Who is responsible for you?

[RedMan]

Today I was informed of an incident that really bothered me in many ways.

The short version of a long story is that a group of ATV riders were out for the day when one of them was injured. The injury was fairly severe and so the group needed to get their friend to a hospital ASAP. One thing led to another and the group managed to get lost resulting in the trip to the hospital taking longer than it should have taken.

Long after all of this happened one of the individuals on this ill fated ride decided to place blame for their problems on the trail system and the managers thereof, making accusations that the maps of the area were poor and the signage was poor that their friend was in worse shape because of those things.

Before I go further I want to say that I am very sorry that this person was injured and that the effort to get them to safety went badly.

The trail system where this happened is known far and wide as a very well managed system, and in my mind perhaps the best in the country. Even if that were not the case, and there were no signs or maps and no attempt had been made whatever to assist riders on said trail system it is NOT the fault of the managers of that trail system if people get lost, injured or even unfortunatley DIE out there.

Let me make this perfectly clear. It is your responsibility to take care of yourself. Always. Not just when you are out riding your ATV. But especially when you are out riding your ATV you need to be capable of dealing with emergencies. If you ride with other people then you ALSO take on the responsibility to take care of them in an emergency. I find it incredibly ironic that many people want unlimited freedom to come and go as they please, use public land at will, but are always on the lookout for a scapegoat to take the blame for their actions.

If you are an adult capable of making a decison to spend thousands of dollars on an ATV and then go to a place that is world renown for being the biggest baddest longest coolest trail on earth, then you are certainly capable of being responsible for the simple abilitiy to navigate your way along said trail. And I mean in the dark, on a rainy night, with wild animals chasing you and absolutely NO trail markings at all.

You have no excuse. The GPS system that we have in place is capable of giving you incredible accuracy for a few hundred dollars. Topographic maps are nothing new and getting them is easy and they are cheap also. Yes you will need to invest some time learning how these things work, how to read a map, how to create and follow waypoints on a GPS.

Almost EVERY so called "Trail Map" I have ever seen is at something like 1:100,000 resolution. This is a VERY poor map. It often is missing tons of details and many many man made objects like roads. The result is that a person comes to an intersection that has 4 or 5 possible exits and the map they are holding shows 3 exits. Invest in a real map, they cost less than the gas you are putting in the ATV.

Learn to read the map, learn to navigate, learn to use a compass, buy a GPS and learn how to use it before you go out on a ride and put yourself and your riding friends at risk. You can do all of this and never leave your own home. Learn to figure distance using your odometer and the scale that is on the bottom of the map. Learn to calculate coordinates in UTM (its easy, really it is).

Gary (ATVUtah.com) has gone to GREAT effort and expense and spent years making this type of information available for at least one trail, the Paiute. And guess what? He GIVES it away, for FREE. Why? Because people need it. The low resolution maps are fine for making basic planning and references but are not a substitute for REAL maps.

If you look at the forums on ATVUtah.com you will find an entire section on OHV navigation filled with GPS coordinates and details for navigating the trails in Utah. He also has written a book that has GPS coordinates all along the Paiute inside of it, and you can take it on the trail.

Similar information is widely avalable for many many other trails across the country. Use GOOGLE, it rules. Spend a few more bucks, make yourself comfortable that no matter what happens you can take care of yourself and your friends.

At the very least get a list of GPS coordinates of major intersections along the trail and program them into your GPS. This can be a life saver. At least you'll know, (on a rainy night even) whether the intersection you are sitting at is even where you think it is on the map.

If you get lost on your ATV, that is YOUR fault and only YOUR fault. If you are incapable of taking care of yourself I recommend that you stay home. If you are incapable of taking care of me when I'm injured I really don't want to ride with you. AND if you are inclined to blame other people because you got lost, I don't even want to know you.

I think this applies to ANY outdoor activity, it is a real world out there and it can be dangerous.

[derstuka]

Two words my friend: "Personal Responsibility!" It goes a long ways past ATVing, it has to do with taking care of yourself, and being responsible for your own ass. That is the main reason why so many trails get closed, where there are so many rules and regulations, so some ass-clown cannot blame someone else for something that was obviously their fault. :frustrated: One major thing that is wrong with the US, and the rest of the world.

Wait a minute, why not just do whatever you like, however you like, that way you can just sue someone else for damages and make out like a bandit!

[accadacca]

Well put RedMan. I don't know what else to say. It is people like this that get things shut down and give everyone else a bad name. I hate to rag on.....but people like this probably don't know which hole is for fuel. :frustrated:

[donny h]

Long after all of this happened one of the individuals on this ill fated ride decided to place blame for their problems on the trail system and the managers thereof, making accusations that the maps of the area were poor and the signage was poor that their friend was in worse shape because of those things.


Is this a lawsuit or just noise at this point?

If they are lobbying for better signage or trails or something then that may be reasonable, I don't know...

If it's a lawsuit, then it's all about money, and it makes me wonder if the individual who sues really believes it was someone elses fault, or if some ambulance chasing shyster has filled his head with promises of riches.

Remember when someone sued the park service a few years back for a fatal fall from a Zion trail. The park service stated flat out that if they lost the suit, they would close the trail. The service won the suit, but does that mean we are one flaky jury award away from losing access?

A couple in Ca. won a big judgement against a county WILDERNESS park for a cougar attack on an unattended six year old, they closed the county parks entirely for a while, then banned kids, now you must sign a waiver to get in.

I guess the reoccurring theme is that it just blows me away anyone can step into wilderness and think for one nano-second that anyone but themselves are responsible for their own safety.

[dbessee]

I guess the reoccurring theme is that it just blows me away anyone can step into wilderness and think for one nano-second that anyone but themselves are responsible for their own safety.

Amen! IBM should have never changed there 70's motto: THINK (and they used all caps)

Besides, making others responsible for your condition is voluntarily giving away your freedom.

[RedMan]

My immediate concern is that these types of complaints elicit a response from the managers of the trail and they actually try to fix the problem.

This results in a response like "We can't afford more signs, so I guess we'll have less trail".

A typical government response to a vocal minority.

I wish they would respond with "How about you stop whining and be a responsible adult and stop trying to make the rest of the world pay for your mistakes!", and "100,000 people rode this trail last year, at least one died and many were injured so maybe this is not the right place for you to ride."

This cuts across every activity that occurs on public lands. Too many people believe that the only thing they need to know is "Dial 911" and someone else will then be responsible for their problem. There have even been lawsuits WON under charges of slow response by rescue teams.