View Full Version : pot holes tecniques
hesse15
08-09-2006, 01:34 PM
did bunch of canyon with sweetheart and running man over the weekend of the 4th
here some good shot of dealing with the pothole in good day jim
was way cool to stand on RC shoulders
fun fun
is nice to have such a stud canyoneer bf
Iceaxe
08-09-2006, 01:41 PM
First time I did GDJ the pothole was only about 4 or 5 feet deep and was easy to climb out of. If you look carefully at the picture below you can see the top of Joe Wrona's head sticking above the rim.
That's Barb P. downclimbing. This picture is taken downstream looking back up at the pothole.
Shows how much things can change.
http://climb-utah.com/Powell/Files/gdj05.jpg
Cool pics and commentary! :2thumbs:
How do you climb out? Just freehanding the rope or do you use an ascending device?
hesse15
08-09-2006, 02:02 PM
Cool pics and commentary! :2thumbs:
How do you climb out? Just freehanding the rope or do you use an ascending device?
no we did not use use any ascender
just strong shoulders of boyfriend
is a nice things for pothole escape!!!
not stinky ascenders needed :bootyshake: :bootyshake: :naughty:
Ya, but after you climbed out, set up an anchor and then does your boyfriend climb out just freehanding the line?
hesse15
08-09-2006, 02:16 PM
Ya, but after you climbed out, set up an anchor and then does your boyfriend climb out just freehanding the line?
i got down the other side
i when on the ground i weighted the rope trough
my belay device plus poth shot attach to me weight 120lb+ 20lb=140lbs
boyfriend stayed in the pothole =180lb and he weighetd the other end of rope
with this system the third person just go across the pothole whithout getting into it and when he reached me
i put boyfriend on belay and he just climb the lip using the weighted rope as help to get to the overhang
we use only one potshot and was not enough friction to hold a full body weight
but we knew that boyfriend is strong enough to toss me on the other side of the lip
but before i was over the lip we still left the third person at the rappel in case we need to go up and trow the potshot or using a different system
stefan
08-09-2006, 03:03 PM
that's really interesting shane about the depth of the pothole when you first did the canyon.
i like the different ways this pothole has been dealt with. i took a sampling of images from eric's video when we did the canyon at the beginning of january.
to one end of the rope was tied a potshot, nat is rappelling down the other half of the rope. he places his left foot on the lip of the pothole,
then pulls himself up, using the other rope. no easy task as the stretch is a bit far, and you need to slowly let the brake off for slack.
ajroadtrips
08-09-2006, 03:06 PM
Yeah, always good to have the uutah goddess along. Beautiful, strong, fun, and light...
From the shoulder stand, I lifted her by her ankles off my shoulders while she mantled out.
:stud:
Looked like a pretty hard mantle. Once she was out, I upclimbed the upcanyon side of the pothole and traversed/climbed across with the rope. 1/2 full, this pothole could be fairly hard. First time I did GDJ, I came down the next small fork to the east, which dumps in about 100 meters below the keeper, and makes a nice way to avoid the keeper. No raps in the other fork, but a few downclimbs.
Amazing how much these canyons change.
RC
Iceaxe
08-09-2006, 03:16 PM
that's really interesting shane about the depth of the pothole when you first did the canyon.
Folks kept talking about the difficult pothole in GDJ. I thought they were just weak canyoneers. I mean really, how hard is it to climb out of a 4' pothole. :haha:
I was really surprised when I saw what had happened to the pothole since my previous visit. Also probably some type of warning in here about always go prepared or something like that.....
:popcorn:
ajroadtrips
08-09-2006, 03:48 PM
Haha... yeah, from your description I was expecting a pretty casual affair, especially since I had done the other fork previously with no pothole problems.
