Customers vs Business -- The rant of the week

[Sombeech]

[my rant]:frustrated:

I continually hear that people need to STOP SHOPPING AT WALMART. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the responsibility lie with the business? Why should the CUSTOMER hold any responsibility about how successful a business is?

To blame a customer where they shop, is like blaming a river for flowing through the lowest part of the valley.

If you want to change the flow of the river, YOU have the job of creating an easier path. And thus, we see angry business owners BLAMING lost customers because they shop elsewhere, shaking their angry fists at the sky.

Here's the answer. Make your business the preferred place to shop. Customers will then "flow" to you. If you complain that WalMart buys and sells for so much less than you can, then form a purchasing group! There are more competitors of WalMart than there are WalMart stores.

And then, when you beat WalMart, you get more business, and the customer continues to win. We, as the customer, will always choose where to go. It's YOUR PROBLEM to become the premium choice, not ours. Somebody please, please, please tell me what I am missing!

:frustrated: [/my rant]

[stefan]

Well, there are lots of reasons NOT to shop at walmart.

there have been plenty of discussions/argument about this. You're just focusing on the gravitation of customers to walmart and away from other stores. while many view this as a problem, it's not necessarily the root of the problem with walmart. this is the problem with chain stores in general. and there are pluses and minuses with large corporate chain stores.

but walmart does take things to a much higher level, and yes it is all based on competition for customers and outselling competitors.

the root of the problems with walmart typically lie in HOW they are able to be so competitive ... that is, HOW they are able to sell at such low prices. there are many aspects to this which are horrendously questionable [not getting into it]. this is where the customer IS partially responsible, as they are choosing to support such business choices, while seeking lower prices.

while i would like to believe that customers and a river are very different, in that water doesn't have a brain and people do, i think, in general, you are more right on with your analogy, as many people would rather not think about where their consumer products come from, but simply about who has the best supply and/or lower costs.

there are reasons prices at walmart are so much lower than elsewhere, and many reasonable people might not agree with HOW they are able to maintain such low prices.

again, not getting into the details of HOW, just pointing out that this is a large fraction of the anti-walmart perspective.

[Iceaxe]

I don't shop at Walmart and will not...... if you don't understand why you have not been doing your homework.

To begin you might look into 10 y/o kids working 12 hour days 7 days a week, 365 days a year. If you think that type of business practice is worth saving a few pennies then shop Walmart, and remember it could be your kid.

:popcorn:

[Sombeech]

To begin you might look into 10 y/o kids working 12 hour days 7 days a week, 365 days a year. If you think that type of business practice is worth saving a few pennies then shop Walmart, and remember it could be your kid.

But why would this be WM's fault? The vendor comes to WalMart and says "I'll sell you these shirts for $2 a piece." WM says OK. Should WM say "No way, we want to pay you $3 per shirt, or we won't buy from you"? Target does the same damned thing, but since everybody who hates WM shops at Target, they don't get blamed for anything.

The concept of blaming WM on their methods is obviously not working. It never will. Everybody's heard all of the same stories for years, and yet WM is still successful. The competition's tactics need to focus on Customer Service.

I graduated in Sales, and the biggest thing I learned is you can't fail when Customer Service is your focus. These other businesses CONTINUE to lose business, even with the scary stories they tell about WM. This does not serve the customer in their favor, so they continue on their way.

I say, lose the tales of horror, and focus on Customer Service. Begin a Purchasing Group to be more competitive.

[Iceaxe]

But why would this be WM's fault? The vendor comes to WalMart and says "I'll sell you these shirts for $2 a piece."

Well actually it's not really like that..... Walmart goes to the vendor and says.... you sell this shirt for $2 a piece or you can forget about doing business with Walmart..... The vendor often has no choice but to agree.

Look, you really need to do your homework on this. The way Walmart does business could fill several books of which a couple dozen have already been published.

I don't agree with the way Walmart does business so I don't shop there, many others feel the same way. If enough people feel this way Walmart will be forced to change their methods, yes it will raise the cost of some items a few cents, but the return to the community will be paid back 10 times. This is a big picture deal, not just who has the cheapest shirt today. Nobody said Walmart was not successful..... it's the collateral damage they inflict on communities all over the world that is the problem.

This is really a pay now or pay later deal..... you shop at Walmart and you are really writing checks your children will one day be forced to cover.

:popcorn:

[Sombeech]

Walmart goes to the vendor and says.... you sell this shirt for $2 a piece or you can forget about doing business with Walmart..... The vendor often has no choice but to agree.
But why is there no choice? First of all, it's the greed of the vendor that makes them start selling to WM in the first place. The image of "WalMart Slavery" is painted way too often. Vendors CAN stop selling whenever they want. They just go back to Target if they're desperate enough for another worldwide customer.


Look, you really need to do your homework on this. The way Walmart does business could fill several books of which a couple dozen have already been published.

I know. I've been studying the debates for years, really. I've seen multiple "news" specials, listened to talk show debates on TV and radio, and even studied a WM topic in school for a period of time.

I really do know too much info about WM. But the question stands, is the customer guilty for convenient shopping? Or is there really something that the "wee wee little guys" can do to purchase better?

Seriously, this happens in EVERY industry. There's always a big guy, and then there are smart little guys who group together on purchasing.

[Iceaxe]

Vendors CAN stop selling whenever they want.

This statement proves you have NO clue about how WalMart conducts business.... do your homework!!!!

[Iceaxe]

Let me make this really simple.....

You may think it's easier to de-ice your windshield with a flamethrower, but there are repercussions. Serious repercussions.

:popcorn:

[Sombeech]

Vendors CAN stop selling whenever they want.

This statement proves you have NO clue about how WalMart conducts business.... do your homework!!!!

done. And, I have actually WORKED for a vendor that sells to WM, which is Lifetime Products. They make the Basketball hoops, ping pong tables, and Picnic tables that you can find in WM.

I was there when Lifetime announced, with great joy, that Walmart and Sam's Club would now be buying our products. This was 8 years ago.

Now? Sure, they say they need WM, and it's a very high maintenance customer. This is because Lifetime shrugged off their other customers in the process, and BY CHOICE, wanted to make more money through WM's 1000's of stores.

It's the vendors who CHOOSE to sell to WM, and they dump their other customers. If Lifetime chose to say NO to WM, they'd just go back to selling the products in the western U.S. like Sports Authority (Gart's). And to my knowledge, nobody under 18 was working there. :wink:

This is a capitalist society. The vendor can choose to stop selling, and the customer can choose to stop buying. Money and greed make these decisions harder though.

Nobody will go to jail if they stop selling to WalMart.

