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Iceaxe
03-04-2006, 09:43 PM
Anyone interested in a little history on the Zion Heavy hitters? Anyone interested in who placed the first bolts? Or who had the skill and courage to put in some of the most famous canyoneering routes in North America?

Mike Bogart, Dennis Turville and Mary Dern have the first documented descent of Imlay. They called it Trolls Treat. They did the canyon in 28 rappels and placed 13 bolts sttarting from Patato Hollow. June 7, 1978.

Mike Bogart, Dennis Turville, Mary Dern and Jan Hansen. Have the first documented descent of the technical section of Kolob. September 1978.

Mike Bogart, Dennis Turville have the first documented descent of Heaps. The waterfall exit is exactly 440' high and I know this because the first documented descent followed the watercourse and not the now standard "bird perch" route. September 23, 24, 25 1981

And at the time, canyoneering was referred to as "Gorging" to Mike Bogart, Dennis Turville, Mary Dern and Jan Hansen.... as in descending a deep gorge.

:popcorn:

rockgremlin
03-05-2006, 11:33 AM
Are they still alive? Still active in the sport?

shaggy125
03-05-2006, 01:48 PM
Very interesting stuff. For those interested I found the story off of Tom's site that tells of the Devils Pit. The story is taken from Zion's black book and was written by Royce Trapier, his partner was Norman Harding. They claim in the story that this was the first successful descent ever made of the bottom of the canyon. Did Mike Bogart and Dennis Turville possibly skip part of the canyon? Or were these guys just not aware that they had done the canyon the year before? They mention that they added a bolt to the two existing at the Birds Perch (there are 4 bolts there today) so obviously someone had at least done the rappel before.

Anyway, for anyone who hasn't read the story already it's pretty interesting. Just a note, they are descending the canyon via what we now refer to as the Gunsight Entrance or North Fork of Heaps. There is less water and serious stuff before the crossroads when doing it from here rather than from Phantom Valley, which is the standard way of doing it today.

http://canyoneeringusa.com/history/heaps82.htm

More interesting history about Zion Canyoneering.

http://canyoneeringusa.com/history/index.htm

Eric.

Iceaxe
03-05-2006, 08:24 PM
Dennis Turville is now a professional photographer. He has posters and photgraphs hanging in the new Zion Visitor's Center. He lives in Toquerville last I heard. I know a couple of fellas from Utah did Kolob with him a while back. Dennis and Steve Allen were the "experts" called in to testify for the NPS when the scouts got whacked in Kolob. (Lloyd Bush who was teaching a canyoneering class at the U of U at the time was the "expert" for the families).

Mike Bogart lives in SLC and retired from canyoneering in the late 80's.

The others mentioned were friends and I don't have any info on them.

Yeah, I never understood Royce's first descent claim of Heaps which is what lead me to do a little more investigating. The first group did the entire canyon. Heck, his own TR mentions existing bolts for most the canyon, including the finish. Also.... by strict definition Royce never completed the entire route because he climbed out at the "Devil Pit" and entered further downstream.

I'm not here to argue first descents.... just posting dates I know are fact.



.

rockgremlin
03-06-2006, 10:56 AM
How do you "retire" from canyoneering? I assume he enjoyed it?

Sounds kinda weird to retire from a recreational activity that you enjoy.

Iceaxe
03-06-2006, 12:04 PM
How do you "retire" from canyoneering? I assume he enjoyed it?

I think its something you will understand better when you get older.... but....

You get married, have a family, pursue other interests, don't do canyons anymore.....

I've corresponded a little with Mike and he is a nice enough guy but he doesn't seem to have any interest in canyoneering anymore.

Dennis and Mike also did some of the first documented descents in Escalante. I'll see what else I can dig up and share with you guys.


.

Iceaxe
01-30-2007, 03:26 PM
Here are a few more details I know..... Turville and Bogart did a full Right Fork of the Great West in Zion in 1977. It was not a first descent as beta was given to them. I have no clue who gave them the beta or when it was first descended completely.

What we now call the Imlay Crossroads was referred to as "Quadruple Junction" by the pioneers.

