trails, avy zone, contour lines, etc. You can tell where the best skiing is by looking for the red outlined or filled in little circles...


YES!! excellent source to be sure ... those maps are made by alpentech. essentially a guy does it out of his basement just southwest of parleys canyon. he's a really nice guy and does great work overlaying photos and graphical design. he's done a number of different posters of aerial views of the snowy wasatch. i visited him once about 10 years ago ... he made for me a fantastic map he makes for alta. it's a black & white aerial photo of alta and some neighboring extents, overlayed with contour lines, overlayed with almost every ski run, name, and difficulty rating (number) and other info. [you've likely seen it before]

great stuff ...

[Scott P]

Chuting Gallery is great...especially in that I use it as a climbing guide to steep gullies!

Amen. I could maybe ski or or two lines in the book, but not more than that.


If you actually want a "guidebook" to skiing the backcountry, they aren't so good.


Why not write one?:naughty:


See ya on the slopes!

Hopefully. Haven't skied since 1997, and only twice since 1993. I'm eager to get back into it.

[stefan]

Over the past two decades, my close friend Alexis Kelner has produced sterling ski tour books with his partner Dave Hanscomb and by word of mouth ascended into the halls of legend in many ski circles. But I've another close friend, Bob Athey, "The Wizard of the Wasatch" who has been an ardent devotee of ski backountry that has "lived" on the snow for the past three decades. He knows the backcountry in ways neither Alexis nor Dave could, and his experience trumps all - but a few? But Bob has NO book; he now has a web site though and is creating his own legend. And his spirited style too - that has chisled an image of it's own.

Steve, that's a poor example! Surf teletips for the author "wow". See the latest Powderwhores video (PW06). Maybe an issue or two of a ski magazine in the last several years. My bet, is if you were at a popular ski trailhead in the Wasatch, and you randomly asked folks if they knew Alexis, Dave or Bob, chances are they'd have at least heard of Bob.


not to mention his extensive avalanche expertise and observations he offers to FUAC and the education he provides to FUAC avalanche courses ... which many folks have known of for some time now.

[Brian in SLC]

not to mention his extensive avalanche expertise and observations he offers to FUAC and the education he provides to FUAC avalanche courses ... which many folks have known of for some time now.

Or, his snappy taste in clothes...

www.saveourcanyons.org/events/Ullr%20Ball/Ullrfriends4.jpg


-Brian in SLC

[Iceaxe]

Yeah baby.... I now have a signed copy of Tom's new book. I've only flipped through the pages but it looks good. I can't wait to dig in and see what treasures await.

:2thumbs:

[Scott Card]

I just got my signed copy yesterday. It really looks good. I like so many aspects of this book... where to begin. I like the canyons summary, the warnings, and of course the descriptions. Looks like a have a few new places to scout out. I also liked the rescue summaries and the acknowledgments. Some are pretty clever. Well done Tom. :2thumbs: :2thumbs:

[Millcreek 3640]

New outdoor guidebooks most often spawn views that range from,
well, A-Z, high to low and sometimes, cause opinions to spill....

In my shorhand summary of Tom's new Zion book, I tossed out a stream of themes and didn't know that the literary surgeon - the venerable Mr. Cabe - a legend, celebrity, and celebration in his own right, would be so
quick to cut and disect. And it bothers me not that his history, memory &
imagination doesn't match my own or that mis matched metaphors,
at least in his view, seem so out of place.

So before I go on - A star studded SALUTE to the venerable Brian Cabe.
Mountaineer, Rock Climber, Ice Climber, Backcountry skier,
"and new" route canyoneer. There is/are "Possibly" not too many???
active aerobic outdoor folk out there, that can also claim to have covered as much territory and terriain as has the king of the Wasatch Front outdoors; The guy is ubiquitous year round in outdoor circles. He knows many of the premier rock climbers in the country, he's well connected in climbing circles and he posts notes, views and opinions on a growing number of outdoor bulletin boards. Right, like who is Cabe NOT connected to? And who hasn't heard of Cabe? And wasn't that you Bri featured in Tom's new tome? "And...ahem.." Congrats.

So excuse me Brian for failing to give you just deserts, in my
short commentary re Tom's new book. Yes, you are cause for
celebration - we are all so happy you are here, there, seemingly
everywhere! "Oh Lordy..Another Cabe sighting," the young lady exclaimed.

Some Notes/clarification

1. Who's on FIRST? I have spoken with canyoneers in S Utah and along the Wasatch Front. Some that are either envious of Tom? have a competitive edge with Tom?or in their own view are in a different league than or indifferent to Tom? A few have shared with me the view that they/others have travelled in Zion "way beyond what Tom has." I will not mention names. In hindsight it may have been more prudent to simply suggest that some claim to have seen more zion territory than Tom. Whether they have or not, matters not to me. I accept that Tom has
seen a good deal of Zion territory, at least canyons.

2. Second, who would dream or think of doing a guide book? That again
was a quote, but I chose not to use strong language like some have offered. Such as " I would never F...ing dream of doing a F...ing guide book of Zion." So Brian, some of the folk used the word dream, some
used the words "never think of." In hindsight I shoulda spelled
that out a little better for the surgeon. Yes, I know what some have told me, and NO I don't know the mindset of the others, I've not spoken with.

3. Who's on Third, Alexis or Athey? "Steve that's a poor example?"
Say it again surgeon. (Sorry I don't get your point?) I'll say it again; Alexis and Bob are my close friends. I admire and respect both. Twenty plus/thirty or so years??? ago when the first Wasatch Tours ski tour book came out, when Alexis and Gale Dick launched Save Our Canyons and when Alexis was the gadfly vs Tom Welch/SL Olympics, he
garnered a good deal of publicity and notoriety. Fast forward though
to the late 90's and beyond. Bob has his web site, has a
zillion or so???posts on telemarktips web bulletin board, has had articles
written about him, and is a most colorful figure. Two eras really and
two different people. But if I as a rookie go to REI or Wasatch Tours
and ask for a ski tour book, they will point to the missives by Kelner
and Hanscomb. And when folk go to zion now they can either look
in the black book for the reports by b. cabe or they can purchase for
$20 or so the tom jones canyoneering bible. Brian is no less famous,
but Tom now has the book, it's just the way it is, for now. ( I hope that's
not a "poor example!" Brian.)

4. Rounding the Bases: Alpentech - Beat Von Allman; former Swiss
ski champion that married an American and settled in SLC. Beat has
designed numerous ski runs, courses throughout Europe, the US and Canada. (At least that's what he's told me; like at Snowbird and Snowbasin for example. ) Got to spend a week with Beat in "Suiss" touring ski sites/lodges with Dick Bass and Bob Bonar of Snowbird - and Alexis came along on the junket too. "Style, ethics, personal agenda." "ditto, ribbit, ribbit." Thank goodness for all the interesting souls that are part and parcel of the outdoor, naturalist, conservation, enviro and SLC personal, social circles.

Oh and I forgot, years back I wrote an article about Andy McClain after his chuting gallery book came out; and I've written articles about Athey, about Sam Palmatier down at Sundance, and about Kelner too - all unique and colorful figures. Andy a while back married a gal that use to be in my office - but she's moved on. He (Andy) gives a most sterling digital slide show in public arenas on a whole host of outdoor subjects/trips - travels he's been on - but then Cabe does too!

So again, kudos to Tom for his organization and effort in finally launching his Zion book. Stars on his forehead, stars on Brian's forehead and deserving stars on Shane's forehead too. One big celebration, we've stars in the heavens and a few bright shining stars in local outdoor circles too!

Twinkle twinkle little star..(no)
Sparkle, sparkle folk... there goes another bright, shooting star....
(was it tom, was it shane or was it cabe....?)