[Udink]

You may think it's easier to de-ice your windshield with a flamethrower, but there are repercussions. Serious repercussions.
So far, all I've seen you write on this topic is basically, "Wal-Mart bad!" Oh, and something about my kids working in sweat shops. None of the Wal-Mart detractors have actually said why it's so bad and what the consequences are (just that they're serious). Anyone care to elaborate?

[Sombeech]

Anyone care to elaborate?

I'll explain. It's Katie Couric and Matt Lauer when they batt their eyelashes and tell us how WM destroys local businesses, because "Harmons" won't lower their prices.

Then I look down the street 10 blocks and see the 1 year old WM, and the 3 stripmalls surrounding it.

It was an open field 2 years ago. My small town's economy? up, up and away.

[Iceaxe]

Anyone care to elaborate?

Start here....

http://www.coopamerica.org/pubs/caq/articles/BeyondWalMart.cfm

:popcorn:

[Sombeech]

Start here....

http://www.coopamerica.org/pubs/caq/articles/BeyondWalMart.cfm

from its low-wage, environmentally destructive factories in developing countries, to shuttered local businesses all across America.
Funny how they're saying that these factories now BELONG to WalMart
[quote=article]What

[Iceaxe]

You are still not getting it......

Nobody said Walmart was not a successful store.

The problem is the destruction they leave in their wake. The problem is WalMart is so big an powerful they can force their will.... and their will is not always pleasent.

Look at it this way..... just because I'm bigger, smarter and stronger then you it doesn't make it right if I kick your ass, shot your dog and rape your wife.

According to your reasoning you should have seen me coming and locked your door before I got to your house. I'm saying it wouldn't make any difference because I'd just kick the door down.

:popcorn:

[Sombeech]

I'm saying it wouldn't make any difference because I'd just kick the door down.

Because the customer chooses WalMart? Aren't we forgetting the basic rule of Customer Service? C.S. will win the customers.

All I want to know is, WHAT ARE WALMART HATERS DOING TO WIN CUSTOMERS? What is their strategy? To bash WM? How does Big 5 Sports plan to win back my business?

My point is, bashing WM is just plain LAZY. Smith's Food & Drug is not improving their business for my sake. They forget that I HAVE THE CHOICE to go where I want, and they think it's cheaper to complain about WM, than to build a Purchasing Group.

Purchasing Groups exist. Why are they not utilizing this to match prices???? My employers belong to a Purchasing Group to compete against a worldwide wholesale business (my last job). And they succeed!

[stefan]

sombeech

i am not entering this debate for a few reasons. but i am getting the feeling that you're coming from that typical business/economics perspective which only allows you to argue and talk about issues in a very restrictive way. most people don't normally think along these lines, so you're naturally going to come into disagreement here.

there are a lot of positives to walmart. there are also a lot of negatives. this is true with any business, but it's not JUST because they are big that they are at the receiving end of a major attack, there is something there.

also you've been talking about two different aspects, consumers and other business owners. there are differences here and it can become confusing in a debate.

what have other business owners done to win back customers? oof. this question is a can of worms. too many directions one can go with it.


you read that article, that shane pointed out, and didn't make one comment that wasn't snappy. which is your prerogative. but it makes it seem like you are ignoring the major points, and finding little statements to tear apart and spin your way. likely the reason you're doing this is to put into question the validity of the entire article, otherwise, what's your point? your stance would be more transparent if you made comments on the bigger more relevant points.

if you're interested in reading and commenting on articles. how 'bout giving your perspective on this one?

The Wal-Mart debate: A false choice between prices and wages (http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/ib223)

cheers,

interesting discussion to wake up to, btw.

[James_B_Wads2000]

Here is a good documentry on the subject:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/view/



http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/art/p_title.gif

Thomson's jobs have moved to China, where cheap labor manufactures what the American consumer desires -- from clothing to electronics -- and can buy at "everyday low prices" at the local Wal-Mart.

FRONTLINE explores the relationship between U.S. job losses and the American consumer's insatiable desire for bargains in "Is Wal-Mart Good for America?" Through interviews with retail executives, product manufacturers, economists, and trade experts, correspondent Hedrick Smith examines the growing controversy over the Wal-Mart way of doing business and asks whether a single retail giant has changed the American economy.

"Wal-Mart's power and influence are awesome," Smith says. "By figuring out how to exploit two powerful forces that converged in the 1990s -- the rise of information technology and the explosion of the global economy -- Wal-Mart has dramatically changed the balance of power in the world of business. Retailers are now more powerful than manufacturers, and they are forcing the decision to move production offshore."

"Wal-Mart has reversed a hundred-year history that had the retailer dependent on the manufacturer," explains Nelson Lichtenstein, a professor at the University of California Santa Barbara. "Now the retailer is the center, the power, and the manufacturer becomes the serf, the vassal, the underling who has to do the bidding of the retailer. That's a new thing."

To understand the secret of Wal-Mart's success, Smith travels from the company's headquarters in Bentonville, Ark., to their global procurement center in Shenzhen, China, where several hundred employees work to keep the company's import pipeline running smoothly. Of Wal-Mart's 6,000 global suppliers, experts estimate that as many as 80 percent are based in China.

"Wal-Mart has a very close relationship with China," says Duke University Professor Gary Gereffi. "China is the largest exporter to the U.S. economy in virtually all consumer goods categories. Wal-Mart is the leading retailer in the U.S. economy in virtually all consumer goods categories. Wal-Mart and China are a joint venture."

When trade agreements were signed between the U.S. and China in the 1990s, bringing China into the World Trade Organization, American political and business leaders embraced the idea. China's 1.2 billion people were viewed as an enormous untapped market for American-made goods. The reality, experts say, is the opposite. China's exports to the U.S. have skyrocketed.

At a salary of only 50 cents an hour or $100 a month, Chinese labor is an unbeatable bargain for international business. And the Chinese government is doing everything it can to be sure the country's infrastructure supports the export business. Ten years ago Shenzhen's main port did not exist. Today it's on the verge of becoming the third busiest port in the world.

Wal-Mart estimates it imports $15 billion of Chinese goods every year and concedes that the figure could be higher -- some estimates range as high as $20 or $30 billion. Company executives are quick to point out they have always scoured the globe for low cost suppliers to benefit the American consumer.

"We do depend on products from around the globe to draw our consumers into the stores," says Ray Bracy, Wal-Mart's vice president for federal and international public affairs. "We feel they need to have the best product, the best value, at the best price we can achieve."

Some experts contend Wal-Mart's "everyday low prices" are causing a clash between the interests of Americans as workers and the desires of Americans as consumers.

"If people were only consumers, buying things at lower prices would be just good. But people also are workers who need to earn a decent standard of living," says economist Larry Mishel of the Economic Policy Institute. "The dynamics that create lower prices at Wal-Mart and other places are also undercutting the ability of many, many workers to earn decent wages and benefits and have a stable life."