I wish more of the history of the canyoneering pioneers was available. It's a shame that most of it is disappearing with time. Heaps was near the end of Bogart's career. He did only four more first descents after completing Heaps.

j_trapier_w
01-27-2009, 06:14 PM
I believe that my Grandpa Trapier was the first to successfully complete a descent through Heaps.

ratagonia
01-27-2009, 06:23 PM
Here are a few more details I know..... Turville and Bogart did a full Right Fork of the Great West in Zion in 1977. It was not a first descent as beta was given to them. I have no clue who gave them the beta or when it was first descended completely.


You're just not trying hard enough, Shane. :haha:

June 26 - July 2, 1966. Victor Schmidt and party. They did, however, avoid the 'direct' section, establishing the 'silver staircase' work around.

http://canyoneeringusa.com/history/right66a.htm

Placed in the Black Book, so there is a good chance Turville and Bogart got it from the Park.

Tom

ratagonia
01-27-2009, 06:30 PM
I believe that my Grandpa Trapier was the first to successfully complete a descent through Heaps.

Welcome to the group, "J".

I admire the work of Royce, and sometimes feel like I am tracking his adventures, finding those bolt hangers marked "RT" in various obscure corners of Zion.

I think Royce claimed the first "complete descent on the canyon floor", as the previous descent by Turville and Bogart had shuffled along a ledge for 50 feet. My impression is Turville and Trapier were rivals, and none too friendly. Hard to say which first descent "counts" the most, but as much as I have a distant affection for Royce, I think I lean towards Turville on this one.

ps, if there is presentable historic material available, I and we would be delighted to see it. Contact Shane = Ice if you live up north, or me if you live down south (me = CanyoneeringUSA at gmail dot com).

Tom :moses:

Bo_Beck
01-27-2009, 06:39 PM
You're just not trying hard enough, Shane. :haha:

June 26 - July 2, 1966. Victor Schmidt and party. They did, however, avoid the 'direct' section, establishing the 'silver staircase' work around.

http://canyoneeringusa.com/history/right66a.htm

Placed in the Black Book, so there is a good chance Turville and Bogart got it from the Park.

Tom

Really Cool! Thanks Tom for the great research!

Don
01-27-2009, 06:45 PM
My impression is Turville and Trapier were rivals, and none too friendly.
Tom :moses:

:roflol: Sounds familiar somehow. :haha: :popcorn:


Keep it coming guys. I love this stuff!

Bo_Beck
01-27-2009, 06:46 PM
I believe that my Grandpa Trapier was the first to successfully complete a descent through Heaps.

Welcome to the group, "J".

I admire the work of Royce, and sometimes feel like I am tracking his adventures, finding those bolt hangers marked "RT" in various obscure corners of Zion.

I think Royce claimed the first "complete descent on the canyon floor", as the previous descent by Turville and Bogart had shuffled along a ledge for 50 feet. My impression is Turville and Trapier were rivals, and none too friendly. Hard to say which first descent "counts" the most, but as much as I have a distant affection for Royce, I think I lean towards Turville on this one.

ps, if there is presentable historic material available, I and we would be delighted to see it. Contact Shane = Ice if you live up north, or me if you live down south (me = CanyoneeringUSA at gmail dot com).

Tom :moses:

My understanding is that Royce had an unsuccessful first attempt in Heaps and was eventually rescued, and having to leave gear behind hesitantly. With desire to retrieve gear and complete what he had started, made another sucessful attempt soon after. (I have a friend that was on the rescue of Royce on his first attempt). Royces account of Heaps was my reason for my first trip and many successive trips. He had good taste for the great canyons of Zion!

oldno7
01-27-2009, 07:47 PM
Tom
The trip through Great West had many references to photo's, is there any record of those photo's?

ratagonia
01-27-2009, 08:16 PM
Tom
The trip through Great West had many references to photo's, is there any record of those photo's?

Those photos were not in the Black Book when I got to it. They might be at the museum - I'll try to remember to ask if I am there this week. Yes, might be interesting to see them.