If memory serves, this is the first rap with no major downclimbs above, so people could probably retreat easily if needed. Just don't pull your rope until your out of the hole....
hesse15
08-10-2006, 05:41 PM
that's really interesting shane about the depth of the pothole when you first did the canyon.
i like the different ways this pothole has been dealt with. i took a sampling of images from eric's video when we did the canyon at the beginning of january.
to one end of the rope was tied a potshot, nat is rappelling down the other half of the rope. he places his left foot on the lip of the pothole,
then pulls himself up, using the other rope. no easy task as the stretch is a bit far, and you need to slowly let the brake off for slack.
At first i was very impress of how you deal with the pothole :eek2:
but after i talked to BF and he knew Nat, and he said that Nat is a 5.13 climber!!!!!
that make HUGE DIFFERENCE!!!!
i do not think average canyoneer can do that
is a pretty wide damn hole and penalty points can be at least some broken bones!!!!
my version is the easy one!!!
:five:
just carry a potshot and a strong shoulder man and pothole is done!!! :nod: :rockon:
by the way the secon pothole in good day gym is ok if dry and 2 people other wise you can walk across on top
leave a man up in case people have to climb back up
the lip is too smooth and low angle for potshot and the toss can be pretty high
stefan
08-10-2006, 06:44 PM
nat is rappelling down ...then pulls himself up, using the other rope. no easy task as the stretch is a bit far, and you need to slowly let the brake off for slack.
At first i was very impress of how you deal with the pothole :eek2:
but after i talked to BF and he knew Nat, and he said that Nat is a 5.13 climber!!!!!
so now you're not impressed :ne_nau: ... :haha:
well i was impressed ... and i DID say that it was no easy task. i approached it the same way Nat did, inching my way over and getting my foot up on the lip and making the first move to get up, at which point nat and eric grabbed on and helped me up. without their help i would have fallen back into the chute, but not into the pothole as i was still on rappel. it may be hard to tell, but Nat was also on rappel the whole time as well.
just carry a potshot and a strong shoulder man and pothole is done!!!
Lets see. Shane finds it to be 4 feet deep and you find it to be dry and 12 feet deep or so. I have found it filled in, nearly to the top, 6 feet down to the water and a swimmer and 18 feet deep and dry. Seems that we have a place that changes a lot and can get pretty burly. I saw Steve Levin climb across, but he has also done 40 ascents, many 1st ascents, of the Diamond on Longs Peak. He called it hard 11. Saw Stevie B do a frightening "launch" up the side of the wall, coming to a momentary stop, 8 feet up the wall, then slide down to the other lip, no problem. He did this without warning anyone. Wild. I saw Roylnn do it the way Nat did it, except she was being lowered, rather than on rap, which has the advantage of freeing up the rap hand and eliminating rapping too low. We alway set an easy tyrolian for everyone else. It was also mentioned that this was the first tough spot and that retreat is easy...sort of. There is a 10 foot optional rap, about....maybe 60 yards back? Anyway, one can peek the pothole problem, while the higher problem remains fixed. Another reminder that change is the constant.
Ram :idea:
stefan
08-11-2006, 08:37 AM
Lets see. Shane finds it to be 4 feet deep and you find it to be dry and 12 feet deep or so. I have found it filled in, nearly to the top, 6 feet down to the water and a swimmer and 18 feet deep and dry. Seems that we have a place that changes a lot and can get pretty burly.
wild :eek2:
Saw Stevie B do a frightening "launch" up the side of the wall, coming to a momentary stop, 8 feet up the wall, then slide down to the other lip, no problem. He did this without warning anyone.
he did WHAT? okay, so i am confused which way he went, i have drawn on an image 2 pairs of arrows, i am guessin' it's gotta be 1, since that pothole is rather large to jump across (unless you're the REAL spiderman). but i don't have a good image that shows where he would have started from, to jump across, to ensure that "no problem" sliding to the other lip as opposed to possibly sliding in the pothole. could you enlighten. second of all, i am sure steveeB knows what he's doing, but when you're with a group, shouldn't you always warn the group or at least the leaders of the group what you intend to do? even crazy climbers do this?
http://math.bu.edu/people/sf/img/sbjump.jpg
We alway set an easy tyrolian for everyone else.