Economist Brink Lindsey of the Cato Institute sees it another way. "I think Wal-Mart is good for America," he says. "Wal-Mart is doing what the American economy is all about, which is producing things consumers want to buy

[Sombeech]

Please, not another anti-walmart article! I have stuff to do today! There are thousands of articles out there, please don't make me read them all! All I want to know is WHAT ARE THE ANTI WM'S DOING TO WIN MY BUSINESS?

Low wages? The customer does not care about this when Energizer batteries are $3 cheaper. THE CUSTOMER DOES NOT HOLD THE RESPONSIBILITY OF DOING WALMART HOMEWORK!!!!! This is something that you do not understand. You have to compare customers to sheep. They do not have to think. They will go where it is convenient.

If your plan is to "educate" all of the customers, you have a very, very long and difficult job to do ---- and it won't be successful.

The majority of middle-class america will NEVER be interested in the economical debates, and this is why they will continue to shop there. The competitors have to focus on customer service. Can I stress this enough?

[price1869]

I love walmart. Hooray Capitalism.

and for all you "low wage, sweatshop" nut jobs, I guess you better throw away all of your clothes, shoes, lots of your gear, food, etc.

wah wah wah, cry me a river and throw me a paddle for all the poor folk who have a competetive advantage at making stuff.

[moabfool]

...but I don't completely refuse to shop there. Probably the biggest reason I don't go into Wal-Mart is the fact that I feel like I'm a third world country. It's so crowded and it takes forever to find what I'm looking for. I have to walk sooo far (not so much of a problem when I'm hiking mind you) to get from one part of the store to another. And don't even get me started about the parking situation or driving past the entrance doors. When I go to K-Mart (which is also a big box store and kills local small business) I find what I want quickly and I get right out. And if you watch closely other stores have better prices.

I think some of the other discount stores are really missing out on a marketing strategy here. I'll even throw it at them for free. "If you didn't save time did you really save money?" Seriously, think about it. If time is money shouldn't people think about saving a half hour of their day/life instead of saving a lousy $.06 on potato chips and toilet paper?

I watched the Frontline episode that James_B_Wadds2000 mentioned. It basically said that Wal-Mart isn't a master of customer service so much as a master of marketing. They do not sell for less as they claim. Sure they suck you in with a low price (called a "price point"), but when you see the cheap item it's exactly that, cheap. So you look for something of better quality, which they have, but chances are that it's not the lowest price in town on a particular model or brand.

Even apples to apples they aren't cheaper. I was buying laundry detergent, Tide, at Wal-Mart. If I remember correctly it was $5.46 (40 load box) or something like that. I'd only buy a couple boxes at a time becuse it wasn't that good of a deal (other places would have them 2/$10 sometimes). I assumed they had the lowest price because Wal-Mart always has the lowest price, ALWAYS. One day I stopped into K-Mart and their regular price was $5.12. Well, I went back to Wal-Mart to compare. They had a "New Low Price" on Tide, $5.78-ish. Weasels. :bootyshake:

I usually shop other places, but the 24-hour convenience is nice given the selection. If you ever need to buy motor oil at 2AM or the hose feeding your toilet has sprung a leak you're in luck. Wal-Mart is open. Luckily for me their music selection sucks or I'd spend way more impulse money there. I do have to avoid the movies. I love digging through the $5.50 movie bin. I've found some crazy stuff in there.

[stefan]

Please, not another anti-walmart article! I have stuff to do today! There are thousands of articles out there, please don't make me read them all!


dude! easy. it was a short article, and different from all the others. but i understand you have a new baby. got shit going on! btw the baby is adorable. name?



All I want to know is WHAT ARE THE ANTI WM'S DOING TO WIN MY BUSINESS?

uhh, while some of us might know, i think we are the wrong people to answer that question, unless some of us have businesses that do just that. i don't and i haven't really spent any time trying to figure this out with other businesses.



If your plan is to "educate" all of the customers, you have a very, very long and difficult job to do ---- and it won't be successful.


not my plan. i don't really have a plan for other people. mostly just myself. i do get into discussions with people, walmart isn't my crusade, though i might have relatively strong feelings about it.



The competitors have to focus on customer service. Can I stress this enough?

yep ... you're right, it's really important


i have been in walmart b4 but never gave them any money ... (didn't steal anything either :haha: )

[Sombeech]

I think some of the other discount stores are really missing out on a marketing strategy here. I'll even throw it at them for free. "If you didn't save time did you really save money?"

That's a good strategy.


i don't really have a plan for other people. mostly just myself. i do get into discussions with people, walmart isn't my crusade, though i might have relatively strong feelings about it.

But why the strong feelings at all? Why not just shop elsewhere? For some people, they do make it their crusade. Why? It's like we, as the consumers, have to stick up and fight for the other small businesses because they can't defend themselves well enough.

I posted this about a month ago, but I shot a pic with my cell phone in the WM parking lot. It's a sticker on a vehicle saying "I Buy Local First". I though it was great. The people who display these stickers are the same who protest against WalMart. In the end, they just look like hypocrites.

http://uutah.com/forum/files/picture017.jpg

[stefan]

i don't really have a plan for other people. mostly just myself. i do get into discussions with people, walmart isn't my crusade, though i might have relatively strong feelings about it.


But why the strong feelings at all? Why not just shop elsewhere? For some people, they do make it their crusade. Why? It's like we, as the consumers, have to stick up and fight for the other small businesses because they can't defend themselves well enough.

hmm, why not both? well some do make it their crusade. there are only so many crusades you can have at any one time. one needs to be extraordinarily passionate to be considered on a crusade. what's wrong with having strong feelings. it makes sense as the root of why one might not shop there.

i could, ridiculously, ask you back, why do you care so much about this. regardless you do, and you have strong feelings.

now why do others make it their crusade? well, they believe in trying to persuade other folks to think more about the choices they make. there is absolutely nothing wrong with this. it's their prerogative, just as it's your prerogative to question all this questioning. BUT, there is a point to sticking up for the businesses. Businesses are changing, but they are based on customers. when customers don't come, the business fails. so as a customer you ARE responsible for supporting the types of businesses that you like to patronize. so, for example, if we like independent stores which have character and add character to a certain locale, then if we wish to maintain these we need to patronize those businesses. otherwise they will vanish. in a place like the wasatch front, which generally is devoid of such independent stores (not necessarily businesses in general), it's because utahns have sold out to the chains. this is the way of things. you can still go to big cities and find endless streets of independent stores and restaurants.

i blame this PARTLY on the choices, or trend of choices, consumers have made over a period of time.

[Sombeech]

i could, ridiculously, ask you back, why do you care so much about this. regardless you do, and you have strong feelings.

I just hear about it so much. I hate it when people try to make me feel guilty about certain things. I'm getting to the point where I can't openly say "I got it at WalMart". I have to look around the room and make sure certain people aren't present. It's like talking about the Atkins diet. It enrages people.

And at the same time, they haven't come up with any solutions. They'll say how bad WM is, but they won't say "here's where you should go, this is a really good place". The major alternative is Target. Target is the Anti WM.

I shop at Target as well, so I'm not biased. I just notice I pay more, and I don't always find what I need.

[Iceaxe]

OK Sombeech..... While I am not as big as WalMart I do run a successful business. I actually have customers lined up at my door step and I am turning them away because I can not take any more work. I am known as one of the most expensive companies in my field, I am also known for delivering and outstanding product, on time and on budget. Best I am even more proud of the fact that I provide a good work environment, with health care, paid vacations and holidays..... When the company makes money we spread the weatlh and pay out bonuses to every employee, some years these bonuses have been a 50% increase in an employees annual salary. How happy are my employees? I have not had one quite in over 15 years. My employees are extremely loyal and will do anything I ask, not because I'm the boss, but because they know we are all rowing the same boat and what is good for the company is good for them.

Many other successful comapnies also operate under this same type model. I like to think of it as the tortise and the hare... or maybe.... there is more then one way to skin a cat.

And like all things..... Walmarts time will come, don't believe it? Just ask GM, IBM, Goodyear, Sears and Union Carbide.

:cool2:

[Sombeech]

And like all things..... Walmarts time will come, don't believe it? Just ask GM, IBM, Goodyear, Sears and Union Carbide.

And that's A-OK with me. If WalMart goes away, it will be from somebody else providing better customer service. The customer will continue to benefit from this.

My hope isn't that WalMart will stay around forever, I just want convenient, customer service to stick around. If Sombeech's Supermarket is the next big thing to push WM out, it will be because the customer service was irresistable.

If WalMart ever goes away, I really hope it's because something BETTER came along. I hope it's not because enough people decided to spend more money out of spite. But the next big thing will have an overstock/distribution system that rivals WM's, and this will be a major key to cost reductions.

[Iceaxe]

Think outside that little box they put you in at business school....

Union Carbide's fall from grace had nothing to do with providing poor customer service. It had to do with accidently killing 15,000 people and injuring anther 250,000. There is MUCH more to running a successful business then just providing great customer service. If it were that simple everyone would be CEO of a Walmart.

:popcorn:

[Wasatch Rebel]

While it's true that people working for Wal-Mart suppliers in third world countries work for extremely low wages and long hours, it's also true that it's the best option they have in those countries. That's what's really sad. At the same time, without those factories, they would be worse off--so you can look at it that way as well.

I don't like Wal-Mart all that much, but I do shop there for convenience some times. I like shopping elsewhere just because I don't like them. Other businesses that compete with them are forced to use the same tactics to keep the low prices, or they just don't have the low prices. On the other hand, I heard of some company that stocks limited items in limited sizes and because they do that, they can beat Wal-Mart's prices on similar items. Can't remember the name of the company and I don't think it's in Utah.

[Sombeech]

Think outside that little box they put you in at business school....

Union Carbide's fall from grace had nothing to do with providing poor customer service. It had to do with accidently killing 15,000 people and injuring anther 250,000.

Now that I'm thinking outside the box, I'll keep in mind those cashiers that live on the edge everyday.

I just wish that other businesses would think outside the box and quit complaining. When are they going to put together a plan? I'm hearing that WalMart is bad, and that I need to think outside the box. But it looks like the only thing that exists outside the box is more WM bashing. I like it here in the box. It's comfy. :cool2:

I'll be back. I've got to go pick up some 4X6 photos for 19 cents each, thanks to the 5 year olds in China. :haha:

[stefan]

I just wish that other businesses would think outside the box and quit complaining. When are they going to put together a plan? I'm hearing that WalMart is bad, and that I need to think outside the box.


dude, i don't know if anyone has told you but ... WALMART IS BAAAAD!!!!! :haha:

well, okay, you claim they need to do something about it, since it's their fault. Well, we have a justice system because we can't always deal with problems ourselves. Other business aren't willing to stoop to the level walmart has gone, so it CAN BE very difficult to beat walmart. shane also makes an important point that there IS more to it than customer service. and he's most certainly right about that as has been described in the many documentaries, papers and articles which you likekly have read. for F&#* sake, they study the Walmart Business model in business schools across the nation.

thing is if you complain about it, it makes noise. making noise makes knowledgeable people analyze the situation. people sit and discuss it. at somepoint the situation will be better understood and something may be done. i don't know when where how or why. but something somewhere somehow ... will occur. but i think it's good to get people talking about this stuff. it's better than being apathetic, even if one is not as informed as they should be.




I'll be back. I've got to go pick up some 4X6 photos for 19 cents each, thanks to the 5 year olds in China. :haha:

haha you laugh, but you know where you're going ... :angryfire: :twisted:


:lol8: :lol8: :lol8:

[accadacca]

Man oh man lots of novels on this topic. I have only scanned a bit here. But I'll throw in a bit. IMO, Walmart is not winning on "customer service" and maybe its the way I am looking at "customer service".

Customer service to me means that the employees of a said location will know what they are talking about and be able to help customers. Walmart fails miserably in this regard. Try calling WM and asking an employee about a product. Hell, just go in the store and ask them where a product is located in the store. Hell, there damn shirts say how may I help you. But they really cant help and sometimes they cant even communicate.

Where WM is winning, is in their low prices. Its all about the almighty dollar and they have their competitors hand over fist. How they are getting these low prices is the argument. It is amazing to me what a customer will go through to get a low price. Amazing... :eek2: So IMO its simply about low prices. That is what the majority of Americans demand and even above knowledgeable and friendly employees and a clean store.

[Ross]

Here's my view of walmart...






wait, I don't care.

[Sombeech]

wait, I don't care.
:lol8:
Ya know, I went there today to pick up some Tostito's chips with "A Hint of Lime" for my homemade salsa. :slobber: :angryfire: (spicy)

As I walk in, I notice the floors are getting a little scuffed up and dirty (nothing new) and it's like the carnival was in town with all the creeps that come out of the woodwork. And, I know that I can NEVER count on a WM associate to give me any sound product knowledge.

I guess it's just very convenient to jot down the street, find what I need, and most likely find stuff for a low price, not always though. I even stopped in at the Maverick first to see if they had the "Lime" chips, but they didn't, so I knew I could find them at WalMart.