Tom

j_trapier_w
01-28-2009, 07:40 AM
Again, I am Royce Trapiers grandson. While I do know quite a bit about him, there is still some that is mystery to me. I only met him a few times before his death in the late 90's, but I have had a small obsession about the things that he did in his lifetime. At 16 years old, I was months shy of traveling out to Springdale, UT to climb with him when he died. Among climbing, which was his life's passion, he was an amazing architect and built some of the most beautiful houses I've ever seen in my life. I would ask, if anyone has any more info on Royce, that you could get it to me. Royce kept most of his life private, even from his own family. My aunt Tami, Royce's closest daughter, doesn't even have some of the info on him that I've been able to find over the years. She does however, have all of his old climbing gear, pictures, diaries and such from over the years. If anyone has anything, it would be greatly appreciated!!!

j_trapier_w
01-28-2009, 07:47 AM
I believe that my Grandpa Trapier was the first to successfully complete a descent through Heaps.

Welcome to the group, "J".

I admire the work of Royce, and sometimes feel like I am tracking his adventures, finding those bolt hangers marked "RT" in various obscure corners of Zion.

I think Royce claimed the first "complete descent on the canyon floor", as the previous descent by Turville and Bogart had shuffled along a ledge for 50 feet. My impression is Turville and Trapier were rivals, and none too friendly. Hard to say which first descent "counts" the most, but as much as I have a distant affection for Royce, I think I lean towards Turville on this one.

ps, if there is presentable historic material available, I and we would be delighted to see it. Contact Shane = Ice if you live up north, or me if you live down south (me = CanyoneeringUSA at gmail dot com).

Tom :moses:

My understanding is that Royce had an unsuccessful first attempt in Heaps and was eventually rescued, and having to leave gear behind hesitantly. With desire to retrieve gear and complete what he had started, made another sucessful attempt soon after. (I have a friend that was on the rescue of Royce on his first attempt). Royces account of Heaps was my reason for my first trip and many successive trips. He had good taste for the great canyons of Zion!

Royce did make an unsuccessful first attempt and returned to make a successful attempt. I have actually seen the pictures of his final descent out of the canyon. They are amazing pictures!!!

Don
01-28-2009, 07:50 AM
Again, I am Royce Trapiers grandson. While I do know quite a bit about him, there is still some that is mystery to me. I only met him a few times before his death in the late 90's, but I have had a small obsession about the things that he did in his lifetime. At 16 years old, I was months shy of traveling out to Springdale, UT to climb with him when he died. Among climbing, which was his life's passion, he was an amazing architect and built some of the most beautiful houses I've ever seen in my life. I would ask, if anyone has any more info on Royce, that you could get it to me. Royce kept most of his life private, even from his own family. My aunt Tami, Royce's closest daughter, doesn't even have some of the info on him that I've been able to find over the years. She does however, have all of his old climbing gear, pictures, diaries and such from over the years. If anyone has anything, it would be greatly appreciated!!!

I'm a history major in school right now and a fan of Utah history in particular, while this isn't very old history we're talking about it is still the exploration of previously unexplored areas and I find that pretty amazing, of course I find it even more so because I enjoy canyoneering too.
I would love to see any old photos, especially if any exist of these early explorers actually in canyons or climbing.
Trapier, while I would be interested in seeing your grandpa's old climbing gear, just out of curiosity, you should really look into the pictures and journals. I imagine amazing stories of first descents and maybe some treasure of a photo that should be displayed at the visitors center at Zion...

Don
01-28-2009, 07:51 AM
Royce did make an unsuccessful first attempt and returned to make a successful attempt. I have actually seen the pictures of his final descent out of the canyon. They are amazing pictures!!!

Any chance you could scan and post? I would love to see these!

stefan
01-28-2009, 08:09 AM
If anyone has anything, it would be greatly appreciated!!!


here's your grandfather's report in the zion black book, courtesy of tom jones

http://canyoneeringusa.com/history/heaps82.htm



here is some history/information provided by dennis turville regarding his descent of heaps (with mike bogart) and your grandfather's descent (second entry on the page)

http://www.math.utah.edu/~sfolias/canyontales/tale/?i=turville



oh ... and welcome to bogley :gents:

Iceaxe
01-28-2009, 08:43 AM
A few things I found interesting......

When I originally corresponded with Mike Bogart back in 2006 he told me that during his first Heaps descent, on September 23, 24, 25 1981, with Dennis Turville, that they rappelled the watercourse and not the bird perch. His exact quote was

j_trapier_w
01-28-2009, 10:59 AM
Royce did make an unsuccessful first attempt and returned to make a successful attempt. I have actually seen the pictures of his final descent out of the canyon. They are amazing pictures!!!

Any chance you could scan and post? I would love to see these!

Sure, I am in the process of getting them from either my Grandma or my Aunt Val, who was Norman Hardings wife.

j_trapier_w
01-28-2009, 11:06 AM
If anyone has anything, it would be greatly appreciated!!!


here's your grandfather's report in the zion black book, courtesy of tom jones

http://canyoneeringusa.com/history/heaps82.htm



here is some history/information provided by dennis turville regarding his descent of heaps (with mike bogart) and your grandfather's descent (second entry on the page)

http://www.math.utah.edu/~sfolias/canyontales/tale/?i=turville



oh ... and welcome to bogley :gents:

Hey, thanks. These are all great things. I love hearing the stories about my grandpa. He did a lot of climbing out in Hawaii too. I've seen a lot of the pictures and you could tell he had good taste in scenery. Zions was his home though. He loved Springdale so much, he built a lot of houses there. If you ever know of anybody that spoke with him, or climbed with him, please let me know.

Iceaxe
01-28-2009, 11:14 AM
She does however, have all of his old climbing gear, pictures, diaries and such from over the years.

Your grandpa's old pictures and diaries could be a gold mine of information on the early years of canyoneering. Anything you want to contribute is extremely welcome.

And welcome to the group....

:2thumbs:

m_e_wade
01-28-2009, 11:22 AM
Thought I'd add the definitive comment. I'm "J"s dad, Royce's son-in-law and I also did some rappelling in Zion with Royce, though not Heap's.

Dennis Turville, has a log at:

http://www.math.utah.edu/~sfolias/canyontales/tale/?i=turville

where he lays claim to creating the route, but gives credit to Royce and Norm for the first complete decent:

October 15

Sombeech
01-28-2009, 12:37 PM
Hey, welcome to bogley you guys. :mrgreen:

ratagonia
01-28-2009, 01:02 PM
Zions was his home though. He loved Springdale so much, he built a lot of houses there. If you ever know of anybody that spoke with him, or climbed with him, please let me know.

Lin speaks fondly of Royce - not sure how much they actually did together. His contact info:

lin alder
435.632.8433
lin@alderphoto.com
140 Juniper Lane
p.o. box 69
Springdale, Utah 84767

ratagonia
01-17-2011, 12:33 PM
Bump - for Jenny!

Iceaxe
03-24-2014, 03:43 PM
Bump!

I bumped this thread because of the recent interest in to movie Gorging. The thread has some interesting history in it for those that enjoy that type of stuff.

hank moon
03-25-2014, 11:55 AM
Personally I would not consider Gunsight a complete Heaps. I think that honor goes to a Phantom Valley entrance. But that's just my opinion. And I might just be splitting hairs.

Combined with the watercourse exit, right? :)

ratagonia
03-25-2014, 01:33 PM
Here's Trappier's trip report: a fun read even now...

http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/history/heaps82.htm

Tom

Bootboy
03-25-2014, 11:05 PM
Even by his own admission, he and Harding skipped sections. I thought his claim to the first descent lay in his assertion that they did the "whole" thing first. Turville and Bogart concocted the final rap sequence. In my mind, the FD goes to Turville and Bogart.

Harrowing tales none-the-less.
I love hearing these old stories. They remind me of the stories my dad used to tell me about new routes in the Wasatch and unbeta'ed climbs in the Tetons that he and his friend did in the early 80's. I remember seeing all my dad's filthy climbing gear in our house when I was barely old enough to remember. If we had lived in Southern Utah, I like to imagine that my dad would have been in the company of these legends, a true adventurer. I love the nostalgia.

Iceaxe
03-26-2014, 04:16 AM
Turville and Bogart concocted the final rap sequence. In my mind, the FD goes to Turville and Bogart.

FWIW- according to my conversations with Bogart they did not pioneer the current bird perch exit sequence everyone uses today, but instead they rappeled the true watercress in one continues 450' exit rappel. I don't know who established the bird perch exit.



Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

canyoncaver
03-27-2014, 07:11 AM
I work with an older gentleman who claims to have done the first descent of Kolob in 1967.

Has anyone else ever heard of a group that claims to have done this 11 years before Turville?

This guy is in his late 70s - early 80s and still does quite a bit of backpacking, though his canyon days are behind him. I don't have any reason to think this guy is lying and have never heard him boast of anything else.

In your minds, what would he need to produce in order to "document" his first descent and re-write the canyoneering history book?

Bo_Beck
03-27-2014, 07:37 AM
Here's Trappier's trip report: a fun read even now...

http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/history/heaps82.htm

Tom

His "unsuccessful attempt", written up and tucked in the pages of the "Black Binder" is what stimulated my first descent of Heaps in '94'?. I also spent the night at the "Crossroads". Subsequent trips through have been very enjoyable ranging from 3 days down to a 9Hr. trip. Still one of the most "Classic" routes in Zion me-thinks?

Bootboy
03-27-2014, 07:58 AM
His "unsuccessful attempt", written up and tucked in the pages of the "Black Binder" is what stimulated my first descent of Heaps in '94'?. I also spent the night at the "Crossroads". Subsequent trips through have been very enjoyable ranging from 3 days down to a 9Hr. trip. Still one of the most "Classic" routes in Zion me-thinks?

Most definitely a great route.

9 hrs? Holy crap! We did it in 15 and were flyin.

Brian in SLC
03-27-2014, 08:50 AM
Most definitely a great route.
9 hrs? Holy crap! We did it in 15 and were flyin.

I recall Jared Campbell thinkin' if folks got serious about it (ie, him...ha ha), it'd go sub 5. He and crew have done it in around 7 hours and did it in 7:38 AFTER a full Imlay descent (with both canyons total time under 15 hours).

I know the Zion local guys routinely do it in 8-9 hours. I've never done it in a day. That might be fun...hmmm...

Iceaxe
03-27-2014, 09:14 AM
In your minds, what would he need to produce in order to "document" his first descent and re-write the canyoneering history book?

I would say the first step would be to post his personal account where it is accessible to those interested. Pictures would help but not exactly required. It's never too late to write a trip report :-)

When it comes to "firsts" there is always going to be controversy, but it's good to have all available information to allow others to form there own opinion.

And I would not do this project with the thought of re-writing the history books. I would approach it as here is some additional information that has recently come to light. I would just state this is what we did, how we did it and when we did it.

On a side note I read the book "True North" which details the controversy over who was the first man to actually reach the north pole. It's a really good read for anyone interested.

stefan
03-27-2014, 09:40 AM
FWIW- according to my conversations with Bogart they did not pioneer the current bird perch exit sequence everyone uses today, but instead they rappeled the true watercress in one continues 450' exit rappel. I don't know who established the bird perch exit.


FWIW this is not what Bogart's detailed notes say regarding their first descent..

MrAdam
03-27-2014, 10:19 AM
How has no one mentioned that these guys may have "fiddlesticked" the last drop in Heaps??? See below......

We had developed a system whereby we could tie our 150 ft. and 165 ft. eleven mill ropes together and retrieve them by pulling a release with a parachute cord of the same length. Norman went off first with everything in place plus the tail of the rope was tied onto the slings as a safety feature. If it worked, without showing any sign of premature release, I would untie the safety side and follow. At 150 feet, he had to set etrias and pass the knot. This was not a problem. However, the parachute cord became badly tangled with the rappel rope from 150 feet down. He had to stand in his etrias in soft-soled shoes and work the two ropes apart. This took almost an hour, and he was exhausted upon reaching the ground. During this time, I had been studying our release mechanism. It seemed to be solid, however, the idea of it was somewhat intimidating for sure. Once Norm was down, and before I untied the safety side, he pulled on the cord, and the release part of the system seemed to function satisfactorily. After the first 10 feet, I was over the edge and never thought again about it.

ratagonia
03-27-2014, 11:06 AM
I work with an older gentleman who claims to have done the first descent of Kolob in 1967.

Has anyone else ever heard of a group that claims to have done this 11 years before Turville?

This guy is in his late 70s - early 80s and still does quite a bit of backpacking, though his canyon days are behind him. I don't have any reason to think this guy is lying and have never heard him boast of anything else.

In your minds, what would he need to produce in order to "document" his first descent and re-write the canyoneering history book?

The route down the MIA into Kolob was considered THE Kolob route for many years.

Pictures and a written account of the story would be highly appreciated, along with any other stories from the era. What other canyons had he done Back In The Day?

Tom

ratagonia
03-27-2014, 11:08 AM
How has no one mentioned that these guys may have "fiddlesticked" the last drop in Heaps??? See below......

We had developed a system whereby we could tie our 150 ft. and 165 ft. eleven mill ropes together and retrieve them by pulling a release with a parachute cord of the same length. Norman went off first with everything in place plus the tail of the rope was tied onto the slings as a safety feature. If it worked, without showing any sign of premature release, I would untie the safety side and follow. At 150 feet, he had to set etrias and pass the knot. This was not a problem. However, the parachute cord became badly tangled with the rappel rope from 150 feet down. He had to stand in his etrias in soft-soled shoes and work the two ropes apart. This took almost an hour, and he was exhausted upon reaching the ground. During this time, I had been studying our release mechanism. It seemed to be solid, however, the idea of it was somewhat intimidating for sure. Once Norm was down, and before I untied the safety side, he pulled on the cord, and the release part of the system seemed to function satisfactorily. After the first 10 feet, I was over the edge and never thought again about it.

Fifi hook.

http://blackdiamondequipment.com/en/big-wall-climbing/fifi-hook-BD6200650000ALL1.html#start=25&sz=24

Kinda funny, seeing it still in the line after all these years.

Tom

ratagonia
03-27-2014, 11:34 AM
I recall Jared Campbell thinkin' if folks got serious about it (ie, him...ha ha), it'd go sub 5. He and crew have done it in around 7 hours and did it in 7:38 AFTER a full Imlay descent (with both canyons total time under 15 hours).

I know the Zion local guys routinely do it in 8-9 hours. I've never done it in a day. That might be fun...hmmm...

If an old fart like me can do it in 9 hrs 22 mins - though, saving some juice for the afternoon's canyon - then BDC should do OK. Might have to rappel single strand at least once in there...

http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/rave/imlay-canyon-heaps-canyon-24-hour/

Tom

ratagonia
03-27-2014, 11:35 AM
His "unsuccessful attempt", written up and tucked in the pages of the "Black Binder" is what stimulated my first descent of Heaps in '94'?. I also spent the night at the "Crossroads". Subsequent trips through have been very enjoyable ranging from 3 days down to a 9Hr. trip. Still one of the most "Classic" routes in Zion me-thinks?

Dagnabit! Would love to see the "unsuccessful attempt" report. Removed from the BB before I got onto it!

Tom

Iceaxe
03-27-2014, 11:38 AM
FWIW this is not what Bogart's detailed notes say regarding their first descent..

I've never seen his notes. What I wrote is what Bogart told me in person in 2006.


Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

Brian in SLC
03-27-2014, 12:16 PM
I work with an older gentleman who claims to have done the first descent of Kolob in 1967.
Has anyone else ever heard of a group that claims to have done this 11 years before Turville?

MIA trail had been published for years in the old Brereton and Dunaway book, Exploring the Backcountry of Zion National Park. My guess is they hiked in and went down Kolob from there, not down from the head of the canyon. Not a small accomplishment, no doubt, but, possibly done well before them as there isn't much need for a rope. Folks had been crawlin' around the Zion backcountry for quite some time (as the old ruins in Parunaweap might attest).

Tom, I don't think the "release system" they used to drop their ropes in Heaps was a fifi hook...?

From the "In Search of the Devil's Pit" TR:

We took out the parachute cord. Which took some tine untangling, and lowered both packs to the ground, keeping the cord tight so It would not get tangled with the rope. The three bolts we found in the wall were solid and we felt secure with the addition of another sling. I tied the parachute cord to the rope through a rope locking device that should cone down when we retrieve the rope. I ran the rope through six break bars, and lowered it out over the edge from the other end to keep it from tangling, and stepped out over the edge. It went free immediately, and was a pleasant trip down. I touched the ground on the talus slope about 40 feet from the pool. Lori rappelled down immediately after. The rope was retrieved with the parachute cord, and as planned, the rope locking device also fell to the ground.

I talked to Lori who was on that trip, and, dimly recall they used the same as the original party...some device that clamped onto the rope that could be released by a tug (from 300 friggin' feet away!) with a light parachute cord.

Wild stuff!

Brian in SLC
03-27-2014, 12:28 PM
Google is my friend!

Check out this "rope clamp":

72460

The patent date is 1912!

Neat lookin' rig. Parachute cord on that hook, which, when pulled down, releases the pin that the rope is clamped by. Simple. Could this be the rig they used (or similar)?

hank moon
03-27-2014, 12:33 PM
I talked to Lori who was on that trip, and, dimly recall they used the same as the original party...some device that clamped onto the rope that could be released by a tug (from 300 friggin' feet away!) with a light parachute cord.

Wild stuff!

A Decrocheur?

http://storrick.cnc.net/VerticalDevicesPage/Misc/MostMiscPages/MostMisc0640.html

Could have been a Petzl Shunt (developed in 1972). Older catalogs depicted its use as a decrocheur.

ratagonia
03-27-2014, 12:56 PM
MIA trail had been published for years in the old Brereton and Dunaway book, Exploring the Backcountry of Zion National Park.

Brereton and Dunaway was first published in 1979. The claim above is for 1967.

Tom

Brian in SLC
03-27-2014, 01:30 PM
Brereton and Dunaway was first published in 1979. The claim above is for 1967.

Tom

Yeah...got that. My point is that the MIA was a known route into Kolob pre upper canyon descent. And..there's a big difference in comparison of one to the other in a technical sense.

ratagonia
03-27-2014, 01:37 PM
Yeah...got that. My point is that the MIA was a known route into Kolob pre upper canyon descent. And..there's a big difference in comparison of one to the other in a technical sense.

Ah, I see.

Your point was that they probably went down MIA and did not find any evidence of previous travel, and perhaps thought they had done a FIRST. But, the route does not require leaving evidence, so...

As a contemporaneous example, the Right Fork of North Creek first done in 1965 - 1966.

http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/history/right65.htm

Tom

canyoncaver
03-27-2014, 04:43 PM
The man is not around right now, but he'll be back here in about a month. I'll ask him a lot more detailed questions and see if he has or will write a report.

I wondered if maybe they went in at MIA, but that's not the way he told the tale...

As far as the history books go, lighten up Shane. I wrote that in fun. However, you have to agree that if his claim is real, it would definitely change the way early Kolob canyoneering history is viewed.

Iceaxe
03-27-2014, 06:44 PM
As far as the history books go, lighten up Shane. I wrote that in fun. However, you have to agree that if his claim is real, it would definitely change the way early Kolob canyoneering history is viewed.

Lighten up???

You asked for advise and I gave you some. I promise not to make that mistake again. I don't have a dog in this fight. I honestly don't give a shit about first claimed descents because they seldom are. But I do enjoy reading historical trip reports.


Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

ratagonia
03-28-2014, 06:33 AM
The man is not around right now, but he'll be back here in about a month. I'll ask him a lot more detailed questions and see if he has or will write a report.

I wondered if maybe they went in at MIA, but that's not the way he told the tale...

As far as the history books go, lighten up Shane. I wrote that in fun. However, you have to agree that if his claim is real, it would definitely change the way early Kolob canyoneering history is viewed.

a footnote, perhaps, if the story has some truthiness to it.

Tom