i like this idea ... with the opposite anchor being human and/or multiple potshot?
he did WHAT? okay, so i am confused which way he went, i have drawn on an image 2 pairs of arrows, i am guessin' it's gotta be 1,
He did WHAT!!! indeed. #1 is the way he went, except he went a lot higher and further, up to and on top of the broken feature,in the picture, on the ridge, leading down to where the potshot is located, in the picture. From up there, he stop momentarily, then slide down casually. It was an awesome athletic move, but real out there. He did share his plan with the leader. He was the leader. I told him he should have run it by us, as someone might have moved, expectantly and gotten in the way. A bit reckless, but it was over before any discussion could occur. The apex of your #1 diagram is about the height which Levin traversed over. So delicate, so controlled and smooth. Like poetry. He was on a loose belay, as if.....
As for the Tyrolean....we set up a double rope rap, from the boulders, 20 feet back, on the up canyon side of the potrhole and the fellow who solves the problem ties both ends to his harness and slips over the substantial downcanyon lip and lays down, fully weighting it. Then we clip a locker over both ropes, attached to a daisy, girthed to our harnesses and with good feet, batman along the rope to the other side. Once all are over, pull the rope :2thumbs:
Ram
Iceaxe
08-11-2006, 09:35 AM
indeed. #1 is the way he went, except he went a lot higher and further, up
Dang.....
I'm not sure if I should cheer or just mutter "Dumbass" :ne_nau:
Reminds me of a time climbing in the Tetons when my partner made a magnificent unannounced lunge move over a precipice that was in our path. Only problem is we were climbing in coils (roped together but no belay).
After I finished cheering his great athletic move I proceeded to kick his ass for endangering me without my knowledge.
:popcorn:
stefan
08-11-2006, 09:40 AM
is the way he went, except he went a lot higher and further, up to and on top of the broken feature,in the picture, on the ridge, leading down to where the potshot is located, in the picture.
okay, i kinda figured this, as it would seem that you could potentially slide into the pothole otherwise. actually i had the arrows drawn more as you suggest (though not high enough since the image is downlower) ... i guess you could call me a flipflopper :haha:
so does this image describe it more accurately?
http://math.bu.edu/people/sf/img/sbjump2.jpg
The apex of your #1 diagram is about the height which Levin traversed over. So delicate, so controlled and smooth. Like poetry. He was on a loose belay, as if.....
WOW!
As for the Tyrolean....
cool! thanks for the description!! :2thumbs:
Brian in SLC
08-11-2006, 09:46 AM
These "matrix" moves work great, until they don't. Saw a bud of Stevie B's in Greece that had miscued from one of these stunts. Ouch.
But, talent in motion, no doubt. Like dropping into a steep ski line, sight unseen.
-Brian in SLC
Iceaxe
08-11-2006, 10:06 AM
These "matrix" moves work great, until they don't.
.......... :toofunny:
How much water was in the pothole when Stevee did this?
How much water was in the pothole when Stevee did this?
It was the time when the water was 6 feet below the downcanyon lip....in other words, from the place he launched, to the high point...if he had gone water...18-20 foot fall.
Your pal in the Tetons was no pal. At least it was Stevee ass only at this spot....aside from having to deal with a miss. He has a good feel of what he can do. I can still see and remember the force of his dyno, coming off that little leprechaun body. Power there.
Stefan....I think your on it, although he didn't start from very far back.
R
stefan
08-11-2006, 11:57 AM
Stefan....I think your on it, although he didn't start from very far back.
wow ... sketchy as hell but impressive none-the-less.
Iceaxe
08-11-2006, 01:15 PM
Your pal in the Tetons was no pal.
I never climbed or canyoneered with the guy again..... and never will..... I've heard through the grape vine that this type of crap was not an isolated situation with him.
One of the problems of being a climbing/canyon slut and doin' it with everyone.