The main point I want to stress is, I will go ANYWHERE that offers what I need. The factor is the retailer has to make this change, and I will follow. We can talk about overseas jobs and child sweatshops all we want. But the bottom line is, the business owner has to win my business, and it won't be out of guilt.

I am not loyal to WM, just convenience. The customer shouldn't take the blame for somebody elses success.

[ogdmfg]

The problem is not just walmart or the other international chains it is society in general that are cheap asses, we have been brought up to believe that if it is cheap we are getting a real value, what you don't see is the sweat shops with children in third world countries under oppressive regimes that are willing to make a product that is at best second rate. I know of this first hand, dealing with chinese vendors that produce parts for the company that I work for, also the friends in the bike biz who have gone to china for production of their frames. we as a society are to blame for the slide into the abyss,don't get me wrong I despise walmart more than will ever now, their labor practices really suck, know from family experiences.

[Iceaxe]

I don't shop at Walmart and will not......


I don't like Wal-Mart all that much


dude, i don't know if anyone has told you but ... WALMART IS BAAAAD!!!!! :haha:


I despise walmart more than will you ever know

I see that Walmart is winning the hearts and minds campaign :lol8:

:popcorn:

[ogdmfg]

this has been my stance for about 5 years, no great revelation here

[Iceaxe]

I am not loyal to WM, just convenience. The customer shouldn't take the blame for somebody elses success.

I disagree.... as a free society it is our obligation to point out injustice and attempt to correct it.

Violation of human rights is wrong! Child labor is wrong! Wal-Mart creates an economy where these flourish. This is wrong, no amount of money makes it right and there is no way you can reasonably justify it.

I believe in capitalism, but at some point you must show some self restraint. So where do you draw the line in chasing the all mighty buck? Sombeech has told us child labor is fine with him..... is rape acceptable? theft? what about murder?

Making fun of the problem does not make it right.

:popcorn:

[Reedus]

The problem as I see it is the general public HAS NO CLUE of how Walmart sells it's products for such a low price. If there was a campaign that brought to light the atrocities committed by Walmart to beat the competition, people might actually stand against it and shop elsewhere. But all people see is $$$, they shop where it is cheapest, end of story. I also don't think it is the consumers responsibility to investigate how Walmart conducts biz in China. The competion should have the resonsibility to uncover WM's bad biz practices.

:popcorn:

[stefan]

I also don't think it is the consumers responsibility to investigate how Walmart conducts biz in China. The competion should have the resonsibility to uncover WM's bad biz practices.


this is the biggest load of :bs: i have ever heard.

[moabfool]

The competion should have the resonsibility to uncover WM's bad biz practices.

The problem is that Wal-Mart's competitors engage in the same practices, just not to the same magnitude. Cheap products are the result of cheap labor. First we sent our manufacturing to Japan. When the Japanese felt like they didn't want to do crap work any more the labor went to Mexico. Then the Mexicans didn't want to do the crap work so we sent the jobs to Malaysia. Then the Malaysians got wise so the work moved to China. When China gets sick of it the work will move to Africa. When Africa gets tired of doing crap work everybody will just have to do it them selves. That is the only way this will end. Oh, and toasters will cost $150 because every factory will be unionized.

[ogdmfg]

Hate to break it to you but not all factories are union

[moabfool]

Hate to break it to you but not all factories are union

Please read it closely and notice the "will be."

[Reedus]

Care to elaborate why you think my opinion is a load of crap, Stefan? I sure as hell didn't have the time to research the business practices of Bic pens before I bought one the other day at the bookstore. Nor did I research how cream o weber treats their dairy farmers when I poured myself a glass of milk this morning. My point is that if a business wants me to shop there, they better have a good argument to discredit Walmart and show why I shouldn't shop there. Lawyer do it as well as politicians, so why not big box retailers?

[stefan]

Care to elaborate why you think my opinion is a load of crap, Stefan? I sure as hell didn't have the time to research the business practices of Bic pens before I bought one the other day at the bookstore. Nor did I research how cream o weber treats their dairy farmers when I poured myself a glass of milk this morning. My point is that if a business wants me to shop there, they better have a good argument to discredit Walmart and show why I shouldn't shop there. Lawyer do it as well as politicians, so why not big box retailers?


first of all, many business purchase items from questionable sources, so they aren't going to want to attract attention to it (mentioned above). but if they were to, would you believe what they say? businesses regularly exaggerate truths for the sake of marketing.

independent sources need to do the analysis if you want to have ANY sort of faith in the results.

but beyond this, it IS up to the customer to look into where the products come from, that is if you care. Until we get laws passed that give you the "nutritional facts" of your products it just ain't gonna be done for ya. you need to look into it.

[Sombeech]

I am not loyal to WM, just convenience. The customer shouldn't take the blame for somebody elses success.

I disagree.... as a free society it is our obligation to point out injustice and attempt to correct it.
I think I'll let the law take care of that one. I've already got a full time occupation.


Sombeech has told us child labor is fine with him.....

?

[James_B_Wads2000]

Please, not another anti-walmart article! I have stuff to do today

Sombeech I didn

[stefan]

he's likely already watched it. early on he claims to have read a bunch of articles and watched a number of documentaries.

[Udink]

I disagree.... as a free society it is our obligation to point out injustice and attempt to correct it.
How on earth do you define "free society?!" In a free society, nobody has any obligation to anybody else for anything.


Violation of human rights is wrong! Child labor is wrong! Wal-Mart creates an economy where these flourish. This is wrong, no amount of money makes it right and there is no way you can reasonably justify it.
Wal-Mart is not solely responsible for allowing these practices to flourish. Wal-Mart didn't make Chinese people poor enough for it to be worth them working in a sweat shop--the Chinese government did that all by themselves. The third-world countries, U.S. consumers, and even Wal-Mart's competitors all share responsibility for what goes on.


I believe in capitalism, but at some point you must show some self restraint. So where do you draw the line in chasing the all mighty buck?
I draw the line at breaking the law. Wal-Mart may have business practices that you don't agree with, but for the most part they appear to be legal. Sure, there have been legal disputes (civil, not criminal) about labor practices and such, but that's no different than any other large corporation.

Face it, Wal-Mart stepped in and filled a niche, and it was the lack of close competition and the will of the consumer that propelled Wal-Mart to where it is today.

[ogdmfg]

my thoughts exactly

[James_B_Wads2000]

None of the Wal-Mart detractors have actually said why it's so bad and what the consequences are (just that they're serious). Anyone care to elaborate?

This makes me laugh. You once called immigrants coming to the US a form of

[Udink]

But on the other hand you defend Wal-Mart and big-box retailers who essentially force manufacturing jobs out of the US to third world countries growing their middle-class.
I wouldn't say that either of my posts to this topic were in defense of Wal-Mart or any other big-box stores. I was merely pointing out that everyone, including consumers, are responsible for the business practices that people are complaining about. I never said Wal-Mart was right, just that they're not entirely to blame for the situation.

If you want to make this thread about me, that's fine. But if you disagree with me, I'd really rather that you pointed out where you think I'm wrong rather than whatever the hell you were attempting to do above. :ne_nau:

[Iceaxe]

I was merely pointing out that everyone, including consumers, are responsible for the business practices that people are complaining about.

You are correct...... that is why I refuse to shop WalMart. I consider it doing my part. :2thumbs:

On the reverse side I go out of my way to support companies I believe in. For expample, I like auto racing, so I buy products form those who sponsor race teams, even if the product costs a little more :five:

Come on guys..... blow the dust off your wallets and vote with the checkbook. I has been proven to work :nod:

[James_B_Wads2000]

whatever the hell you were attempting to do above. :ne_nau:

Isn

[Sombeech]

This thread keeps steering away from the main question of "Should the customers be the guilty party for WalMart's success?"

Let's drop all of the law-breaking sweatshop monopoly talk. We've all heard it for years.

What I want to know is, WHAT CAN RETAILERS DO TO IMPROVE THEIR MARKET SHARE? The answer is NOT to tell customers they are doing the wrong thing. The key is to make your business the more preferrable place to shop. This may not mean price. It may not mean location.

So much time and energy has been wasted in research and investigation on WM, and this could have been spent BUILDING SOMETHING BETTER FOR THE CUSTOMER. This is why I hate the WM whining. It's wasted time, and it wears me down. Like I said before, I'm not LOYAL to WM, I'll just go to the most convenient place. I just get irritated at the naysayers that have no solutions.

The Law is not the solution, and when I struggle to find a parking spot, it's obvious that "educating the masses" is not working either. It's up to the competitors for a solution.

[stefan]

This thread keeps steering away from the main question of "Should the customers be the guilty party for WalMart's success?"

hmm, sounds like you've answered this question. without customers, there would be no success ... so, looks to me like they're pretty much guilty :ne_nau:





Let's drop all of the law-breaking sweatshop monopoly talk. We've all heard it for years.

why, i think it's pointing out that low prices and availability are the keys here. and futhermore that the american public, generally, doesn't mind how such prices and availability come about. i think it all should be talked about.



What I want to know is, WHAT CAN RETAILERS DO TO IMPROVE THEIR MARKET SHARE? The answer is NOT to tell customers they are doing the wrong thing. The key is to make your business the more preferrable place to shop. This may not mean price. It may not mean location.


this is really a question for the marketing whizzes out there. i don't think we'll be solving this one tonight. if we were, we could really revolutionize american business. give uutah a good name. then again, why, if anyone has the answer to this question, would they be talking about it on uutah?




So much time and energy has been wasted in research and investigation on WM, and this could have been spent BUILDING SOMETHING BETTER FOR THE CUSTOMER. This is why I hate the WM whining. It's wasted time, and it wears me down. Like I said before, I'm not LOYAL to WM, I'll just go to the most convenient place. I just get irritated at the naysayers that have no solutions.

most people don't have the bright ideas, unless they're pipe dreams. so it make sense to analyze differences and fault. this is how people learn. when they think more deeply about it. it's important to understand the world that we live in. however, sometimes thinking about faults can lead someone to realize how to build something better. and besides. ideas are just ideas. i don't mean to be pessimistic here. i am usually an optimist. however, i realize that all of this is much easier said then done. running a biness ain't no simple task, pleasin' shareholders ain't no simple task, providing quality items, good salaries, benefits, marketing, etc. ain't no simple task.



The Law is not the solution, and when I struggle to find a parking spot, it's obvious that "educating the masses" is not working either. It's up to the competitors for a solution.

i wouldn't discount laws too quickly there.

beating walmart has OBVIOUSLY proven to be a difficult task. if they are willing to go to greater lengths than most business, then perhaps it is not so simple.

thrown back atcha, how are we supposed to get america off of junk food? i wanna walk into a convenience store and find better food then this crap. i am sick of this fast food/convenience junk food crap on ever gd corner. the only nice thing about convenience stores is that you don't waste 30 minutes running around to find which gd isle has what you're looking for. course i end up running around a convenience store for the same amount of time looking for something decent to eat. fat chance.

problem is when something dominates and people are attracted to it ... they maintain it. it's hard to change. if people are attracted to junk food and low prices, it's going to be hard to convert them.

no simple task ... but i bet if you figure out the answer you could make yourself some cash.

[Sombeech]

What I want to know is, WHAT CAN RETAILERS DO TO IMPROVE THEIR MARKET SHARE?

this is really a question for the marketing whizzes out there.

Exactly! So why the crusade to educate the masses? Why must I hear almost EVERYDAY how I shouldn't shop at WM? It's the "marketing whizzes'" job to find the solution, and it DOESN'T involve oppressing the public with guilt.

[stefan]

What I want to know is, WHAT CAN RETAILERS DO TO IMPROVE THEIR MARKET SHARE?

this is really a question for the marketing whizzes out there.

Exactly! So why the crusade to educate the masses? Why must I hear almost EVERYDAY how I shouldn't shop at WM? It's the "marketing whizzes'" job to find the solution, and it DOESN'T involve oppressing the public with guilt.

you can't tie the two together. there is a difference between improving market share for one company and not supporting a company because you don't agree with their practices (or the extent thereof). both need to exist. this is what makes life interesting, not be completely enslaved to the powers that be. you have the ability to make decisions based on principles. educating the masses is important, because it introduces alternate points of view, and argues for their validity and importance, when they otherwise would be swept under the rug in the public's eye.

it's important to know where your food comes from, where your furniture comes from, where your everything comes from. what has made it possible. at what expense. it's important because it affects the world, and if informed, you may not agree with the effect. if you don't agree with the effect, then why do you support it when there might be alternatives which may be more agreeable. granted it's very difficult to know where EVERYTHING you get comes from, but i think it's important to try to become more aware. crusaders, watchdog groups, lawyers, newsmedia, analyst groups, .... all try to make it more part of their jobs to point out/analyze issues, that is, to inform. sometimes it's just enough to recognize that there is a problem. sometimes more needs to be done. but ignoring it is not right in my book. If you make people continually aware, there is a good chance in the future things will change.





The problem as I see it is the general public HAS NO CLUE of how Walmart sells it's products for such a low price. If there was a campaign that brought to light the atrocities committed by Walmart to beat the competition, people might actually stand against it and shop elsewhere.


uhh ... there is a campaign, quite widespread. in fact, it reaches all the way to the democratic party.