SL in SLC

[stefan]

Oh and I forgot, years back I wrote an article about Andy McClain after his chuting gallery book came out; and I've written articles about Athey, about Sam Palmatier down at Sundance, and about Kelner too - all unique and colorful figures. Andy a while back married a gal that use to be in my office - but she's moved on. He (Andy) gives a most sterling digital slide show in public arenas on a whole host of outdoor subjects/trips - travels he's been on - but then Cabe does too!


correction McLean

yes he DOES give sterling slide shows ... DAMN hilarious too. the greatest hits of the past 10 years-baffin/antarctica was one of the best (nondigi)


brian how oft you give slideshows? have to check one out one of these days.

[Brian in SLC]

And it bothers me not that his history, memory &
imagination doesn't match my own or that mis matched metaphors,
at least in his view, seem so out of place.

Really?


So before I go on - A star studded SALUTE...<snip>

I think I just gagged...


So excuse me Brian for failing to give you just deserts <snip>

Steve Lewis, there really is no excuse for you(!).


1. Who's on FIRST? I have spoken with canyoneers in S Utah and along the Wasatch Front <snip>In hindsight it may have been more prudent to simply suggest that some claim to have seen more zion territory than Tom. Whether they have or not, matters not to me. I accept that Tom has seen a good deal of Zion territory, at least canyons.

Again, really?


So Brian, some of the folk used the word dream, some used the words "never think of." In hindsight I shoulda spelled
that out a little better for the surgeon.

You're a legend yourself, Steve. Perhaps the biggest legend of them all.


3. Who's on Third, Alexis or Athey? "Steve that's a poor example?" Say it again surgeon. (Sorry I don't get your point?)

Ok, "Steve, that's a poor example".

So, to try to understand YOUR point, lets review:


Over the past two decades, my close friend Alexis Kelner has produced sterling ski tour books with his partner Dave Hanscomb and by word of mouth ascended into the halls of legend in many ski circles. But I've another close friend, Bob Athey, "The Wizard of the Wasatch" who has
been an ardent devotee of ski backountry that has "lived" on the snow for the past three decades. He knows the backcountry in ways neither Alexis nor Dave could, and his experience trumps all - but a few? But Bob has NO book; he now has a web site though and is creating his own legend. And his spirited style too - that has chisled an image of it's own.

Alexis and Dave have a book. Bob has no book. Bob is a legend of skiing in the Wasatch.

Methinks you were trying to infer a correlation between your friends Alexis, Dave and Bob and Tom and his new canyon book? Ie, their situation was somehow similar? That Bob is like the "legends" of canyoneering who don't have a book? Who remain humble and nameless, without any notoriety?

wow.


but Tom now has the book, it's just the way it is, for now. ( I hope that'snot a "poor example!" Brian.)

Example of what, then?


4. Rounding the Bases: Alpentech - Beat Von Allman; former Swiss ski champion that married an American and settled in SLC. <snip a ton of name dropping>

The surgeon general warns that name dropping could be hazardous to your on line persona...


Oh and I forgot, years back I wrote an article about Andy McClain after his chuting gallery book came out

I believe he goes by Andrew. McLean.


So again, kudos to Tom for his organization and effort in finally launching his Zion book. Stars on his forehead, stars on Brian's forehead and deserving stars on Shane's forehead too. One big celebration, we've stars in the heavens and a few bright shining stars in local outdoor circles too!

From Caddyshack, "don't kid yourself, judge, you're an incredible slouch".


Sparkle, sparkle folk... there goes another bright, shooting star....

Hey, I think your nick name is now, "Shooting Star Lewis."

Sorta fits, dontcha think? Mixed metaphors and all, and to all, a good night.

-Brian in SLC

[Millcreek 3640]

Give it a rest and a break?
I'll try - no name dropping this time.
There's no "Bush" pushing me
And certainly no need to "win."

Dear me, memories fail,
evidence grows stale.
Views on a guidebook, Oops!
Look out for the launched IED's
(And more, more, more of the literary surgical insurgency)

Andrew - he always called himself Andy
and we/me/friends called him the same.
Excuse the slip - re the spelling of his last name
Apologies to Andrew, sir.

Comparing "prominent" outdoor folk in era A
to those in era B;
Formerly just the print media,
And now that and the ubiquitous web

Kelner - Hanscomb - print book - one era
Athey, web bulletin board, blogs - another era
Tom - tethered to print, web and e-bulletin boards.
In some folks minds? book publishing creates a "history"
More recently web publishing, bulletin boards; "more history" creation

I get my kicks, above the belt thank you.
Reference to shooting stars....
An honest effort to say THANK YOU Shane, THANK YOU Tom
for your time, effort and energy in the outdoor/canyoneering arena.
Shane has a spendid web site and a very nice zion book.
Tom has his web site and a new zion book.
I think it's fine and right that a spotlight
however bright, gets to shine on these fine souls.
Both are so inventive, bright and interesting.
Had I more of Shane's books, I'd pass those around.

Who gets the last line, laugh or parting shot in this game?
On the scale of things - for a moment it mattered I guess -
But otherwise it's off to the DFT file - damn fool things.
Shoot away, whoever and whatever...sticks and stones...
Sparring in short Ok, but indefinitely? I think and hope not.

I've serious healthy respect for the "un-named" party I
referenced in my previous note. He is one of the most
candid, lucid, witty, incisive, entertaining and lively souls around;
many outdoor folk have great respect/admiration for the guy. So
my reference to shooting star, was effort at compliment.
That was it. (Robert Frost used it in his poetry.)
I'd say the non-named fellow is deserving of whatever "bright or shiny"
metaphor or moniker folk would like to offer, (or not offer.)
Apparently I should NOT have offered. Whooops.

Spent a few years during/after college running political campaigns.
Worked for party A, against party B, and then later
shifted to party B and then to party C and then to environment,
nature and now back to global and religious matters and still
environment, nature. Folk will ALWAYS have differing opinions
and views on subjects and projects they are involved in - but if it's politics, religion, nature, books, (or whatever) it's fun to engage with those having passion for "the subject" regardless of whether parties are in the same camp or not.

As to the outdoors and the quantum expansion of "bravado and
data" that is now offered and available to the public? I have
my views, Jim Stiles of the Canyon Zephyr has his and every
other active climber, trekker or canyoneer - that has an investment
in the endeavor, has a view likewise. Dean Potter scaled
Delicate Arch. My were there there a truckload/myriad of strong
opinions in response. His act, promotion, publicity and then the Storm of comment. People had/have views, and the energy and intensity of opinion carried on for weeks.

I apologize if my views and opinions don't line up with what a
supposed teacher thinks they ougt to - and that teacher is none
other than ANYONE with another view, that wishes to correct me.
If faulty with fact, correction is appropriate, but then in the land of opinion, well I guess sometimes there, I/we get corrected too.
Most of the time I find it entertaining, learning of the
myriad of mission statements offered by outdoor enthusiasts and pundits.

I've spoken with folk in the recreation and resource area that
work at zion; I've spoken with outdoor zion shop owners, SAR folk;
and folk I've met that tell me they have canyoneered in Zion for
many years. I've asked some - some have asked me,
what of Tom and his new guide book? Most offer very genial
remark re Tom and then the opinions - re the book - well, there
are lots of opinions.

So that is what I was hinting at a while back in a note. In hindsight,
I coulda, shoulda put a cap on my views. How does one shift in
reverse on an e bulletin board?

For folk new to canyoneering and to Zion - I think Tom's book
will be something you will enjoy.

If you haven't seen Shane's Zion book - I think you will enjoy that too.

And if you happen to visit zion during the active canyoneering season,
watch out, the keepers open the zoo and let out a most colorful array of leaping canyoneering critters. Soon it will be a new year. Come
spring, the gates will open.

Thanks Shane,
Thanks Tom,
And Thank You Mr. ____

This daunting guidebook discussion,
that apparently took a detour and shady slide.
a certain sign, (I guess)
of a coming new year.

Best to all, you passionate (and caring) outdoor crowd.

x