:popcorn:
stefan
08-11-2006, 02:43 PM
One of the problems of being a climbing/canyon slut and doin' it with everyone.
ice, you better be careful of those STD's ... Stupidly Transmitted Deaths
hesse15
08-11-2006, 04:02 PM
just carry a potshot and a strong shoulder man and pothole is done!!!
Saw Stevie B do a frightening "launch" up the side of the wall, coming to a momentary stop, 8 feet up the wall, then slide down to the other lip, no problem. He did this without warning anyone. Wild. I saw Roylnn do it the way Nat did it, except she was being lowered, rather than on rap, which has the advantage of freeing up the rap hand and eliminating rapping too low. We alway set an easy tyrolian for everyone else. .
Ram :idea:
I think what we did for Mr K. was that
me weighting the rope and he rap and use my part of the rope to direction and keep high
a little like a guided rappel of sort off
but beeter asking technical question to Ryan
i am not big fun of jumping ,i have already one leg totally messed up and my times doing crazy thing are over
from what i hear this guy stevee b.sound interesting personality
i will like to meet him one day
:popcorn:
and yes having Ryan along make stuff much easier and fun :five:
stefan
08-13-2006, 08:06 AM
I think what we did for Mr K. was that me weighting the rope and he rap and use my part of the rope to direction and keep high a little like a guided rappel of sort
cool! and this worked out pretty well sounds like. so did it just keep him high enough to be able to climb up the lip of the pothole, or were you able to keep him higher somehow?
i am not big fun of jumping ,i have already one leg totally messed up and my times doing crazy thing are over
yeah me neither. what happened to your leg? feel like tellin' a story?
hesse15
08-14-2006, 09:12 AM
cool! and this worked out pretty well sounds like. so did it just keep him high enough to be able to climb up the lip of the pothole, or were you able to keep him higher somehow?
i was down in the other side but i think he just kind of grab my end of the rope meanwhile the other end was on rap and control by Ryan so Mr K. was able to just walk over the pothole no problem
you have to consider that Mr K. is very light weight ( i think around 150lb ) so me and the potshot attach were 140lb so was easy to counterweight
i do not think i can do that with somebody that weight 240lb!!!!!
yeah me neither. what happened to your leg? feel like tellin' a story?
when i was 18 (looong time ago) i crashed driving my motorcycle(bad italian driver) and i blew my right ACL legament and my full cartilage in my right knee
at the time my only activity was window shopping and do lizard at the beach for 8 hours at day from may to september
so i never fixed it and i have to be really carefull because when my knee get out of the housing is damn painfull and is 2 weeks laying on bed
last time he blew off i was dancing with 4 inches stiletto heels...so i need to be carefull and definetly no jumping allowed.
by the way if you never need somebody staying in the boat the whole day in powell waiting meanwhile you do crazy canyons count on me!!!!
:2thumbs:
stefan
08-14-2006, 01:19 PM
cool! and this worked out pretty well sounds like. so did it just keep him high enough to be able to climb up the lip of the pothole, or were you able to keep him higher somehow?
i was down in the other side but i think he just kind of grab my end of the rope meanwhile the other end was on rap and control by Ryan so Mr K. was able to just walk over the pothole no problem
you have to consider that Mr K. is very light weight ( i think around 150lb ) so me and the potshot attach were 140lb so was easy to counterweight
i do not think i can do that with somebody that weight 240lb!!!!!
nice! :2thumbs:
yeah me neither. what happened to your leg? feel like tellin' a story?
when i was 18 (looong time ago) i crashed driving my motorcycle(bad italian driver) and i blew my right ACL legament and my full cartilage in my right knee. so i never fixed it and i have to be really carefull because when my knee get out of the housing is damn painfull and is 2 weeks laying on bed. last time he blew off i was dancing with 4 inches stiletto heels...so i need to be carefull and definetly no jumping allowed.
oof, that sounds aweful! sorry to hear about that. i see your concern. so you haven't had any trouble yet in canyons it seems. that's good. it's a terrible place to have a problem, and i think everyone worries about this on some level.
how does it feel when you're stemming/downclimbing in canyons? painful? or is this type of movement okay?
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