[greyhair biker]

I have a love hate relationship with Walmart. I onw a bike shop as a few of you know - the only one in Green River WY. There are only two within 150 miles. My competitor is in Rock Springs, 16 miles away, and WalMart is in RockSprings as well...a super WalMart to boot. They are a big competitor in only one respect. They have bottomless pockets and flood the market with cheap bikes. They have no need of real customer service, at least that is how they act. I, on the other hand, rely on customer service to stay alive. I have actually sent customers to WalMart to purchase a bike because I cant beat the price simply to have them go through the process of the LACK of SERVICE. They, without fail, come back. My customer base is primarily repeat DUE TO SERVICE because I am not the cheapest nor do I refuse to work on a 'WalMart bike' like my competitor in RS. I also get lots of business from the other shop simply BECAUSE of SERVICE. A business owner who SERVES will come out ahead. I don't claim to be the best or the smartest but I will profit from Wally World one way or the other. On another note, My Wife works for WalMart (she sells guns!! :2thumbs: ) She refuses to buy anything there if she has to go through the checkout up front. THE ONLY reason we shop there is for the extra 10% off we get and that isnt worth the headache most of the time! :frustrated:

[Sombeech]

it's important to know where your food comes from, where your furniture comes from, where your everything comes from. what has made it possible. at what expense.

Again, trying to educate the masses. THIS WILL NOT PUT WALMART OUT OF BUSINESS. Whether it's important or not, the customers JUST DON'T CARE.

Call the customers either uneducated or stubborn, this is not the method that will make WM fall. This is my main point. The way to overcome WM is not through rallies, posters, mass emails, documents, TV programs, radio shows, web forums, or even shouting in the streets. (All of which have been done!)

If price is not the only desire of customers, then WalMart's "overseas sweatshops" should have NO EFFECT on a competitor's ability to compete! I hear people say that price is not that important, but in the next sentence they complain about how WM buys so cheap! If price isn't important, who cares? The competition cannot get over this price mindblock. They, my friends, are the ones who are not thinking outside the box.

[stefan]

Again, trying to educate the masses. THIS WILL NOT PUT WALMART OUT OF BUSINESS. Whether it's important or not, the customers JUST DON'T CARE.


i think we're starting to kick the horse in the balls now, after it's already pretty hurt. i guess one thing that you're assuming is that the goal is to put walmart out of business. i don't think that's the goal at all. the goal more appropriately should be to get walmart and others to change their ways. making a stink about something sends messages to a company, to politicians, to people everywhere saying "this just isn't right." i don't understand what the problem is here. just shrug the mud off if it's slung your way. if you don't react to it, your friends who are bothered by your purchasing decisions might let it go.



Call the customers either uneducated or stubborn, this is not the method that will make WM fall. This is my main point. The way to overcome WM is not through rallies, posters, mass emails, documents, TV programs, radio shows, web forums, or even shouting in the streets. (All of which have been done!)


i guess i just completely disagree with you that no one should talk about it. awareness is a good thing. don't try to shut it down.



If price is not the only desire of customers, then WalMart's "overseas sweatshops" should have NO EFFECT on a competitor's ability to compete! I hear people say that price is not that important, but in the next sentence they complain about how WM buys so cheap! If price isn't important, who cares? The competition cannot get over this price mindblock. They, my friends, are the ones who are not thinking outside the box.

price is pretty damn high on the list, probably at the top. availability in a single store is up there too. price is important to a lot of people for many different reasons, whether they don't have much money, or they just want to make their money go further. but price is high on the list for walmart shoppers. but i would also think that marketing has sucked many folks in, so that going to walmart for some has become a custom.

price and customer service are big things. but when it comes to much of the everyday shit, i think price wins. when it comes to specialty items, i think price + customer service plays a strong role. but if i am buying toiletpaper, i don't really need customer service for that. returnability of items is important, and i think there are a lot of places that are winning people over with this returnability thing, like REI for example. but the difference here is that we're talking about more expensive items. now we're out of the league of walmart. they are serving a different group of customers.

i think this horse is pretty dead. you wanna kick it some more, see if it wakes up?

[Sombeech]

i think this horse is pretty dead. you wanna kick it some more, see if it wakes up?

Sure do :lol8: This is my "rant of the week" and it's only Tuesday. :haha:

I guess I'm just searching for answers. (with a GREAT debate, I might add - cheers :2thumbs: ) I'm still not satisfied. (watch out, it's getting late, and this is when I type alot. :roll: ) :comppunch: I want to know why. Why do I hear WM controversy almost daily? (aside from this thread)

If retailers are expecting their customers to "know the issues", that really limits their customer base. They've got to get sales SOME OTHER WAY. Even if the semi-educated customers (myself) left WalMart, there's still millions of white trash that will shop there. These people are not capable of learning the issues. Really! They are the mindless sheep that will keep WalMart in the lead, unless a new shepherd comes to town.

[ogdmfg]

if we all stop using wm it will at least help the smaller shops stay around longer. let the genral public have wm in the past year I have gone to wm once. pretty easy not to go there. would rather spend my money at a local store over a big box chain.yes I am evil for shopping locally

[Iceaxe]

A sad day in the trailer park :cry1:

Wal-Mart Will Phase Out Layaway Program

Wal-Mart said today that, because of declining use and increasing costs, the company will phase out its layaway program as it expands other financing options. Customers will have until November 19 to place items in layaway for this Christmas season and merchandise must be picked up by December 8.

"Demand for layaway service has declined steadily as consumers turn to other options, such as online shopping, gift cards and no-cost credit alternatives," said Pat Curran, executive vice president, store operations, Wal-Mart Stores Division. "To assist our customers, we are offering one last opportunity to use layaway service this Christmas season."

At the same time, Wal-Mart is working to offer customers new payment options. The company already has zero interest offers for 6 and 12 months for current Wal-Mart cardholders. For the first time, customers who apply for a new Discover or Wal-Mart Credit Card will receive $20 cash back when they apply at the register and purchase at least $100 on their card the same day.

[Sombeech]

For the first time, customers who apply for a new Discover or Wal-Mart Credit Card will receive $20 cash back when they apply at the register and purchase at least $100 on their card the same day.

20 bucks? Time to get that new tattoo I've been wanting for a while. I'll just put it over the ex's name.

[Shan]

I didn't go through all the posts, but this PBS special switched me off of Walfart. I used to shop there and I could get our monthly food bill down to $300 and we did not eat out either. I did it because I had to at one point (we was po').

"Is Wal-Mart Good for America?"
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/

You can watch the full video online.

[greyhair biker]

I talked to my wife about the new layaway policy - she says she has actually seen people put TOOHPASTE on layaway...friggin toothpaste! - other items she saw...shampoo & other 'hygiene' products.
....I guess I shouldnt rant about something so redneck...credit cards at McDonalds was hard to fathom at first but nowadays who knows :ne_nau:

[Iceaxe]

I guess I shouldnt rant about something so redneck...credit cards at McDonalds was hard to fathom at first but nowadays who knows

At one time my wife worked for Providian, which is a credit card company (VISA).... best of all its a credit card company that will issue credit cards to people with poor credit. You should hear some of her stories, they will keep you laughing for days....

My all time favorite..... "What do you mean I still owe you $2000, Didn't you hear me, I cancelled my credit card" :roflol:

.

[stefan]

from " 'Sweatshop snoops' take on China factories"
By Thomas Fuller International Herald Tribune

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/09/15/business/inspect.php

On the books, Chinese labor laws are strict. The workweek is 40 hours, after which generous overtime must be paid, ranging from 150 percent to 200 percent of base salary, until a total of 66 hours, the effective legal weekly limit. Workers are entitled to at least one day off a week. No one younger than 16 is allowed to work in a factory.

"China has very good labor laws, very worker friendly," said Steve Feniger, a managing director of SSPartners, a trading company, who has spent nearly three decades in China. "The problem is that nobody implements them."

:

"A lot of the time people think it's just one factory here or there that has a problem, when in fact in our experience most factories in China have got problems," Gould said.

[stefan]

Wal-Mart faces sex bias lawsuit

By Patti Waldmeir in Washington

Published: February 7 2007 00:07 | Last updated: February 7 2007 00:07

Wal-Mart on Tuesday lost a bid to block the biggest employment lawsuit in US history after a federal appeals court ruled that at least 1.6m current and former female employees could sue the company as a group.

The ruling, by a narrowly divided panel of the ninth circuit federal appeals court in California, upheld a lower court ruling granting class-action status to a lawsuit accusing Wal-Mart of paying women less than men and promoting them less often. The plaintiffs include almost all women who worked at Wal-Mart stores from December 1998 to the present.

[DiscGo]

I really try and avoid shopping at Walmart. I am very against outsourcing and nearly everything (except food) at Walmart comes from China. At least half the stuff I own comes from China, but when I purchasing stuff I usually look for any option that is not china (U.S. first, Mexico, etc.). Sam Walton was a good man. He promised that Walmart would never sell anything that was not made in America. Minutes after his death his family was selling out Sam Walton's dreams and promises for the extra buck. Walmart is normally the cheapest place to purchase stuff but I am willing to pay the extra couple of dollars to shop elsewhere.


I don't judge you guys who do shop their but I do wish that a lot less people did. I certainly have shopped there (sometimes they are the only place to purchase something at 3am when I need it) but I really try not to. With the exception of not having debt, I feel like I have less money than most people, so it is not that I can afford to pay more than the average consumer. I feel like the best thing I can do for my country is not shop there, and so I try not to.

[JP]

This is a capitalist society. The vendor can choose to stop selling, and the customer can choose to stop buying. Money and greed make these decisions harder though
:nod:


Face it, Wal-Mart stepped in and filled a niche, and it was the lack of close competition and the will of the consumer that propelled Wal-Mart to where it is today.
:nod:

It definitely is the convenience. We have Wal-Mart here in my town, Bed Bath & Beyond, TJ Maxx, Sears Hardware and a few others. The next town over is Best Buy, Target, Circuit City and a large mall stuffed with everything from Abercrombie & Fitch to Pretzel Time.

One stop shopping is a convenience. Driving to four different locations to get everything you need or driving to one place. Will Wal-Mart go by the wayside, years down the road I'm sure. We had other big retailers in the neighborhood such as Caldor, Bradlees, Service Merchandise, K-Mart and Ames. Where did these go? Stores such as Sam's Club (which came to the Northeast before Wal-Mart even though they're one in the same), BJ's and Costco's came here and at that time Caldor's, Bradlees and the rest seemed to hit rock bottom including bankruptcy. In moved a little southern chain called Wal-Mart. It took off as everything else was dying. It's just a cycle and Wal-Mart right now is sitting pretty.

[Sombeech]

Wal-Mart faces sex bias lawsuit

They've refused employees that have a college education. :lol8:

Just to reiterate, WM has some practices that I think are out of line. ie;
They have a new inventory mgmt system that can track the items very well. They are now forcing their vendors to hold off billing, until their product rings across the scanner at the cash register.
This means WM doesn't even pay for the item until they ring it up on their cash register. This really screws the vendor, to wait for their money.

....and, if it gets stolen from WM, the vendor doesn't get paid due to WM's lack of "security".

So, I've never completely agreed with their tactics, but I still stand by my opinion that the customers cannot be blamed for WM's success.

[Scott P]

My mother worked for Walmart and for many years it was our family's only ource of income.

I have to see the point about the China thing, but I can't say that other companies are any better. Even at REI most stuff is made in China or SE Asia. It can't b blamed soley on Walmart.

Walmart is coming to our town in about a year. The local businesses are worried but for the exact opposite reasons that are often stated by the media. They claim that Walmart pays employees too much and can provide better benifits than the local stores, so the local stores will lose their employees.

I have to admit I have some relief that Walmart is coming. The local stores have a monopoly and strangle hold on the economy here. They fleece the locals because it is so far to drive somewhere that has an alternate place to shop. The normal price for a gallon of milk here is around $4 a gallon. It pisses me off that I can go to SLC and everything is 1/2 price. A little big business might be good around here.

Walmart does do some good things. They hired my handicapped (leaning disability and can't read) brother when no one else would.

[Sombeech]

They claim that Walmart pays employees too much and can provide better benifits than the local stores, so the local stores will lose their employees.

Yeah, they just need to make up their minds. In the political arena, they complain that WM treats their employees like garbage, contrary to what the competition is saying.

[stefan]

who needs to make up their minds?

[Sombeech]

who needs to make up their minds?

The consolidated WM enemies. They're saying WalMart treats their employees like crap, and they're ALSO saying WalMart pays their employees too much, with great benefits, so they can't compete with WM.

[stefan]

who needs to make up their minds?

The consolidated WM enemies. They're saying WalMart treats their employees like crap, and they're ALSO saying WalMart pays their employees too much, with great benefits, so they can't compete with WM.

but then wouldn't it be problematic to consolidate these different "enemies?"

you place walmart in a major metropolitan area and you place it in small town u.s.a., you're clearly gonna get different responses.

when it comes to larger towns, walmart often is paying people less, with LESS benefits than the competition. in small towns it may be the opposite.

it's all relative, right?

[Sombeech]

True. I don't think they have a flat starting wage across the nation though.