Fire in California

[DaveOU812]

Have any of you guys heard about this? Last I heard it was 36,000 acres and was only 16% contained. It's right next to my house. These pictures are when it first started so it's kinda small. It's gettin bad with the smoke blowing over.

[rock_ski_cowboy]

Have any of you guys heard about this? Last I heard it was 36,000 acres and was only 16% contained. It's right next to my house. These pictures are when it first started so it's kinda small. It's gettin bad with the smoke blowing over.

Try posting this over on ucalifornia.com we don't know nuthin bout it! :ne_nau: just kidding, good luck with the fire, hope it goes out soon.

[Alex]

we don't know nuthin bout it! :ne_nau: just kidding, good luck with the fire, hope it goes out soon.

Sadly it ain't true. Just a step outside of my front door will remind you California is near by with it's fires. Isn't California suppose to drop off into the ocean any time soon? It's kind of overdue.... it sure could take its fires with itself. Then the Utah air will clean and fresh :haha:

[rockgremlin]

Try posting this over on ucalifornia.com we don't know nuthin bout it! :ne_nau:

:roflol: Too funny...

[Scott Card]

I thought you sunny So. Californians were used to the four seasons- Flood, Fire, Riot, Earthquake. I went through all four when I was there for school. On a more serious note, very scary stuff. I remember a Malibu fire that they never did control. It would have burned for who knows how long were it not for a wind shift and a really big ocean in front of it to stop the spreading. There were some fires in, I believe, Laguna Beach that did the same thing, burned till it hit the ocean. Those Santa Anna's (winds) are killers.

[DaveOU812]

It could fall off the US and into the ocean and I would shed a single tear. I hate the place. Course it doesn't help that I'm in the middle of the mojave desert. Butt crack of the earth.

[stefan]

It could fall off the US and into the ocean and I would shed a single tear. I hate the place. Course it doesn't help that I'm in the middle of the mojave desert. Butt crack of the earth.

what? so cal? aww i love california ... though i'm more partial to northern california. why do you hate it so much?

[stefan]

Sadly it ain't true. Just a step outside of my front door will remind you California is near by with it's fires. Isn't California suppose to drop off into the ocean any time soon? It's kind of overdue.... it sure could take its fires with itself. Then the Utah air will clean and fresh :haha:

sadly it ain't true kazak, between the dust the west desert kicks up, the pollution from the cars, factories,industry, etc., the incineration of chemical weapons in toole, as well as the heavy metal dust falling from gold mining in nevada, and whatever else i am not mentioning, utah's air will require much more than california disappearing to clear up. in fact one might say utah doesn't show overwhelming concern for cleaning its air up. i guess we'll have to wait till there is some sort of crisis ... oh well.

for all this california hatred, california is one of the most important states in the union. California economy is larger than all but the top 7 national economies in the world and is responsible for 13% of the United States' $13 trillion gross domestic product (GDP). Supposedly the central valley is (artificially so) the most fertile or productive land on the planet. silicon valley/wine country ... enough said there. it has extensive and absolutely spectacular outdoors opportunities. unfortunately too may people wanna live there and it's become ridiculously expensive. california has made a lot of mistakes that utah, sadly so, has not learned a single bit from. everywhere has armpits, buttcracks, and whatever ... but i am sticking up for california

viva california :bud:

[Sombeech]

for all this california hatred, california is one of the most important states in the union. California economy is larger than all but the top 7 national economies in the world and is responsible for 13% of the United States' $13 trillion gross domestic product (GDP). Supposedly the central valley is (artificially so) the most fertile or productive land on the planet. silicon valley/wine country ... enough said there. it has extensive and absolutely spectacular outdoors opportunities. unfortunately too may people wanna live there and it's become ridiculously expensive. california has made a lot of mistakes that utah, sadly so, has not learned a single bit from. everywhere has armpits, buttcracks, and whatever ... but i am sticking up for california

viva california :bud:

Yeah, but how much of the national debt can california claim? Gov. Gray was sinking that ship.

What mistakes of california has utah not learned from?

[donny h]

Fire: Dave, my sympathies, I've been up close to a couple of those big fires, and it's no fun, after a few days, it's torture.

I don't get 'used' to smoke any more than I get 'used' to hitting my thumb with a hammer. They both suck, and they both feel so good when they stop.

Ca dept: The federal debt belongs to the feds, Ca is a payer state, that means it pays more money to the feds than it gets back in spending.

Ca IS mired in debt, and exgov Davis DOES deserve a great deal of the blame for that, as well as the credit rating of Ca., which is in the tank, meaning all that debt is much more expensive to carry than it was just a decade ago.

Agriculture:

We WOULD all be hungry if Ca. fell into the sea, something like 90% of the TABLE crops grown in the US come from the San Joaquin Valley ALONE, not even counting the other vast growing areas like the Imperial Valley, Sacramento Delta, the northern wine country of Sonoma/Napa, and the central coastal valleys running from Gilroy down past SLO.

The largest industry in Ca. still remains tourism, even with all the farming.

The largest industry north of San Fransisco is pot, and it is a significant industry throughout the state, but the same could be said of Or, Wa, Az, Co, and Hawaii.

The one thing Ca. has too much of is people, LA county alone is about six times as populated as Utah, all those people is why I left. Now Springville is too crowded for me, I think I'll move to Hanksville.

Yes, I get the irony of fleeing from Ca and complaining about population growth in my new town. Watch out, Hanksville.

Here is a lesson Utah needs to learn: quit exporting power, and polluting the air here for use in Ca.

The largest coal fired plant in Utah is down by Delta, and the SOLE customer of that power is Los Angeles Dept. of Water and Power. Yep, you heard right, check it out, Utahns breath extra mercury to make power for LA. LADWP wants to build another one just like it, right next to the current one.

Nevada does this too, there is a new coal fired plant in Primm, about two miles away from the Ca. border, and this plant burns Price coal, carried by a new water-filled coal pipeline they built.

Why aren't these plants in Ca? Air quality regs and NIMBYism.

Gotta' run...

[stefan]

Yeah, but how much of the national debt can california claim? Gov. Gray was sinking that ship.



so donny answered this one, but how about the national debt as it has grown since bush has entered office? he's been criticized numerous times for his budget and his tax cuts ... and where are we now? over 8 trillion dollars (see http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/). take a look at this graph (below) and tell me what you think about it. it's been corrected for inflation . (taken from http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/faq.html) Notice the trend during Reagan's (81-89), Bush's SR(89-93) and W's term(01-now), versus the trend during Clinton's term(94-00). In fact clinton not only was trying to curb growth, in his last two years, he was able to reverse it.

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/inflation.gif



What mistakes of california has utah not learned from?

well my intentions with this comment were more aligned with the fact that california has often made the attempts and seen the outcomes of countless decisions and actions before many other places. it's my belief that state governments should be scrutinizing the decisions and actions of pioneering states, to make more informed future decisions.

i have heard many examples given in the past, but two on my mind at the moment are ...

(1) california has experienced a population explosion long before utah. in los angeles urban growth rapidly lead to urban sprawl as city has blanked the entire LA basin and beyond. the effects of such urban sprawl were also made clear, such as the loss of open space and farming land. ONE problem with sprawl is that it consumes large tracks of land and only allows a small population to live there. this leads to an enormous city where it's extremely expensive to live close to city centers. then people continually seek land further out, as it is the most affordable ... and when does this process end? why didn't salt lake city decide to try to develop a denser city? why are people moving near kennecott to live more affordably? i know bigger house, more land, more ammenities. but this is not sustainable, not to mention an unnecessary waste of gas.


(2) water conservation, we live in a freaking desert, the second driest state, next to NV. southern california has had MAJOR water issues for a very long time (even lead to the advent of modern skateboarding :2thumbs:). i think it's clear that you can't solve the problem of watering a large population (which increasingly grows) by relying on the expectation of snow/rainfall and the building of new reservoirs. california has needed to look far from it's population centers for water.

in general utahns don't conserve water ... it's been touted that washington county, utah, has the highest water usage in the united states, and that with conservation and other small modifications they would not need the more popular plan of building a new pipeline from lake powell. and all over the wasatch front, where it's often 90+ degrees in the summer with little cloud cover, we plant GRASS EVERYWHERE (and fewer trees) ... we need to conserve more and learn how to live more sustainably in the desert.