Preparing for Bear country

[Sombeech]

We're heading to the Wind Rivers soon, and we want to take precautions for the teddy bears up there.

I've heard that if you hike with a little jingle bell, that can keep them away.

But what I'm most concerned with, is night time. What is the best method of tying up your food? Last year, we just strund a rope through our sacks of food, and hung them up in the tree. We will have about 8 of us this time, and was wondering if some kind of cargo net will be better.

Any advice? :ne_nau:

[accadacca]

We can just throw them all in a tarp and tie it up by the corners. :2thumbs:

[Alex]

Common sense is the best defense!

Tie your food at least 50 feet away from the camp.
Do not have any snacks/chocolate bars in the tents.
What I did the last time I was up there, is to tie a rope between the two trees and then another rope right in the middle of the first one. Then all of my food was suspended away from the trees and the ground. With this technique you can tie up seperate smaller bags of food instead of a single large bag.
I'd also get the bear pepper spray, even though it might not work (who knows!), at least it will make you feel better to be armed (and dangerous) :nod:

Link Here (http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=4710&parent_category_rn=4500520&vcat=REI_SEARCH)

[stefan]

one bit of advice, which *may* be of interest to you

drybags can be used to hold your food, especially when you hang it. drybags help to contain a large percentage of the food odor and, secondarily, it keeps your food dry in the rain. course it's a little bit of extra weight.

i used this method (which i learned in alaska) when i didn't have any bear barrels/bearproof containers and i was hiking in tundra near the arctic circle, with no place to hang food.

bells? your choice. maybe you already know this (not foolproof) but if you come across a bear, the most important thing is to make your presence very well known and to make your body LARGE (your hair will help). raise your arms high, don't back away quickly, and call out in a deep, loud voice. the more you make the bear realize that you're not a meak animal, the more likely it will not want to get involved with you or charge you. once you establish yourself and you want to leave, you can move away slowly...always facing the bear and never too quickly.

[mroy]

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/bear_bag_hanging_technique.html

I remember reading that a while back I mistakenly assumed they were serious in explaining the trad system for bear bagging then came step 4.

[Scott P]

Bear advice:

1. You don't have to out run a bear. You only have to outrun the slowest member of your group.

2. Bear cubs are not "cute" and you shouldn't pick them up.

3. Living with and filming bears can be dangerous.

4. If you are eating only Power Bars, you need not worry about hanging your food.

True story:

Some hikers I know backpacked in to a location in Yellowstone National Park and set up camp. They left for a dayhike to a hot spring. While they were gone, a bear raided the camp. The bear couldn't get to the main food stash, but did raid the camp good. The bear ate the groups dirty socks, dirty underwear, some pack straps, and other various items. Someone accidentally left some Power Bars out. There were a few teeth marks in some of them, but the bear did not eat them. The moral of the story is that Power Bars taste worse than dirty socks and dirty underwear.

In all seriousness, forget about the net and hang your food in seperate trees. A cargo net is going to be way too heavy with eight people's stuff and may break the branch, not to mention makes a more conspicuous target for squirrels and such. Black bears can climb trees, but not grizzlies.

If camping above timberline, bears aren't a problem, but marmots can be. If that is the case, only canisters work as their usually isn't anywhere to hang food. I wish I thought of it because the marmots raided our camp on Mt. Belford last year, and either ate or pooped on all my then three year old son's favorite treats (including his gummy worms) :cry: .

[icthys]

Careful about the way you string up your bear bag. We had a bear cut ours down years ago in the Winds. That said, I'm not going to suggest how to hand a bear bag, it'll just get cut down.

[accadacca]

The moral of the story is that Power Bars taste worse than dirty socks and dirty underwear.
:lol8: :lol8: :lol8:

[Mtnman1830]

I remember a story about a guide telling his clients that 'jingle bells' will make bears aware that you are around. When the hiker asked the guide how he could tell the difference between black bear scat and grizzly scat, the guide told him the grizzly poop has bells in it.

[northernoutpost]

A few random thoughts for you...

One thing to do is be aware of your surroundings while you are hiking. Bear encounters are more likely in open areas of low visibility, such as avalanche paths with a lot of thick brush. You can sort of pick and choose where to be noisy, if you like. Bears in a lot of the more popular hiking areas have acclimated to the sound of bells, and the result is an uneffective method that will quickly become annoying. Singing or talking is better, although maybe your partners will think differently :haha:. Also remember that most bears will go out of their way to avoid you, provided they have advance warning. In many cases, if you are walking in a downwind direction, there will be no problems unless the bear is specifically seeking an encounter (eg predatory). Of course, you can't always have this advantage.

I've always been a little skeptical about over the counter bear-proof containers. Those buggers could detect a fart in Argentina if given the chance. There are a few home deterents that you could mix up, but the general best approach is just to hang the food. You have to get more creative above treeline. Your biggest problem is more likely to be rodents of varying sizes.

Another thing to keep in mind is that response to a bear encounter will vary according to species and behavior. "Making yourself big and assertive" is good for black bears, but grizzlies (I know a few have ranged into the northern Winds) are a different matter. The standard approach if an encounter has occurred is to back away slowly while keeping the bear in vision (but avoiding eye contact). Both species will tend to bluff charge, and there is not much I can suggest other than to bring an extra pair of underwear... :2thumbs:

Predatory behavior is rare, but in an unprovoked attack, the basic route is to fight back against either, although a Grizzly will generally win. The "drop and cover" approach sometimes works in these cases, but not always. I can offer up that I see dozens of bears each year in the course of work and play, but have never had a problem and personally have only met two people that have been attacked.

If you can find it, a copy of "Bear Attacks: Their causes and avoidance" (James Herrero, I believe is the author) is a good read.

Oh, and as was recently discovered by a remains-to-be-identified individual, bear spray and crampons do not mix. The burning doesn't subside for hours....

[Alex]

although a Grizzly will generally win.

...you don't say :roflol:

[stefan]

Another thing to keep in mind is that response to a bear encounter will vary according to species and behavior. "Making yourself big and assertive" is good for black bears, but grizzlies (I know a few have ranged into the northern Winds) are a different matter. The standard approach if an encounter has occurred is to back away slowly while keeping the bear in vision (but avoiding eye contact).

that's interesting in 3 parks i have been to in alaska [including denali, which requires extensive information for backcountry], i don't remember their making such a distinction. they recommended using the same approach in both cases, if i remember correctly.

could you explain more clearly (besides eye contact) the difference?

[Shan]

I didn't read all the replies, but I found that there just weren't good trees for hanging food! Too short of tree, not long enough branches, rope was not long enough of other rigging ideas.

We stayed at Seneca Lake for 2 nights (up Elkhart Park) and we actually hung our food over a cliff, so yes our food was dangling over the water. That was a little nerve racking to me as I feared each morning we'd wake up with no food!

Our final destination was Titcomb Basin which has NO trees to hang anything. So what do you even do there? I guess put it far away from camp under some big rocks. At least that was the plan (but we didn't make it there that trip).

So if you put it in the tree, it needs to be out from the trunk 10' or else the bear can just climb the tree and get your food. YOu can try googling how to hang food in bear country and there will be a few diagrams I bet.

I also didn't bring any scented toiletries. Everything was unscented. I am a big scaredy cat in bear country. Sleep is basically out of the question for me. Nothing in the tent, not even chapstick.

Your tent, cook/eat area, and food should all make a 100' triangle. Keep them all separate. AND - I even slept in different clothes than I cooked in. There's grizzlies up there - you don't want to mess around.

I didn't wear a bell but I talked loudly before turning any blind corners.

[Shan]

Do bears like bug spray? I mean it does have a scent even though it may claim to be unscented. I would try to wash the DEET off before bedtime as much as I could. My husband thought I was being too extreme. But hey, I did NOT want to encounter a bear.

[Alex]

Also, just an FYI, it's better to stay away from the bear country if it's close to the time of the month. Kind of a common sense, but I have gone with one girl in the past who wasn't aware of that. Luckily, we came out ok without any trouble.

[Shan]

Also, just an FYI, it's better to stay away from the bear country if it's close to the time of the month. Kind of a common sense, but I have gone with one girl in the past who wasn't aware of that. Luckily, we came out ok without any trouble.

Well there's nothing actually going on when you're "close to that time of month." But anyway, I have read that it does not play a factor in attracting bears. Mainly if you use tampons. And using pads while hiking is just gross IMO.

http://www.bearsmart.com/bearFacts/BehaviourMyths.html

Myth: It is dangerous to go into bear country when menstruating.

Fact: Current evidence suggests that menstruation does not increase the likelihood of an attack by a black or grizzly bear, but tampons are recommended over pads. They may be disposed of by burning and then packing out the remains.

I guess this would have more research piled into one place.

http://www.yellowstone-bearman.com/menstruation_data.html

[accadacca]

Sleep is basically out of the question for me.
Hells Bells! :eek2:

I brought my bivy sack last time and planned to sleep in it. I ended up in the tent with the rest of the posse. Call me crazy, dumb or just naive. But I ain't skeered of beeeears. :crazy:

[Alex]

Shan, I stand corrected. :ne_nau: Here is another site on this topic:

http://www.nps.gov/yell/nature/animals/bear/infopaper/info7.html

Good to know....

[northernoutpost]

Another thing to keep in mind is that response to a bear encounter will vary according to species and behavior. "Making yourself big and assertive" is good for black bears, but grizzlies (I know a few have ranged into the northern Winds) are a different matter. The standard approach if an encounter has occurred is to back away slowly while keeping the bear in vision (but avoiding eye contact).

that's interesting in 3 parks i have been to in alaska [including denali, which requires extensive information for backcountry], i don't remember their making such a distinction. they recommended using the same approach in both cases, if i remember correctly.

could you explain more clearly (besides eye contact) the difference?

Maybe I should clarify the statement a bit better. It is always best to simply remove oneself from the situation by doing just that, but the essential logic here is that the grizzly is better able to enforce its dominance. Black bears will tend to be a little more conservative as to what they will charge, and in a situation where confronted by the bear, it is best to stack the odds in your favour. I wouldn't advocate charging through the bear as an effective tactic, just remember that the size equation is a little more even and the bear is less likely to act aggressively if it believes it is at a disadvantage. Keep in mind that this statement is still openly debated, but has generally worked for me in the past. Essentially the same approach as for mountain lions, I believe.

I note that the group that was mentioned at the beginning of this thread was actually quite large, so that in itself acts as a deterrent for both species. A common approach in the Rocky Mountain parks (Banff, Jasper and such) is to have a lower limit on group size for certain trails with active bear populations. This illustrates a bit of what I'm talking about. Alternatively, the standard approach for doing mineral exploration in smaller groups up north is simply to have a mighty big gun in your possession at all times. :popcorn:

[Sombeech]

Those buggers could detect a fart in Argentina if given the chance.

:lol8: Well, we'll either be in GREAT shape, or terrible shape. There will be plenty of that around the campsite. Question is, is it a repellant, or attractant?

Also, I will be courteous to my fellow campmates, and buy ear plugs for them. I snore very loudly. Will this keep the bears away at night?

[stefan]

Another thing to keep in mind is that response to a bear encounter will vary according to species and behavior. "Making yourself big and assertive" is good for black bears, but grizzlies (

that's interesting in 3 parks i have been to in alaska [including denali, which requires extensive information for backcountry], i don't remember their making such a distinction. they recommended using the same approach in both cases, if i remember correctly.

could you explain more clearly (besides eye contact) the difference?

Maybe I should clarify the statement a bit better. It is always best to simply remove oneself from the situation by doing just that, but the essential logic here is that the grizzly is better able to enforce its dominance. Black bears will tend to be a little more conservative as to what they will charge, and in a situation where confronted by the bear, it is best to stack the odds in your favour. I wouldn't advocate charging through the bear as an effective tactic,

agreed. i guess i should have clarified in my first post that "charging through" was definitely not recommended. i didn't realize this is what you meant in your statement. thanks. for clarifying. i know you weren't necessarily referring to my post, but yes i'd always avocate backing away and not progressing until it's clear. i intended to imply this, but didn't quite.

it's a very good point and worthwhile distinction.

[accadacca]

There will be plenty of that around the campsite. Question is, is it a repellant, or attractant?
The "extra baggage" could be an attractant. They may look for the biggest piece of meat on the plate. :eat: :lol8:

[Sombeech]

They may look for the biggest piece of meat on the plate. :eat: :lol8:

LeRoy's still got me beat there. But we could really use Don up there, to create a distraction during mating season. Too bad there isn't a helicopter service though.

[goofball]

not only food storage but consumption can help minimize unwanted encounters (bear or otherwise). eat down wind from camp a good ways. i try to be at least 100 yards away. don't cook in camp, cook where you will eat (down wind 100 yards +). if i dirty a pot i will clean it by gettign some stream bottom gravel (the littel bits) in it to us as a scourer and let the stream disperse the particles down and away from camp. again clean where you cook and eat , or down stream a ways. dehydrated is the only way i have gone for extended backpacks the last 2-3 years. light and easy clean up, just double ziplock the package when done and dispose when back in society. & i never sleep in the clothes i eat in, tucking them in with everything else to hang - aka, everything. all that gets left out is boots and and water. ursa makes a kevlarish sack i think that is pretty bear proof/resistant. there is always the hard plastic containers, these suck, big and bulky and heavy, but i carried one for 7 days thru the olympics and felt it was worth it. saw at least one bear every day. i should have hung as trees were bountiful. above treeline or where trees are short and inadequate, hanging off a cliff sounds like a good option, if a little nerve wracking. burying at the bottom of a cairn erected over the pack is a good option as well. you could at least hear the animal trying to get at it and have time to scare it off before your goodies got hijacked. i also hang or bury away from camp, upwind from where i cooked and ate, but away from camp a ways - not upwind from camp though. if you google the subject in different ways you will find some good advice i bet.

[KillEmAll]

Last time we were up in the Winds we found black bear scat. I'm not too scared of black bears. Grizzlies, that's another story. Grizzlies are probably pretty scarce in the area we're going to, and I'm guessing they don't share their territory, so seeing a blackie means no grizzlies. Plus, I know I'm not the slowest. :haha:

[Sombeech]

Plus, I know I'm not the slowest. :haha:

Hey!

[TreeHugger]

This has been interesting reading.

Shan, I'm like you. I am a big sissy in bear country - hasnt kept me out of it but I always feel stressed when I'm there (kinda kills the "lets go backpacking to relax" ideal, doesnt it?), and I dont sleep much either. My sister, whom I have always packed with, wears earplugs so she cant hear anything, but I like to hear so I know what to expect. Problem with that is, you think every sound is a bear!

OK, so we're headed into bear country at the end of the month for 5 nights. We're debating on the bear canister thing... there was one at REI that has grooves in it so you can hang it as well. They just seem so SMALL.

Has anyone used these? and how much stuff could you fit in one? Would we need two for 5 days/night worth of food, plus toiletries?

Do you hang your packs as well as your food?

What about clothes? I dont want my food smelling clothes I cooked and ate in anywhere near me when I'm in the tent - but I know they wont fit in a bear canister?

Ahhhhh!! so much to think about!!

[moabfool]

Most of the time I spend backpacking is in bear country. I've seen bears a couple times and they've either run away or have noted our presence with toleration.

To hang our food we just take our sleeping bag stuff sacks and put all oderiferous items in there (taking care to not get any stinky stuff on the stuff sack for obvious reasons). Taking a separate food dity bag would be advisable. More than one rope is needed for larger groups.

The logic on surviving a hostile bear encounter changes periodicaly, so read up from time to time. The latest school of thought basically says if you are confronted by a bear in the daytime they're startled and defending their territory. Talk softly, avoiding eye contact. Take a wide detour around the bear.

If the bear makes physical contact, keep your pack on and drop to the ground. The pack will protect your body and the bear may bite/swat your pack instead of your butt (a favorite target). Lie flat on your stomach with your hands behind your neck. Be still and quiet while waiting for the attack to end (may require a great deal of restraint). Leave the area when you feel it is safe to do so.

If you're attacked at night, you're probably on the menu. Fight hard and with anything you can get your hands on. The same applies to daylight attacks if you feel you're being hunted rather than defended against.

Here are links to Glacier, Grand Teton, and Yellowstone's documents on bears. Sorry, but you'll hafta scroll to get the bear info. Grand Teton has the better food hanging guidelines, and Glacier has the better bear encounter info IMHO.

http://www.nps.gov/glac/pdf/BCGuide-web.pdf

http://www.nps.gov/grte/pubs/brochures/backcountry.pdf

http://www.nps.gov/yell/publications/pdfs/backcountry/general.pdf