(have to vent) Sharing the trail with inconsiderate people..

[derstuka]

Ok, I wanted to label this as a**holes on dirtbikes, but with all the sensitivity around here lately, I have decided against it. Oh, and put this here, because I believe it is more than just for mtn biking, it is for hiking, motorcycling and ATVing as well.

I was riding on an epic solo ride in the mtns of San Diego on Sunday. It was hotter than a whore on dollar night that morning. I left my house at 7am, and starting riding a tad before 8am, but it was already smoking hot. Anyways, I was riding in an area called Lake Morena, which is a shared use area for motorcycles, ATVs, mtn bikes, and hikers...yeah, what a mix! Well, as I was climbing up a trail, I heard some dirt bikers coming, and (as always) I move to a safe side of the trail (actually off the trail) and wait for them to pass since they cannot hear me. I the first dirt bikers comes around the corner, totally sees me, proceeds to nod and roosters right by me creating dust clouds and tearing up the trail. The second guy must have been a newbie, as he was all over the place. He came around the corner wide, went into some bushes, then getting frustrated as he couldn't get out of them, he dumps the clutch and the bike jumps across the trail into another bush and almost falls on him. Then, once he gets straightened around, he proceeds to wave at me for waiting, and roosters by me going from one side of the trail to the other making a huge dust cloud in the process.

No, I do not hate dirtbikes, only some of the inconsiderate people such as these two idiots who have a total lack of regard for others, and the trail they are on. I have nothing against horses, yet it does bother me that they are allowed to crap on the trail and the riders do not ever clean it up during the ride, or after. I don't care if the crap is said to decompose fast, as I see it on the trail for weeks and weeks. I know that some mtn bikers are inconsiderate as well, and not all of a particular group is bad, however, I seem to have a knack for finding all the a-holes I tell ya. I expect to deal with off-roaders in this area, but I do not expect them to roostertail by me and tear the trail to shreds.

Oh, and this has nothing to do with many trails being created by dirtbikers. Like I said, my bone is not with the dirtbikes, only the inconsiderate people on them. Just as I have a bone with mtn bikers who do not yield to uphill riders (when there is not room to pass, and they do not wave them by), and almost run over hikers bombing down a hill.

BTW, this topic is currently on utahmountainbiking as well.

Anybody else have some bad experiences with dirtbikers, equestrians, other mtn bikers on the trail?

[DickHead]

Yep. Mueller park last year, I'm cranking uphill, and a guy comes bombing down on a downhill-bike so damn fast I never saw him coming. Almost nails me and yells something on his way by. I only had time to yell "slow down ****stick". Nevermind I'd passed a milf and her kids, and a couple boyscouts, all hiking up too.
Stupid person story:
Road biking south on 111 towards the copper pit, and I come across 5 or 6 old ladies (age 50+) strung out along a hill, on everything from a road bike to a rigid huffy MTB. I pass one or two, and come across one with obviously no cycling experience. "On your left" gets her to look left, and violently steer left in front of me....almost taking me out....
My second time in Moab during Easter Jeep. Trail leader stops, so there's 40 or so rigs stopped on the trail. CB crackles, trail leader says he's found some trash. Everyone gets out and starts loooking for more. I found a MTB tube. A little while later we're backed up at an obstacle, and these mountain bikes come alongside, bitching about the dust, the tire marks, etc ......my comment "don't forget all the litter we leave behind" as I dangle the MTB tube from my window.....

[moabfool]

I'm on a perpetual rag about trashy people. You know the kind. They're the ones who can carry full beer cans to the deepest reaches of the wilderness but the empty ones are just too heavy to carry back out. If the beauty isn't important to them why do they go?

About a year and a half ago I was hiking into Diamond Fork for a winter soak in the hot springs. In the course of about 1/2 mile I picked up 11 gum wrappers. That either means that one trashy guy crammed 11 pieces of gum in his gob, or he had 10 friends that were card carrying members of the "The World Is My Trash Can Alliance." Now I know they were just gum wrappers, but to find that many in such a short distance ... :frustrated: .

I'm becoming a member of the anti-horse crowd too. One example of how bad horses can make an area is the trail into Hidden Falls in The Tetons. I remember when I was a little tyke we used to hike into the falls every time we found ourselves up that direction. In addition to boat rides, a concessionaire used to offer horseback rides around Jenny Lake to the falls. So many horses passed that way that there were pools of urine and the trails were muddy all the time. I'm so glad The Park wised up and didn't renew their contract.

[Sombeech]

A little while later we're backed up at an obstacle, and these mountain bikes come alongside, bitching about the dust, the tire marks, etc ......my comment "don't forget all the litter we leave behind" as I dangle the MTB tube from my window.....

Yeah, I love that. When you're Jeeping in Moab, and you meet up with some bikers, for some reason they think it's you vs them. Even though I just rode Slickrock bike trail the day before, the "environmental biker friends" ask if we had "smashed any bushes lately".

For me, I think it's narrowminded to be a biker only. This is when you start getting defensive of bikers, against hikers and jeepers. So many people cross over into other hobbies, and those that don't are the ones choosing their sides. I Mtn bike, ATV, 4X4, backpack, and ride horses. (and once in a while hit a slot canyon) And like derstuka says, there are @$$holes in every aspect of the trail users.

[derstuka]

I'm on a perpetual rag about trashy people. You know the kind. They're the ones who can carry full beer cans to the deepest reaches of the wilderness but the empty ones are just too heavy to carry back out. If the beauty isn't important to them why do they go?

I couldn't agree more. It really ticks me off when I am riding in an area thought of pristine, and I look down and see a couple Yahoo chocolate milk containers next to my feet.



I'm becoming a member of the anti-horse crowd too. One example of how bad horses can make an area is the trail into Hidden Falls in The Tetons. I remember when I was a little tyke we used to hike into the falls every time we found ourselves up that direction. In addition to boat rides, a concessionaire used to offer horseback rides around Jenny Lake to the falls. So many horses passed that way that there were pools of urine and the trails were muddy all the time. I'm so glad The Park wised up and didn't renew their contract.

That reminds me of a trail I used to side. In the beginning of this trail, the switchback section is so worn down into a trough (and filled with crap)that your pedals actually hit the side of the trail because you are so far down.

I don't blame the horses, I just blame the people is all I am saying.

[DaveOU812]

I agree with Sombeech. There is that 5% of every group who is gonna be a prick. You can't necessarily pick a side because there is always one in each hobby. The best think you can do, in my mind, is to try and inform the person (nicely here folks) and pick up a little trash everywhere you go. It's never gonna stop happening but if you do what you can't to clean these areas up, at least your doing something.

[derstuka]

For me, I think it's narrowminded to be a biker only. This is when you start getting defensive of bikers, against hikers and jeepers. So many people cross over into other hobbies, and those that don't are the ones choosing their sides. I Mtn bike, ATV, 4X4, backpack, and ride horses. (and once in a while hit a slot canyon) And like derstuka says, there are @$$holes in every aspect of the trail users.

I agree completely, and that is why I was saying that I don't blame the horses, or the dirtbikes, only the inconsiderate people on them who think they own the land solely and can trash it at their disposal.

[RedMan]

Can we come up with some sort of punishment that can be metered out on the trails? Like the Scarlet Letter maybe?

I'm thinking flourescent pink paintballs. That way the next guy who sees them will know that the person headed towards them is a tool. The bigger the idot, the more they will be marked. The REAL idiots will be in enough pain by the end of the day they might stay home.

Yeah I live in a fantasy world. :assault:

[R]

Two years ago on the Elephant Hill trail in Canyonlands coming back from Druid Arch, my friend Michael and I found that someone, possibly a child, had stuck a gummy bear on each of a number of yucca plants. There they were, little orange and blue and red bears on the points of these desert plants. It was simultaneously funny and offensive - it looked ridiculous, but at the same time it was a form of vandalism. It reminds me to this day that some of the most obnoxious tourists are those who can't or don't keep their kids on a short enough leash. I'm not saying it's easy, but I have taken Mitchell to natural places since he was 11, and I not only keep an eye on him, I make sure to educate him on the value of respecting our surroundings and others who would like to enjoy them. He also knows about the Leave No Trace ethic.

And I don't let him have gummy bears. :twisted:

[derstuka]

Two years ago on the Elephant Hill trail in Canyonlands coming back from Druid Arch, my friend Michael and I found that someone, possibly a child, had stuck a gummy bear on each of a number of yucca plants. There they were, little orange and blue and red bears on the points of these desert plants. It was simultaneously funny and offensive - it looked ridiculous, but at the same time it was a form of vandalism. It reminds me to this day that some of the most obnoxious tourists are those who can't or don't keep their kids on a short enough leash. I'm not saying it's easy, but I have taken Mitchell to natural places since he was 11, and I not only keep an eye on him, I make sure to educate him on the value of respecting our surroundings and others who would like to enjoy them. He also knows about the Leave No Trace ethic.

And I don't let him have gummy bears. :twisted:

Soooo, the real question is "did you eat the gummy bears???"

[desertrat222]

O and what about those freehikers like they have the right to hike naked! :naughty:

[desertrat222]

wow i thought naked hiking would get some attention, sorry y'all must hike naked!!!! :bootyshake: :mrgreen:

[Windwalker]

The best think you can do, in my mind, is to try and inform the person (nicely here folks) and pick up a little trash everywhere you go. It's never gonna stop happening but if you do what you can't to clean these areas up, at least your doing something.


Unless your on the spot and see it happen one can only quess who is trashing the outdoors.

My problem is my wife, Liza. She wants to pick up every piece of garbage she sees along the trail. I've had to limit her to one doubled up walmart shopping bag per wheeler ride. If I don't we'd never see any of the country side.

I wish I knew what the answer is, if I did I'd freely give it away. No charge.