Warren Jeffs Arrested

[stefan]

Warren Jeffs Arrested


http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/08/29/polygamist.arrest.ap/index.html

[price1869]

Oh man, those mormons are crazy!!

[asdf]

Oh man, those mormons are crazy!!

I think you mean humans right...

[Iceaxe]

That asshole Jeffs has forced hundreds of underage girls into sexual relationships...... I have no sympathy for the creep.

I can't wait for Jeffs to meet his new, giant, black, cell mate that goes by the name of Thunder Dick. :haha:

[Glockguy]

Too bad but he won't be put with the general population.

[Scott Card]

Oh man, those mormons are crazy!!

Alright, I'll bite. He ain't Mormon. :nono: I'm Mormon and he's not. No offense taken. I had to correct a couple law school profs who had their facts wrong on this issue also. :haha:

[stefan]

He ain't Mormon. :nono: I'm Mormon and he's not.

that would be mormon fundamentalist ... no?

[asdf]

Didn't Brigham Young have 47 wives and a Beard? Do you think he would be on the FBI's most wanted list today? I know for sure they would not let him on his own campus.
Not trying to start anything... its just strange how things change.

[shanehadman]

I bet Warren Jeffs wishes he was a Mormon when he was getting pulled over by the state trooper :2thumbs:

[price1869]

Yeah, I was just trolling. I'm very L.D.S. W.J. was/is F.L.D.S.

I think that if there had been an F.B.I., B.Y. would have been on the list. The US army did invade S.L.C. with a warrant for his arrest.

Just a note - B.Y. was not raping 14-year-olds, nor arranging for the marriage/rape of such.

[Scott Card]

He ain't Mormon. :nono: I'm Mormon and he's not.

that would be mormon fundamentalist ... no?

Let me describe the difference this way. It is kinda like Protestant isn't Catholic. Jeffs and harem broke off from the L.D.S. religion and started their own Church (or others did before Jeffs). They are in no way affiliated with the L.D.S. religion. Its apples and bunny rabbits. Isn't equating a Mormon as a polygamist old news-- as in over 100 years old- old news? Spoken by a true great great grand son and great grand son of a polygamist :haha: Me! Move along, nothing to see here. :lol8:

[Reedus]

It is funny how even main stream journalists get it wrong. On MSN home page they had an article about the "Mormon cult leader" getting arrested. FLDS are not Mormons in todays standards. Mormons are equated with the LDS church not spin-offs from it. Scott hit it on the head with that one. I think it has to do with tarring the LDS image by those who for some some reason or another despise the religion. I was on the SLC craiglist the other day and you wouldn't beleive the hate and animosity portrayed by some people on there about the LDS religion. I probably won't ever understand the reasoning behind it, just as I won't ever understand why different ethnicities like those in Iraq hate each other so bad.

[stefan]

He ain't Mormon. :nono: I'm Mormon and he's not.

that would be mormon fundamentalist ... no?

Let me describe the difference this way. It is kinda like Protestant isn't Catholic. Jeffs and harem broke off from the L.D.S. religion and started their own Church (or others did before Jeffs). They are in no way affiliated with the L.D.S. religion. Its apples and bunny rabbits. Isn't equating a Mormon as a polygamist old news-- as in over 100 years old- old news? Spoken by a true great great grand son and great grand son of a polygamist :haha: Me! Move along, nothing to see here. :lol8:

scott what should they be called. i didn't think using the term mormon fundamentalist was equating mormonism and the fundamentalists. it's simply making a distinction by means of a simplified term, as the phrase 'members of the FLDS church is tedious,' and they DO believe themselves to be mormons. alternately, there are many christian religions who don't believe the LDS church is christian, yet the mormon church believes otherwise.

but i understand what you're getting at.

[Reedus]

They believe themselves to be Mormon???

According to whom Stefan?

[stefan]

They believe themselves to be Mormon???

According to whom Stefan?

As I have understood it, the FLDS church (as well as probably every sect which has broken off of the LDS church) considers itself the true mormon church. So this, of course, would be according to them, i.e., they have self-proclaimed it.

i understand that "the" LDS church believes the phrase "mormon fundamentalist" to be contradictory in some sense. therefore they choose not to recognize it.

a statement by LDS president hinkley (http://lds.org/newsroom/showrelease/0,15503,4028-1-23016,00.html)

There is no such thing as a 'Mormon Fundamentalist.' It is a contradiction to use the two words together."

another term would be polygamous sects, but this is somewhat ambiguous.

they call themselves mormons, which is clearly controversial, so we're not going there.

the question was, how should they be called for short. clearly they are members of the Fundamentalist Church of the Latter Day Saints. what should the rest of the country (or world for that matter) call them as that phrase is tedious ... when i was young, growing up in salt lake, the common term i heard was polygamists. but this seems sort of derogatory, and a shortname which has clear meaning within the confines of utah, but is unclear more generally.

i am not trying to incite problems here. just trying to find a simple term because i can't stand using such long-winded descriptions.

[Reedus]

I don't see the term "polygamists" as being derogatory. It is the practice of polygamy that distinguishes them from actual "mormons" IMO

[Sombeech]

Didn't Brigham Young have 47 wives and a Beard? Do you think he would be on the FBI's most wanted list today?

Yeah, something like that. Jeffs didn't have a beard though, maybe that's where he went wrong. :lol8:

Anyways, it's not about polygamy. I believe there are thousands of polygamists around, and they are not under any investigation.

Jeffs' problems included child incest. He's even charged with Raping one of his Nephews. Hear that? This is waaaaaaayyyyyy more than having multiple wives. The dude is a child molester, of both sexes. Who knows if he's involved animals or not.

In fact, he's not even charged with having multiple wives. Polygamy does not show up on the charges. It's this other trash that he's in trouble for, and polygamy will probably never be debated as a legal status from this case. It's just something the news stations are fixated on. They're not focusing on the real charges.

[Scott Card]

He ain't Mormon. :nono: I'm Mormon and he's not.

that would be mormon fundamentalist ... no?

Let me describe the difference this way. It is kinda like Protestant isn't Catholic. Jeffs and harem broke off from the L.D.S. religion and started their own Church (or others did before Jeffs). They are in no way affiliated with the L.D.S. religion. Its apples and bunny rabbits. Isn't equating a Mormon as a polygamist old news-- as in over 100 years old- old news? Spoken by a true great great grand son and great grand son of a polygamist :haha: Me! Move along, nothing to see here. :lol8:

scott what should they be called.

Good question. Beats me. They and the media will call them what they will call them. My only point was to explain that I, of the LDS faith do not claim them and I am sure they would not claim me or the LDS faith. Crud, one wife is plenty for me and I am sure I would be breaking some dress code if they saw me in my wetsuit in a canyon. :haha: And the lawyer thing would probably send them over the edge too. I'm surprised I haven't been banished from Uutah. :lol8:

[Reedus]

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,645197523,00.html

[Reedus]

hmmm, that didn't post as I wanted it to. What did I do wrong Sombeech?

[coach steve]

Living in the shadow of the "twin cities" (Colorado City and Hilldale), and dealing with these people all the time, I think it will be very difficult to prosecute him. It's kind of like th scene from the Godfather 2 when Michael Corleone brings the guys old uncle from Sicily into the Senate hearing. Finding witnesses to tell the truth will be nearly impossible. Believe it or not, most of those women do not want to be "rescued". They would lose their chance at eternal life if they did. Also, even if he meets his soulmate in prison, he will not stop being the prophet to these people. Just like drug lords continue to run their business in the most secure prisons in the country, Jeffs will continue to run these people's lives from his prison cell. He will continue to arrange marriages by telling young girls who they can and can't marry. His arrest solves nothing.

[BrainDamage]

His arrest solves nothing What else could have been done? Just forget about him? :ne_nau:

[stefan]

His arrest solves nothing.

hmm ... we'll have to see. what really would help matters if there were more intervention in these people's lives. if his arrest somehow would justify this, then possibly more of these brainwashed/indoctrinated/abused folks might have a chance at seeing the light of day. but clearly much more would need to be done.

while i think it's unjust to meddle in the lives of the american people, i think when it is shown that there is brainwashing, indoctrination, and abuse in such a negative manner, it's enough of a just cause to intervene. one type of intervention is to make sure that they are not allowed to home school, so at least they have contact with the "outside." the wasatch front polygamists have been a mixed bag, some have tried to homeschool and resist and we've seen how that has gone down with the feds. the singer's tried to declare their own country, oh how crazy it has been growing up in utah. but other polygamists have their children in schools, and i am not sure what it does, as they are likely very closed about it. indoctination can be a powerful thing.

freedom of religion is a very good thing, but there must be a point where we draw the line. one would think, after years of looking the other way, that, with the years of abuse, topped with the kidnapping of elizabeth smart and the national coverage of it, that it should become a priority for these local governments to deal with it. it simply BEGINS with arresting Jeffs, but much more needs to be done. will it? many surely hope so.

my guess is that while a faction of them are strongly connected to their beliefs and will be highly resistant, others may not be given the proper help and guidance. The documentary "banking on heaven" could be one means of helping some of these women confront their situation and start the psychological process of transition. though i have not seen this documentary, the fact that it's been done by a woman, who was raised in the same conditions and took many years to move beyond the impression of the indoctrination, suggest to me that it gets to the heart of the indoctrination and abuse, in a very emotional way. these women (and also men) need to hear from others, who now see differently that this abuse is wrong. this may be one universal way of speaking to them initially.

i am no expert in ANY of these matters, but i don't pretend that it will be an easy process. on the other hand, while i am a big proponent of religious freedom, as it was one of the foundations of our country [though i also can see that it's slowly becoming its downfall too], i think there is a line that must be drawn when it goes too far.

[Sombeech]

Well, atleast one pedophile will be taken off the streets.

[coach steve]

His arrest solves nothing.

After watching a few interviews this week, maybe I was a little hasty in saying that. Maybe it should be that his arrest changes nothing for most people in the twin cities. However, a few have started to see him as dishonest and immoral. The stuff that was found in his car are things he has denied his followers--computers, cell phones, MONEY by the $1,000, and a RED Cadillac Escalade. He has told his followers that red is the color of the devil . . . .Just maybe there is a crack in the armor and something will happen. There are powerful and well-to-do men who support him as a prophet. It will be interesting to see. Although there is very little similarity between Jeffs and Joseph Smith, the atmosphere surrounding the hunt is very similar to those days when the mobs were hunting Smith and members of the Church were supporting him. That is the feeling I get talking to some folks from out there I know.

[erial]

Senator Carl Hayden was sheriff of Maricopa County before Arizona was a state. After the federal government had firmly imposed its restrictions on polygamy upon the Mormon settlers, some nosey person observed that the Pima and Maricopa Indians living in the desert were following this practice. Charges were raised against an Indian Chief living several miles from Phoenix who was known to have more than one wife. Sheriff Hayden rode out to the reservation to warn the chief against this practice. He found the man resting under a cottonwood tree while his two wives were hoeing a patch of corn. Squatting in the shade with the Indian, Carl exchanged pleasantries and offered the makings of a cigarette before finallly getting around to the subject of his visit.
"The Big Chief in Washington says you can't have two wives. That is called polygamy and its against the law. You'll haved to get rid of one wife.
The Indian calmly puffed his cigarette for a moment and then called out loudly for the two squaws to come in from the field. He turned to Carl and said," If two wives against the white man's law, you tell 'em."
American Heritage December 1971

[Sombeech]

Funny story. I wonder if he ended up telling the squaws. :ne_nau:

By the way, I want to reitterate that this issue was not about polygamy. The practice itself is not being condemned in the court. It's the acts of incest and rape that are being charged -- and not just of females.... :eek2:

[RedMan]

Obviously we have no problems brainwashing, indoctrination, and abuse.

I went to public school, its part of the curriculum.

[Sombeech]

New info on the arrest.


Warren's vehicle was normal, his driving was good. There was only one thing that made him stand out....

[Scott Card]

That is great :roflol: :roflol:
Actually, this goes along with the "I got a ticket" thread in that if I heard correctly, Jeffs was pulled over due to an equipment or license plate violation. Sometimes fishing pays off big!!! :lol8: