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View Full Version : What makes you mad about Mountain Bikers?



live2ride
04-02-2006, 08:24 PM
Ok I am asking for it on this one, I am and avid Mountain Biker and most of the time on my rides I will share the trail with a few hikers, as always I stop and get off the trail and try to be as courteous as possible, I try not to scare people; however, I know that many hikers don't like the bikers and I was just wondering why and what can we (mountain bikers) do to make it better on the trails for both of us. Thanks, let the slamming began. :2thumbs:

Udink
04-02-2006, 08:35 PM
Ok I am asking for it on this one, I am and avid Mountain Biker and most of the time on my rides I will share the trail with a few hikers, as always I stop and get off the trail and try to be as courteous as possible, I try not to scare people; however, I know that many hikers don't like the bikers and I was just wondering why and what can we (mountain bikers) do to make it better on the trails for both of us. Thanks, let the slamming began. :2thumbs:

Honestly, the hikers that feel the way that you described are probably the same people who want to turn everything into wilderness, do away with "mechanized" travel altogether, and do away with eating meat.

I do a fair amount of hiking, and a little mountain biking, and I have no problems with either. I would guess that any hiker that has a problem with mountain biking also has an agenda to push, one that is rooted in strong emotions and has no logical basis.

live2ride
04-02-2006, 08:45 PM
I do a fair amount of hiking, and a little mountain biking, and I have no problems with either. I would guess that any hiker that has a problem with mountain biking also has an agenda to push, one that is rooted in strong emotions and has no logical basis.


Great response, I was thinking on the same lines I guess that can go both ways and some mountain bikers scare the crap out of people and don't share the trail. Thanks!!!

shaggy125
04-02-2006, 09:12 PM
I don't own the trail and neither do you, we all do. There are people who want to push their opinion on everyone (we probably all do it to some degree for something we feel strongly about) but I'd guess most people respect that some people prefer to walk, some prefer to ride, some prefer to drive. I don't mind bikes when I'm hiking and I don't get what all the fuss is about when it comes to them. How much damage do they really do, and how much do they really ruin my "wilderness experience"? Come on :roll: Bad bikers ride where they aren't supposed to. Bad ATVer's also ride where they aren't supposed to. Bad hikers carve their names at the top of Angles Landing (my favorite is the big BYU carved in the rock :frustrated: ). Bad canyoneers carve their initials in Leprechaun Canyon. I'd say most people in each of these groups respect the rules and love the land they recreate in. Why does a small minority have to ruin it for everyone and create "biker haters" or "ATV haters" etc... Can't we all just get along? (Did I just try to push my opinion on everyone? Oops.)

Eric.

Sombeech
04-02-2006, 09:36 PM
It's probably just the same old turf wars that Jeepers vs Bikers vs Hikers vs Horseback riders get into. Then, there's even 4 wheelers vs motorbike.

It's the people like most of us who are "well rounded" in multiple hobbies that seem to have the best understanding of one another.

live2ride
04-02-2006, 09:39 PM
It's probably just the same old turf wars that Jeepers vs Bikers vs Hikers vs Horseback riders get into. Then, there's even 4 wheelers vs motorbike.

It's the people like most of us who are "well rounded" in multiple hobbies that seem to have the best understanding of one another.


So what do you think about Dogs and Bikers/Hikers, they scare the shit out of me when they are not on a leash?

Sombeech
04-02-2006, 09:48 PM
So what do you think about Dogs and Bikers/Hikers, they scare the shit out of me when they are not on a leash?

There are different opinions about leashes. It's good to let the dog run around and get exersize, but I think leashes have their place as well when you are in a public area. I'm not a dog owner, so I don't have much say in it.

Udink
04-02-2006, 10:14 PM
So what do you think about Dogs and Bikers/Hikers, they scare the shit out of me when they are not on a leash?
I had a run-in with a pit bull once. I was 15 years old and walking home from a friend's house, when one walked toward me on the sidewalk and wouldn't let me pass. It growled at me, seemed fairly aggressive, but I was finally able to skirt around it by running out into the street and I didn't stop until I got home.

Ever since, I've been leery of dogs, but I can almost always tell a friendly from an aggressive one. I have no problems with people letting their dog off-leash out on the trail, but I am fully prepared to defend myself if I run into an unfriendly dog out there. That's how I feel about dogs anywhere, not just on the trail, but I do frown upon people who don't follow leash laws and such while they're out with their best friends.

Mtnman1830
04-03-2006, 04:41 AM
never had any problems with mountain bikers. Sometimes get upsest about giving them the right of way, but they do have just as much right on the trail as I do.

Then there is the dog issue

I like dogs. But my hell, pick up after them. Nothing worse than enjoying a hike, taking in the sights and you start to smell something.... ah crap, damn dogs.....

I noticed yesterday that there were a lot of people out with their dogs. There were people with their little "machines" to pick up the prizes their best friends leave in the middle of the trail, but TAKE THEM BACK TO THE TRAILHEAD WITH YOU AND THROW THEM AWAY, DON'T LEAVE THE BAG OF DOGSHIT ON THE TRAIL

stefan
04-03-2006, 06:31 AM
[quote=live2ride]

Honestly, the hikers that feel the way that you described are probably the same people who want to turn everything into wilderness, do away with "mechanized" travel altogether, and do away with eating meat.


First of all there IS something to be said for wilderness. I think the legal concept of wilderness was invented because we as a society know that we are not responsible enough to leave some land alone. With all of our expansive land in the west we take for granted what true "wilderness" is.

i am reminded of a friend of mine who worked for arches/canyonlands (as sar and such) and was talking to a german guy about the wonderfully untouched land of utah, and my friend looked at him, a little unsure. The guy responded, utah is about the size of germany, in germany we have 80 million people, in utah you have 2 million people....:thumb:

a guy i work with is from austria, he also finds it absolutely amazing to be able to drive countless miles and see very little human development. i am not trying to CONVERT you all to be wilderness freaks, my point was there IS something to be said for wilderness, and we as a society will likely only come to appreciate it very far in the future, europe has many years on us, but the population's growing fast. Nice thing about the desert is that it's not immediately inhabitable, but all of those valleys nestled in the wasatch will be developed before we know it.

okay, enough about that....

about bikes, yea, i think there are a lot of people who don't like yielding to the bikes, even though it's supposed to be the other way around. but let's be clear, it's just more convenient to let the bikes by and get on their way. hiking is such a 'quiet' mode of travel also (aside from incessant talking), when bike comes by, espcially on a dry, rocky trail, the noise is noticeable, and the interaction is different. some people are not comfortable when biker is coming to pass by. i wouldn't make the direct analogy with trying to walk and drive a car on the same road, but maybe it's similar to biking on the same road with a car(which i do everyday)....i've gotten used to bikers on trails. as long as bikers don't tear up trails when they are muddy or bike by superfast in disregard, i got no problems with them. However, i don't think it's a horrible idea, in SOME cases, to have some very popular hiking trails closed to bikers either. Also bikers do a fair share of trail maintainance since their impact is fairly strong.

but let's be fair, everyone pushes their side, from guns, to motorized travel, to wilderness, to anti-meat. ALL of these perspectives have merit and have their place. it's just terribly easy to pin the blame on the "other side."

I agree with shaggy, we all need figure out how to get along. However, I don't subscribe to the idea that we as humans should do whatever we like where ever we want either.

Scott P
04-03-2006, 07:48 AM
I am a strong wilderness advocate and I mountain bike too. I've never met anyone whom hated bikers, but assume some are out there.

As long as bikers are responsible, and don't do things like go fast on hiking trails or ride down mud covered slopes, there are few complaints. Some of them do ride fast though, and not always on purpose. Bikes are still way better than ATV's.

What I have met is bikers that hate 4wd vehicles. I have had two confrontations, and was doing nothing wrong on purpose.

One was on the White Rim Road. Some bikers were pissed that 4wd's were using this great "mountain bike trail" and were pretty vocal about it. Even though I was parked and not even moving when I met them, they said that 4wd's stir up too much dust for them.

The other time was at Gemini Bridges. I guess this one was my fault because I didn't think about it. Anyway, I parked my vehicle on Gemini Bridges. It was winter and not many people around. Anyway, I wanted to get a picture of my vehicle on the arch, so I hiked around to the other side of the canyon to get one. I guess I was gone a half an hour or so. Some mountain bikers were pissed that they had to wait too long before getting pictures of them with their mountain bikes on top of the arch (without a vehicle in the picture). This one I understood, but it was an innocent mistake, so they calmed down after a few minutes and when I apologized.

Those are my only two confrontations with mountain bikers while doing any outdoor activities (hiking, 4wd, etc.).

Unleashed dogs; don't get me started on that. If you are on a popular hiking trail, you should leash your dog, even if it is "friendly". Clean up after it too. On Mt. Belford on July 4th last year, my three year old son and I were eating lunch by the trail. A big dog ran up the trail and stole my son's lunch. He was crying and it scared him. The owner came up behind and passed us without saying a word. No, "I'm sorry", or anything. He was lucky I was a nice guy, otherwise I would have thrown the dog off the mountain. During December 24 last year, we had to turn back on our hike, because our 18 month old daughter got dog crap all over her pants. Shame on the owners.

accadacca
04-03-2006, 07:57 AM
...and do away with eating meat.
:lol8: :lol8: :lol8:

I think that hikers can kiss my grits when I am on my bike! :frustrated:




















j/k :haha:

Shan
04-03-2006, 12:18 PM
I like to bike and hike, both with my dog. I tend to go places where it's not so busy with families and strollers. But I am very aware that there are people that dislike dogs, bikers, or hikers. So I just try to be as courteous as I can. My dog is a GREAT trail dog - of course, she's my dog, but I have gotten positive comments from strangers on trails. I keep the leash handy, if it's a non-leash area. She knows OFF so when we let hikers by, she moves off the trail and lets everyone go. She has no prey drive, so wildlife is not a problem. She paces herself, never runs ahead. When yeilding to a horse, we get way off the trail and I hold her collar. I try to get her to run around the yard for a poo before I take her on a ride/walk. But I do not leave her poo or poo bags sitting in the trail either.

With mutli use trails, there's always going to be someone who doesn't like something, but we can all try to be courteous.

Scott P
04-03-2006, 12:54 PM
I tend to go places where it's not so busy with families and strollers.

Just to make sure I didn't misprotray something, the trail I was on is not busy for families and strollers. It was a 14,000 foot mountain in Colorado.

Nice to hear your dog is well behaved, and that you clean up after it(?). :2thumbs: Hoefully it wouldn't jump up on a three year old in the name of being "friendly". :naughty:

Shan
04-03-2006, 01:08 PM
I tend to go places where it's not so busy with families and strollers.

Just to make sure I didn't misprotray something, the trail I was on is not busy for families and strollers. It was a 14,000 foot mountain in Colorado.

Nice to hear your dog is well behaved, and that you clean up after it(?). :2thumbs: Hoefully it wouldn't jump up on a three year old in the name of being "friendly". :naughty:

Don't worry, I was commenting on myself! I didn't even see your post but I will now.

Gina does not jump on humans. I don't think that's appropriate/acceptable behavior. That's what training is for!

Yes, I bike with a doubly wrapped up poo bag in my bike pack (outside pocket).

I don't let my dog approach children either. Not because I don't trust her, because I know others won't like it. That's why we do the OFF [the trail] command, I grab her collar or to a SIT/STAY, and I let kids/people pass.

My dog wouldn't dream of taking food from a person (OK she might dream about it but would never act upon it!). That was rude of that dog owner, and to not even say sorry! That is bad.

I am a good pet owner and I have a well mannered dog that I have put alot of time into training her, but not everyone does what I do I realize that. I try to be a good example. And what bothers me is that I can still get lumped into the stupid dog owner category by the public, because there are so many stupid dog owners out there.



He was lucky I was a nice guy, otherwise I would have thrown the dog off the mountain.

It should have been the owner you were contemplationg throwing off the mountain - not the dog! After all it's the owner who lets the dog know what is acceptable and what is not. They don't know unless a human has taught them.

TreeHugger
04-04-2006, 07:43 AM
I would guess that any hiker that has a problem with mountain biking also has an agenda to push, one that is rooted in strong emotions and has no logical basis.

I dont think this is a fair statement. Just because one doesnt like having their hike interrupted by a mountain biker does not mean they "have an agenda to push", that's ridiculous. Yes, strong emotion, perhaps, but an agenda, I doubt it.

I am an avid mountain biker and hiker. I can see both sides of the debate. There are times I want and appreciate my peace and quiet and solitude on the trail and other times I dont mind "interruptions" - and what I feel like that day will dictate where I will go. I strongly believe that there should be multi-use trails and hiking only trails.

As far as dogs. Ugh. I cant stand being harrassed by dogs on the trail, because I dont like dogs. Yes, it's nice to have responsible owners that train their dogs well, but that seems to be the exception, not the rule. But, I can appreciate dog owners wanting to get out with Fido and enjoy the great outdoors, I have many friends that do this and I advocate for them, just keep your dang dog away from me.

Udink
04-04-2006, 08:09 AM
I would guess that any hiker that has a problem with mountain biking also has an agenda to push, one that is rooted in strong emotions and has no logical basis.

I dont think this is a fair statement. Just because one doesnt like having their hike interrupted by a mountain biker does not mean they "have an agenda to push", that's ridiculous. Yes, strong emotion, perhaps, but an agenda, I doubt it.

I am an avid mountain biker and hiker. I can see both sides of the debate. There are times I want and appreciate my peace and quiet and solitude on the trail and other times I dont mind "interruptions" - and what I feel like that day will dictate where I will go. I strongly believe that there should be multi-use trails and hiking only trails.
My statement is completely fair. Obviously, the original question referred to shared-use trails (otherwise this would be a moot issue). Therefore, if you, as a hiker, are annoyed by an "interruption" from a mountain biker, then your agenda is that the shared-use trail should only be open to hikers. If the only reason you wouldn't want mountain bikers on the trail is because of a selfish desire to be alone, then that is a purely emotional reason, not a logical one.

Please note, I do not intend the use of the word "selfish" to be negative. There's nothing wrong with having selfish desires, but it's another matter to push them onto others.

Edit: I just noticed that I made a big mistake in my reasoning. I did not mean to frame it as "Emotional vs. Logical," since obviously the two are not mutually exclusive. To me, it's really a matter of "Emotional vs. Non-Emotional."

So, something like I don't like to share the trail with mountain bikers because it disturbs my tranquility would be a purely emotional reason, while I don't like to share because they tear up the trail and are a safety hazard for us slow-moving hikers would be less emotional. However, the latter wouldn't quite count for this debate, since I think we're talking about bikers in general, not just those who don't follow the rules.

Shan
04-04-2006, 08:41 AM
I strongly believe that there should be multi-use trails and hiking only trails.

Well wilderness trails are only horses and foot traffic, so that's almost a hiking only trail!

marc olivares
04-04-2006, 09:46 AM
As far as dogs. Ugh. I cant stand being harrassed by dogs on the trail, because I dont like dogs. Yes, it's nice to have responsible owners that train their dogs well, but that seems to be the exception, not the rule. But, I can appreciate dog owners wanting to get out with Fido and enjoy the great outdoors, I have many friends that do this and I advocate for them, just keep your dang dog away from me.

i absolutely agree

i could care less about mtn. bikers but it's the dog owners that consistently piss me off. :frustrated:

i, like scott, have 2 small children and hike regularly, and i'll kick the most friendly of dogs if they get near my children. not a route i would advocate taking, but if they get next to my kids off a leash, (as a parent) you have to expect the worst.
we were gardening in my front yard. my 2 year old was sitting by our front door w/ my wife and i 10-12 feet from her. a runner strolls by w/ dog off leash...and where does it go? yep right toward my kid. after some lovely words were exchanged, i've yet to see them run by my house again, but unfortunately, my little one freaks now when dogs charge her. in the neighborhood, trail etc.... YEP, dogs piss me off not Mtn bikers!

Shan
04-04-2006, 11:25 AM
It seems dog owners and dogs are being hated equally. If someone hates dogs, do they hate just the out of control, untrained, unleashed ones - or just four legged furry friends all together? Because you know a good dog is as good as its owner who trained him/her. I think it should be the owner you're hating/glaring at/whatever, that is unless you just hate dogs every single one of them all together.

So would all you dog haters be pleased if I mountain biked with my dog while ON the leash - because that's what we do around town for our daily "walks." Yes she's that good she can run on a leash by my bike. It's just not the most practical because of the narrowness of the trail. I'm not going to keep my dog at home 24/7 while I go play, however.

What would make you all satisfied enough? (besides not seeing dogs at all) Obviously I want to continue enjoying the outdoors with "my little girl", but I don't want to be getting glared or swore at either.

Scott P
04-04-2006, 12:00 PM
It seems dog owners and dogs are being hated equally. If someone hates dogs, do they hate just the out of control, untrained, unleashed ones - or just four legged furry friends all together? Because you know a good dog is as good as its owner who trained him/her.


What would make you all satisfied enough? (besides not seeing dogs at all) Obviously I want to continue enjoying the outdoors with "my little girl", but I don't want to be getting glared or swore at either.

As long as a dog owner keeps the dog on a leash (or under control) AND cleans up the dog crap, then I don't mind them. Unfortunately, these seem in the minority, but kudos if you do.

Even the most well behaved and trained dog can't clean up their own crap, so this is on the owner. Also, a dog doesn't have to be "out of control" in the eyes of the owner to be out of control. A "friendly welll behaved" dog whom wants to play, can easily scare or knock down a child, or be annoying to adults.

As I said, if your dog is leashed, or completely under control, and the messes are cleaned up, I have no problem with them at all.

Even the most well behaved dogs and owners are inappropriate in some areas. Studies in CO have shown that even the mere scent of a predator can change habits of big horn sheep and even cause them to abandone their trails. This is one reason I consider Steve Allen to be one of the most irresponsible guidebook author in respects to wildlife (though his books have many good points as well). He actually admits and encourages taking a "100 pound German Shepard" along a bighorn sheep trail! :nono:

Shan
04-04-2006, 12:31 PM
What about this scenario - I stop, pull over/move off the trail, leash my dog, wait for everyone to pass, then go on my way (meanwhile picking up after her)? Is that not kosher enough? As long as no one is in sight, she can't be loose then walking by my side? It's not a forest service rule here to have dogs leashed at all times, only at developed areas. So I'm not breaking the law, yet being courteous to other recreators.

Scott P
04-04-2006, 01:31 PM
What about this scenario - I stop, pull over/move off the trail, leash my dog, wait for everyone to pass, then go on my way (meanwhile picking up after her)? Is that not kosher enough? As long as no one is in sight, she can't be loose then walking by my side? It's not a forest service rule here to have dogs leashed at all times, only at developed areas. So I'm not breaking the law, yet being courteous to other recreators.

That sounds much better than most dog owners, and I can't see why anyone would have a problem with it. PS, leash laws are indeed in affect in most Forest Service Wilderness areas, but not outside teh wilderness. Some wilderness areas might not have this rule, however.

Shan
04-04-2006, 01:40 PM
What about this scenario - I stop, pull over/move off the trail, leash my dog, wait for everyone to pass, then go on my way (meanwhile picking up after her)? Is that not kosher enough? As long as no one is in sight, she can't be loose then walking by my side? It's not a forest service rule here to have dogs leashed at all times, only at developed areas. So I'm not breaking the law, yet being courteous to other recreators.

That sounds much better than most dog owners, and I can't see why anyone would have a problem with it. PS, leash laws are indeed in affect in most Forest Service Wilderness areas, but not outside teh wilderness. Some wilderness areas might not have this rule, however.

I don't have a problem with that scenario either. I just called the ranger district in my town and asked on the leash laws. She said only in developed areas (trailheads/campgrounds/etc) do you have to leash your dog, and use common sense obviously - which is what I already heard before and feel what I do currently. Other districts may have other rules (even within the same forest), like you said.

Scott P
04-04-2006, 02:23 PM
Just to show you that I don't hate dogs, here are a few pictures from last years trip up Hahns Peak. We took two dogs. Having a leash was pointless since there were absolutely no people around anyway.

I'm not sure why, but everyone else but one other person bailed before the trip. Many were committed to go, but the worst blizzard of the year hit on the planned date of January 8, 2005. What a bunch of wussies (the drop outs). Anyway, the two dogs helped break trail and we climbed the mountain anyway.

live2ride
04-04-2006, 02:25 PM
Wow, those pics are great, was this an overnight thing or just a one day excursion? Great Pics DOG HATER!!!! J/K!!

Scott P
04-04-2006, 02:37 PM
One long day.

packfish
04-05-2006, 12:51 PM
It's good to see someone who enjoys doing something ask others what bothers them about it. If everyone had this attitude we wouldn't have as many confrontations as we do. I don't mind seeing bikers , except when they pass me, it's means they are going to get to my fishing hole b4 I do .(0: I hike with my dog, she is well trained and doesn't really give someone else a second glance, I really don't think she knows she is a dog. Even though she is extremely well trained ( mostly by herself) I still pull out the leash when someone comes down the trail, mostly for my peace of mind and I do bury her crap .

live2ride
04-05-2006, 02:58 PM
Looks like people have major issues with dog owners not cleaning the poop up, so everyone must feel the same in regards to horses? Nothing worse than riding/walking on a trail and looking around not particulary eyeballing the trail trail when suddenly you get horse crap all over? I like horses but there is nothing more that ticks me off than a trail littered with horse poop. Also, it seems that some horse owners (I am not saying everyone, and I know this applies to Bikers/hikers as well) seems to use the trails when they are still muddy and wet which I believe causes more trail damage than biking/hiking. What are your thoughts on this?

Shan
04-05-2006, 04:03 PM
Good point! Where are all the ranters and ravers about horse crap? At least my dog goes off trail (she likes privacy) and I have to go follow her.

rock_ski_cowboy
04-05-2006, 04:52 PM
Looks like people have major issues with dog owners not cleaning the poop up, so everyone must feel the same in regards to horses? Nothing worse than riding/walking on a trail and looking around not particulary eyeballing the trail trail when suddenly you get horse crap all over? I like horses but there is nothing more that ticks me off than a trail littered with horse poop. Also, it seems that some horse owners (I am not saying everyone, and I know this applies to Bikers/hikers as well) seems to use the trails when they are still muddy and wet which I believe causes more trail damage than biking/hiking. What are your thoughts on this?

Hiker. 4x4 owner. Horse owner. Wilderness advocate. Yeah, I know I'm wack. We rarely ride the horses in areas that aren't already all "cowed up" (which i've recently come to learn means f***ed up in SUWA terms) by our own cows, but we do take them to the Uintahs about once every two years to get far enough in that we don't see hardly any hikers or backpackers and pack enough gear that life is still quite comfortable, which i enjoy. Kind of a family tradition, great grandfather ran 10,000 sheep in the Uintahs back in the day.

First of all, I realize a lot of hikers and bikers hate horses. Sorry. Can't do much for you, try and quell your rage, because no one will hear your rant (especially on the internet!) and no matter how hard you think you are, ranchers and farmers are harder. I realize that crap in any form is unpleasant, although horse crap is one of the least unpleasant forms of crap in the world as it is visibly still just mulched grass, fairly solid, dries to dust quickly, and rarely smells. Unless strictly mandated to do so, horse users will likely not stop and scoop their horses crap up because it is a pain in the arse to get off your horse, and stopping a string of horses and pack horses in the middle of the trail every time one of them decides to lift their tail creates safety hazards if any of the horses are nervous or skittish. Complain away, but its a moot point. Once again, I feel for y'all, and can offer you nothing more than a "quit being a wimp" and a "sorry, once again, I know that horses make the world a worse place for you" (oh but they are the most beautiful and useful animals in all God's creation!).

While I must say that as a hiker, bikers don't bug me; as a horseman they really bug me if they don't stop and get off their bikes for horses. Its not a matter who has the right of way, its a matter of, if you don't stop for horses you could get someone seriously hurt or killed. I've seen some of the most well-broke horses go nuts when they see bikes. My mom was semi-seriously hurt (major bruising and torn muscles) because of such an incident. They obviously weren't trying to be malicious and it was the damn mule's fault for sure. It was actually on a dirt road and not even on a trail, so getting off the bikes would seem pointless. Out side of a select group of dude-ranch worn-down plug horses, most high-spirited horses will go nuts if a biker rides past them. To them, everything unfamiliar is an enemy monster, and bikes seem to be monstrous as hell for some reason.

I never see horses on popular hiking or biking trails. Sometimes i see hikers and bikers on popular horse trails :haha:

live2ride
04-05-2006, 05:24 PM
While I must say that as a hiker, bikers don't bug me; as a horseman they really bug me if they don't stop and get off their bikes for horses. Its not a matter who has the right of way, its a matter of, if you don't stop for horses you could get someone seriously hurt or killed. I've seen some of the most well-broke horses go nuts when they see bikes. My mom was semi-seriously hurt (major bruising and torn muscles) because of such an incident. They obviously weren't trying to be malicious and it was the damn mule's fault for sure. It was actually on a dirt road and not even on a trail, so getting off the bikes would seem pointless. Out side of a select group of dude-ranch worn-down plug horses, most high-spirited horses will go nuts if a biker rides past them. To them, everything unfamiliar is an enemy monster, and bikes seem to be monstrous as hell for some reason.

I hear ya, I agree with you that bikers need to give the right away, I have ridden Antelope Island a few times this year and every time I am out there it seems that the horsemen? horse riders are very good and when I attempt to stop they have pulled off the trail and wave me through, I am sure I would have recieved a different response if I made no effort to stop and let them pass, it made me change my mind about horses this year, (and I also occasionaly ride horses) Given that, as long as everyone follows the "outdoor rules" everything should go well and everyone should get along. :nod:

devNull
04-05-2006, 09:12 PM
Well, it looks like I missed most of the fun. I guess I will add my two cents now that most of it has been hashed out. I do a bit of trail running and hiking with my child in the foothills which is where most of my experiences w/ mountain bikers and dogs have occurred. I don't think that I have ever been terribly upset with a mountain biker. Some aren't as courteous as others, but generally they don't cause me many problems.

Dogs are the polar opposite. I rarely find a dog owner that doesn't make me mad. The number of poop baggies along the trail is amazing. Is the side of the trail a garbage can? I am sorry, but I think that if you have a dog you should pack its poop along with you. You will sometimes forget a bag you left and it is also a gigantic eyesore. Nothing upsets me more than coming around the corner of a trail and seeing a dog and no owner...regardless of whether I am out running or hiking with my 3 year old (who is not surprisingly terrified of dogs). I have no idea whether the dog I see is friendly or not. I know, I know EVERY dog on the trail is ALWAYS friendly. That is why dogs NEVER bite people. I have just started kicking the ownerless dogs as I go by for good measure. Most of these trails are leash only trails and maybe 1 in 25 dogs is on a leash. Something needs to be done. I don't mind if the owner is close and reaches down to grab the collar of the dog. It at least makes me feel like the owner is aware of the potential problem and cares about others safety. That is perfectly acceptable. Just don't let the dog run free or get out of your reach on heavily populated trails.

Horse poop rarely stinks? Really? It must be their urine then. I don't hike many trails used by horses, but...there is one that I sometimes use in the Uintas that is multiuse with horses and it certainly does have a distinct stench. I was in Zion last weekend and as we went up toward the trail to the Emerald Pools there is a trail that the horses use close by. It stunk like horses. Horses certainly do add a stench to the trail. No ifs ands or buts about it. That said I don't really mind them too much. They are a convenient mode of transportation on the trails and somehow seem like they belong there.

rock_ski_cowboy
04-06-2006, 09:34 AM
Horse poop rarely stinks? Really? It must be their urine then. I don't hike many trails used by horses, but...there is one that I sometimes use in the Uintas that is multiuse with horses and it certainly does have a distinct stench. I was in Zion last weekend and as we went up toward the trail to the Emerald Pools there is a trail that the horses use close by. It stunk like horses. Horses certainly do add a stench to the trail. No ifs ands or buts about it. That said I don't really mind them too much.

OK I have to admit I'm a little biased, having grown up with the s***... I really don't smell it anymore. (on a related note, when ever we drive past cattle and get a wiff, my dad rolls down the window and says "MMM, smells like money"...) Any animal is going to stink and crap, seems to me that horses' stink and crap is a little less offensive than most... MHO, YMMV, YOIJAVAMI


They are a convenient mode of transportation on the trails and somehow seem like they belong there.
Maybe because a large portion of the popular trails out there were made by and for them? :ne_nau:

Udink
04-06-2006, 09:40 AM
MHO, YMMV, YOIJAVAMI
That last one is a new one to me--no matches when searching Google and AcronymFinder.com. What's it mean?

live2ride
04-06-2006, 10:40 AM
MHO, YMMV, YOIJAVAMI
That last one is a new one to me--no matches when searching Google and AcronymFinder.com. What's it mean?



It must be horse talk, or Brokeback mountain talk??? j/k I couldn't resist. :roflol:

rock_ski_cowboy
04-06-2006, 12:26 PM
YOIJAVAMI


Your Opinion Is Just As Valid As Mine Is

live2ride
04-06-2006, 03:16 PM
YOIJAVAMI


Your Opinion Is Just As Valid As Mine Is


Makes sense

accadacca
04-06-2006, 06:21 PM
YOIJAVAMI


Your Opinion Is Just As Valid As Mine Is
Too sophisticated for me... :lol8: